Twin Falls

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

You're still in the stage that you're not confident about how you want your images to look. Completely understandable.

Compare your last and next to last images:

• My choice would be to use the whitewater in the last image and everything else in the next to last image.
• Though the shadow areas in your last image are brighter, they don't reveal more detail; the same detail is present in the shadow areas of the next to last image, only not as bright. Don't confuse increased brightness with increased detail. Similarly, don't confuse decreased brightness with decreased detail.
• Compare the histograms of the two images. Notice that the data in the histogram of the next to last image extends closer to the left and right sides. That is one representation explaining why the last image looks comparatively flat. Always check your histogram! If the data doesn't extend to the left and right sides, lower your white point and raise your black point at least to determine if that helps. If not, that's fine but only if you don't want any true blacks or whites.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Thank you. I can see that the histogram in the next to last image extends further. So I will review and see how that came about. I applied the curves tool selectively to the water so I can't figure out in my head the effect on the rest of the image, especially because I erased the curves adjustment from the rest of the image.

I applied a levels adjustment, lifting the midtones to the canyon wall (only) which would lighten the midtones of the wall making the image brighter. Would a better approach to bring out the detail to lighten the shadows only? And perhaps I should click selection points on that curves tool so just the areas in shadow are lighter? Or is a better approach to bring out detail to simply lift the exposure or lighten the shadows, using those tools?

*Or is it as simple as looking at the histogram and seeing that the highlights are lighter in the previous image and adjusting that portion of the canyon wall? Or selecting the other portion of the image and adjusting the white and black points?

Thank you.

Christina,

You're still in the stage that you're not confident about how you want your images to look. Completely understandable.

Compare your last and next to last images:

• My choice would be to use the whitewater in the last image and everything else in the next to last image.
• Though the shadow areas in your last image are brighter, they don't reveal more detail; the same detail is present in the shadow areas of the next to last image, only not as bright. Don't confuse increased brightness with increased detail. Similarly, don't confuse decreased brightness with decreased detail.
• Compare the histograms of the two images. Notice that the data in the histogram of the next to last image extends closer to the left and right sides. That is one representation explaining why the last image looks comparatively flat. Always check your histogram! If the data doesn't extend to the left and right sides, lower your white point and raise your black point at least to determine if that helps. If not, that's fine but only if you don't want any true blacks or whites.

[AB26]

Agreed with Shane.

Christina I cannot explain to you how I did this because I use ACDSee.
It is a combination of mid tone, contrast, exposure and sharpening.
The more detail you can get in the water the better it looks to me. Just my personal opinion.

Lovely shots!

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

Your voluminous questions are about "how to." The issue is that you don't yet know what you want to see. Until that happens with consistency, the "how to" doesn't matter. That's because you can achieve a desired result using any number of methods.

I suggested keeping an eye on the histogram for a couple reasons. As you gradually make small, incremental changes to an image, it's easy to fail to realize that the image has changed quite a lot (sort of like watching a young child every day growing up as opposed to visiting the child only every three months). Even if you don't have a clear idea of how you want the image to look, you can use the histogram as a guide or reminder. As an example, if you tend to like images that have histograms displaying data all the way to the left and right sides, you can keep an eye on the histogram to ensure that you always retain that look.

In that context, it's probably important to recognize that the histogram had changed quite a lot and you didn't know that had happened. Always being aware of the histogram will almost certainly improve your post-processing abilities.

Personally, I use the Levels tool only to adjust the black and white points and I always use the Curve tool by placing points along the curve to put the control totally in my own hands.

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

Notice that the black and white points in both treatments by Andre are approximately the same. Also notice that the white point is well to the left of what it could be. That information gives me the impression that Andre knew exactly what he wanted to see and that he wanted both treatments to be relatively the same.

[AB26]

I suggested keeping an eye on the histogram for a couple reasons.

Christina,

200% agreed with Mike. Keeping an eye on the histogram is what makes it possible to fine tune an image to whatever you want it to look like in post.

[Brownbear]

Andre,

Thank you very much for taking the time to show me your edits. You brought out the detail beautifully. The scene is darker than my personal preference but only because I know the true beauty of this place and what it looks like, and I need to learn how to bring this out in my post processing. Truly appreciated.

Mike,

Thank you as always for sharing and advising. Hopefully this will get easier with time. I promise to view the histogram from now on while post processing. Below is one last try... I think it is better but parts of the canyon walls are still too dark. At one point I had the right end of the histogram further to the right but I lost it somewhere before the final steps. At least I know that I prefer parts of the image to be lighter! I have saved the file to work on at a later date, at my leisure with a fresh view.



Thank you Andre & Mike!

[Mike Buckley]

the canyon walls are still too dark.

I'm reasonably confident that many if not most people would disagree with you.

Keep in mind that if you brighten all of the darkest tones, doing so in effect reduces the dynamic range of the image (reduces the amount of data displayed along the X-axis of the histogram).

Also consider that canyons are renowned for having dark areas because no matter the position of the sun, there are always places that don't receive direct sunlight. So, I would be willing to bet that you're trying to post-process the image to be in keeping with your memory of the light and that your memory is probably wrong.

[ShaneS]

Christina;

I like your final edit and I will reiterate that ou need to print it and hang it You've come a long way baby!

As far as this statement goes:

When it comes to my landscape attempts I'm still learning what I like and don't like.

You just need to take a deep breath and listen to your gut about what makes a nice image (as I write I'm thinking that I need to take my own advice more often...).

Rules and guidelines are good but you can follow every darned one of them and get a technically perfect image (& edit) but it doesn't 'sing' to you. First and foremost your should find the ones that sing to you and then work on the cropping, editing, etc. Maybe you will have a keeper and maybe you will want to go for a re-shoot because it just isn't working but there really isn't a learning curve to finding an image that sings to you.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now...and you are still making me homesick with your images of the beautiful nature in and around my hometown

[AndrewMcD]

Andre,

........ The scene is darker than my personal preference but only because I know the true beauty of this place and what it looks like.......

I appreciate this struggle between what one experiences onsite when taking the photograph and what works best as an image. I find it interesting that when people take the time to do an edit of images I post that I sometimes have a gut reaction that feels like "but that isn't what I was striving for". I think listening to that gut reaction is very important to developing our personal style. On the other hand having others alter and shift my images, or listening to their suggestions has also helped me in how I see a site prior to taking the photograph. There is a feedback loop for me; the more I listen the better I see. Now having just reread what I wrote I don't mean in anyway shape or form that you don't listen and learn; the beautiful images in this thread are evidence to the contrary. What I mean to express, yes, maybe I'm getting to a point here is that you should continue to be true to what YOU want your images to convey while also incorporating the lessons learned from others into how you imagine the image. Sheesh...........that was rather more convoluted that I had hoped. Keep up the good work, I always enjoy your threads!

Andrew

[Brownbear]

Thank you Mike, Shane and Andrew!

Mike... I have observed that all the edits of my waterfall shot by others have darker canyon walls. The next time I visit I will sit and look at all the zones objectively... A little further down the river are some pools that others including I have swam in. So perhaps my memory of that sunlit pool with beautiful green (albeit frigid waters - one turns blue in about 3 minutes but once one is frozen the water doesn't feel so cold) is clouding my judgement.

Shane... Thank you so much for getting on your soap box... Truly appreciated. Does it sing to me is a great thought to keep first and foremost in my mind. I suspect that thinking those thoughts will help me with my culling process. I will share more photos of the area throughout the year. I have visited Hawaii a few times... (Oahu and Kauai) It's a beautiful place that I would love to visit again, this time with a camera in hand.

Andrew... Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and provide me with some great advice. Truly appreciated, all the more so because I can tell that your words come from your heart. I will keep working on my landscapes and I'm sure that my vision will improve with time.. How could it not with all the wonderful advice and feedback we receive on this forum. I enjoy your threads and I also learn from them. Thank you for sharing your images so others like I can learn from them.

[Mike Buckley]

So perhaps my memory of that sunlit pool with beautiful green (albeit frigid waters - one turns blue in about 3 minutes but once one is frozen the water doesn't feel so cold) is clouding my judgement.

It's fair to say that your judgement was clouded before you entered the frigid water.

[Brownbear]

Well, I'm six years older (and wiser) and I've likely turned into a wimp as a result of living in tropical climes for a while.

I will say that the waters are an absolutely exquisite emerald green and crystal clear. On a hot day very hard to resist...!

It's fair to say that your judgement was clouded before you entered the frigid water.

[FrankMi]

Hi Christina, I've been watching this thread for several days now because I've had some ideas of my own that I feel would help convey what I think you are looking for in this scene.

May I ask, of all the images posted in this thread by both you and others, which image is closest to what you are trying to bring out? Also, if you could change 'that' image, how would it be different?

[Wavelength]

Excellent images; great mood

[Brownbear]

Hi Frank,

When you have time I would love to hear your ideas.

I prefer the last image that I posted of the waterfall (#5) for the lighter canyon walls and the light on the leaves combined with the darker waterfall that Mike posted - that I tried to mimic. I adore all the detail that Andre brought out in the canyon walls but the image is too dark for my personal taste.

I would like these waterfalls to look like paradise (beautiful emerald crystal clear green water), lush green foliage and of course the gorgeous waterfall . The next time I photograph them I will try it on a sunny afternoon when more light falls in the canyon. I really like high-key images for the light mood and I hope to try that with this scene one day.

Although I do like the rich colors and darker feel of the light on that day, the image is just a little too dark and moody, as is. So if I try to be brief and to the point I would like the background of the image to be lighter in tone and mood, BUT not as light as the 3rd image in the first set I posted. I feel that I killed the mood and natural look of the place in that image.

Hi Christina, I've been watching this thread for several days now because I've had some ideas of my own that I feel would help convey what I think you are looking for in this scene.

May I ask, of all the images posted in this thread by both you and others, which image is closest to what you are trying to bring out? Also, if you could change 'that' image, how would it be different?

[Mike Buckley]

I will try it on a sunny afternoon when more light falls in the canyon.

If that results in the sun being in a different position that is more to your liking, that's fine. However, if you're thinking in terms of more direct light, that scene will generally be photographed most effectively in diffuse light created by a cloudy sky.

[Brownbear]

Frank,

I love the look and the light and the colours of Kevin's waterfalls in this thread (except the darker image #4) as they seem true to the natural beauty of my falls, on a not so sunny day. Easier to show via his beautiful images then describe my thoughts.

Andre, Don't Look


Nandakumar...

Thank you!

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Yes, that is what I'm thinking. I'm trying to look for and use diffuse light in my images, and I understand that cloudy and bright is good... However this part of the canyon is dark so I'm hopeful that a little more sunshine than on the day I took these shots will be there.

If that results in the sun being in a different position that is more to your liking, that's fine. However, if you're thinking in terms of more direct light, that scene will generally be photographed most effectively in diffuse light created by a cloudy sky.

[FrankMi]

OK Christina, I don't want to disappoint you but I'm going to take a chance. Andre's images are different, his scene is significantly simpler and has different lighting involved. Your image is busier making it more difficult to control. I may not be able to get close enough for discriminating tastes.

If this move in the right direction for you, I'll send you the PSE file so that you can see each of the steps I took. I actually made two copies. One with the silky water and one with the water a bit more natural by merging with another image you had posted where you said that you liked that one. At the time I thought that you were referring to the water but now I realize that you were referring to the colouring of the foliage.

Thank you for letting me have some fun with your images!

This is the second one I tried. This one I softened a bit:



And this is the one I did while waiting for permission to play and before I had a clearer idea of what you were shooting for:



I hope these move the images closer to your vision!