Cacti

[ShaneS]

These two shots were taken in Usery Mountain Park outside of Phoenix Arizona. I have converted them to black and white and would like your opinion on the conversions as well as the overall composition of the shots.

The first is a portrait of a lone Saguaro and I wonder if it seems to bright overall?



I really like the composition of this next shot but will grudgingly be put in my place if you disagree as long as you tell me why I also wonder if the contrails in the sky ruin the shot and how/if it is worth trying to remove them?



I tried to process these shots as a set with similar tones and wonder if they work as a pair to you or not?

[Shadowman]

Nice images.

[IzzieK]

Shane -- the first one's background is a little harsh in the eyes at the top and too plain for my taste actually...the second one is OK with the contrails there as it forms a part of the scenario overall. It is not really a thin contrail anymore so that is fine. I like the second one best though my mind is playing funny havoc on that big main saguaro.

[Mike Buckley]

Upon learning that you were planning your trip to the area, I remember forbidding you to return without photos of the giant saguaro cacti. That's because I knew you would do such a great job of photographing them. Before getting into the details, I just have to mention that both images are terrific.

Now, the details that you asked about and otherwise mentioned...

The first photo is not of a lone saguaro; there are others that nicely complement the subject. That image isn't too bright at all (nor too dark). My only complaint, a very slight one, is that the foreground area in this image seems just a tiny bit too contrasty or overly sharpened to my taste. That may be due to automated processing that took place when being downsized for display on the Internet; the original may be perfect.

Both images work very well as a pair. Both conversions are terrific.

You really like the composition of the second one? I should say so! Great low perspective with the different type of cactus in the lower right area providing interest and a three-dimensional feel. The contrail connects the two saguaro cacti very nicely; the image would be weaker in my mind without it.

Try to plan a return to the area some day when the saguaro cacti are blooming. That comment doesn't make these photos any less enjoyable. Instead, the blossoms offer another photographic opportunity.

[Brownbear]

I like the 1st image but I especially love the 2nd image! I love the sky for all the wispy contrails. (I love skies) I think it would also be beautiful without the contrails but only for the feeling of pure stark beauty.

I bet these are also gorgeous in colour.

[ShaneS]

Thank you John, Izzie, Mike & Christina.

Mike, I struggled with the sharpness, structure (a Nik processing term) and sharpness of the foreground in the first so I appreciate your comments and will revisit.

As far as the second image goes, I'm glad that my heart wasn't playing a trick on me in terms of that composition and that the sky isn't as big of an issue a I had worried it was. After the sun came up is was hard to find a patch of sky that wasn't streaked with contrails. I'm guessing that is due to the proximity of Sky Harbor airport.

I could walk the trails of that park every morning and never get bored Mike and I am so grateful that you told me about it. It really is a beautiful place.

Izzie, it doesn't take much to get your imagination off and running does it?

Christina, I will try to find some time tonight to post color versions to satisfy your curiosity. I have a couple more shots of sunrise scenery that I'm working on but that will be in a different thread so stay tuned.

Thanks again everyone!

[kdoc856]

Nice shots, Shane. I tend to live on the dark side, so I probably would reduce the exposure a tad, and I suspect if you really nudge the highlights hard, you can reduce the reflected light and bring out some nice detail in the sky. I love the balance you've composed in the second shot.

[Mike Buckley]

I struggled with the sharpness, structure (a Nik processing term)

I'm actually familiar with the concept of structure used by Nik even though I've still never used the program. I learned about it from a Jason Odell ebook about using Capture NX2 to make monochromes. He explained a way to accomplish the same look using High Pass sharpening in Overlay mode at a relatively low level of opacity. Based on my experience with all of that, it's very easy to overdo the use of structure.

[flashback]

Shane,
The first image is too harsh for me. There appears to be a great deal of detail in the sky and if you can bring that out I think it would improve that image.
I like much more the second image, exactly what I would expect to see in the deserts of the southwest. Again though I think there is more detail in the sky that could be made stronger.

[ShaneS]

Thanks to all for the additional comments. I have gone back and made some adjustments to the first image to tone down the brightness a bit and reduce the contrasty foreground. I also took the opportunity to bring out more texture in the clouds and to remove the lower skinny contrails as they annoyed me



Is this an improvement? Should I have gone farther?

As always, your opinions are appreciated.

[IzzieK]

Thanks to all for the additional comments. I have gone back and made some adjustments to the first image to tone down the brightness a bit and reduce the contrasty foreground. I also took the opportunity to bring out more texture in the clouds and to remove the lower skinny contrails as they annoyed me



Is this an improvement? Should I have gone farther?

As always, your opinions are appreciated.

Yes. Much better, this one.

[Mike Buckley]

I think the revision is wonderful, though I also still like the first version. The two are different, not right and wrong.

Your revision is a good example of why one of the joys of working with monochromes for me is the range of subtle variations that can be considered that doesn't seem to exist when working with color images. It actually doesn't make any sense to me that that statement could be true, so maybe it's my own inaccurate perception that has to do with perhaps my greater affinity for appreciating the subtle changes in monochromes more than in color photos.

[ShaneS]

Thanks Izzie and Mike. Mike, I think that my revision of my shot of Camelback Mountain is an example of the same subtle variations that you find so attractive in monochrome image making.

You comment and my experience on the last couple of day in PP has confirmed why I often get paralyzed by the variety of choices available when editing an image. I feel like my processing skills have come a long way but I am sometimes am unsure of which presentation best suits an image. I know that a lot of this comes down to personal preference but I feel that I still have a ways to go to develop a style of imagery and presentation that is consistent.

My exploration along those lines is awfully rewarding although a bit frustrating at times as my inner artist is a very harsh critic