Best inexpensive used DLSR model for college class

[plugsnpixels]

My daughter is taking a photo class this summer and needs an adjustable DSLR. Believe it or not, I've never owned one (it's all about post-processing and plug-ins for me)!

I have a local used camera store that told me via email they have a selection of used Canon and Nikon equipment (both with 18-55 zoom included) for between $250-350 and do some repairs on site. B&H also has a nice selection, but they are 3000 miles away and all that comes with that.

I haven't gotten an exact store inventory list and haven't gone over to look in person yet, but I would appreciate comments about what models to seek out and which to avoid, and why.

Also, would a micro four-thirds camera pass the "manual adjustment for class" test? Since we are going to keep the camera after the class I would personally prefer the smaller model that I assume is better than the prosumer Nikon Coolpix I already use, and my daughter would probably prefer the smaller size as well.

Thanks in advance!

[Shadowman]

If the class supply list states DSLR then the micro four-thirds would not apply. Regarding the purchase of a camera why not go with the department chain offers? With Father's Day approaching there are likely to be sales offerings, prices might be $200.00 more but sometimes extras (such as camera bag, second lens, tripod) are included. Plus a better warranty period than what is typically offered in used camera stores.

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks John. The "might be $200.00 more" part keeps me from doing that ;-). Plus we're good on the camera bag and tripods already.

I know the camera store manager from when he was a student at the university where I work, so maybe that will help.

[NorthernFocus]

The old Nikon D40 is an excellent camera to learn with. It can be fully manually controlled and is pretty inexpensive. If she has small hands it is also fairly small. The semi-pro D200 can probably be had for $100 more or D300 for yet another $100. They are excellent, compatible with any Nikon lenses, but are much larger bodies.

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks Dan, price seems about right in general. Will make note.

[inkista]

If the requirement for the class is a camera that has full manual controls for exposure settings and an interchangeable lens mount, than either a dSLR or a mirrorless is likely to be ok. But if the requirement is for a dSLR, then a mirrorless simply isn't one of those. You probably need to get clarification from the teacher on this one.

As for purchasing used cameras, most of the used dSLR bodies that are in the $250-$300 price range are going to be older models--typically three or four generations back, so you do want to make sure they haven't been beat to hell. If you can get "shutter actuation" counts, think of them like mileage on a car. 10k/year is a good average figure--higher than that and the camera's likely to have been thrashed in usage; lower than that and it's been babied a bit. Also be aware that these are digital electronics, so think of it like buying a three or four generation old computer or cellphone. How much device-life are you willing to trade off for a lower pricetag?

If this is a one-time class and your daughter's not sure this is a career or full-time thing for her, than an entry-level body is probably the right place to start. If she's determined this will be her calling and she wants to be a full-time photography student, then possibly starting with a higher-end dual-wheel controlled body (a Canon XXD model, or a Nikon D90/D7000) might make slightly more sense, even with a very old model, simply because she'll advance to need higher-end features more rapidly than, say, a weekend hobbyist would. For a serious dedicated full-time shooter, I'd say a used/refurbished 60D might be the sweet value spot right now for Canon, but that's probably twice your budget without lenses.

Wikipedia, btw, has "camera templates", which are tables that list model numbers by generation and tier, so you can see how high up or how old a model is. Here's the one for Canon, and the one for Nikon.

My general advice to someone looking to get into any interchangeable lens system camera is that it's expensive. It's not like P&S cameras where you buy the camera, a battery some cards and you're done. System cameras are versatile because there are, well, systems, and you have to buy other bits of that system to make full use of the camera. You can get a body+kit for $300. But throw in a cheap telephoto, a cheap fast prime, a bag, a couple filters, a good tripod, and a flash, and it gets to be $1000 pretty fast. Throw in GOOD lenses, and it goes up even more rapidly. I tend to say the budget expectations should be closer to US$2000 for a good basic setup, and that's either dSLR or mirrorless.

[plugsnpixels]

Kathy, thanks for the incredible camera template resource! That's a huge help.

I used to do photography on a more professional level back in the '90s but am now in IT with photography mainly a hobby (mostly to illustrate the effects of plug-ins on my website). At this point I don't think my daughter is going to pursue it, though it will be nice to have a "more decent" camera around. I don't expect heavy usage of it going forward.

And being in IT I understand what you mean about old tech, though I am happily writing you from a late-2010 iMac ;-)

[William W]

It’s best to tic-tac with the teacher IF the requirements are not clearly articulated.
I’ve taught structured classes in colleges and high schools and a DSLR was always specified (as opposed to a mirror-less camera), and that was to address more easily covering the curriuclum in a classroom situation (i.e. many people and not one on one)

If a DSLR is clearly specified and there is no specification regarding the lens(es) then it would be my expectation that any model from about 2004/5 would suffice – so in Canon a 20D or 350D ~ 400D onwards with the 18 to 55 lens attached. If you are looking at Canon, then one of the IMAGE STABILIZATION versions of that lens would be better value and probably not cost you any more.

The biggest consideration (already mentioned) is the usage – the number of actuations – whilst the outside of the camera can be some good indication of how well (or poorly) the camera has been treated one is really dependent upon the honesty of the seller to indicate the number of shutter clicks of these older cameras: and the number that you will get from any one camera is a mixed bag too; so one has to know that with any second hand camera it is a low, but still a reasonable possibility that the Shutter Mechanism will have to be replaced. Buying from a store - maybe if you can get a 90 day warranty would be a good idea.

We still have and use a 20D; a 400D and also a 350D - and all three cameras are still performing well. The 350D I bought from a loan office (pawn shop) with a 18 to 55 on it and I use that for taking pictures at sea, with sea spray and that kind of turmoil – so far it has not failed me, I think I paid around $AUS 120.00 for it, that was back about 2009. The point is I could probably sell that 350D and lens for $50 today, thus I getting 5 years for $50 – 10 bucks per year is a really cheap camera and lens: so from that aspect buying older is somewhat better value.

The other aspect to consider is your daughter’s headspace and her maturity and experience in dealing with her peers: classmates can be nasty to those others whose gear is not the newest, biggest and ‘the best’. I have seen this. A good teacher can counter this to some extent, but once students’ words are spoken same cannot be retracted – so as additional advice to you, if she were my daughter I would make her aware of these facts of life.

WW

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks Bill, I will surely "check the odometer ;-). A traditional-design DSLR is probably what we'll get. It's a beginning class anyway.

As for "judgment by technology", I understand that from the IT world. It's the technical equivalent of clothing or sneakers. And from her guitar class some time ago (I had her covered there ;-) ).

[Manfred M]

The community college that I have taken some photography related courses specifies the minimum requirements on their website.

Frankly; they require a high end consumer camera as a minimum requirement, as listed on their webpage.

http://algonquinphotography.com/faq/

I strongly suggest you check the program requrements before buying any camera.

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks Manfred, the requirements are pretty vague as stated ("adjustable DSLR"). I suppose it's safest to go with the traditional SLR design, though we may try to email the instructor in advance (class starts June 9).

I personally always thought keeping the old school SLR style for the transition to digital was overkill and technically unnecessary, and the new mirrorless styles seem to bear this out.

[Manfred M]

Thanks Manfred, the requirements are pretty vague as stated ("adjustable DSLR"). I suppose it's safest to go with the traditional SLR design, though we may try to email the instructor in advance (class starts June 9).

I personally always thought keeping the old school SLR style for the transition to digital was overkill and technically unnecessary, and the new mirrorless styles seem to bear this out.

I can't say I agree, or at least not yet. My latest acqusition was the Panasonic GX7, which is a higher end mirrorless camera; that I've had for about 6 weeks or so. I also considered the Olympus line, and was unimpressed versus the Panny. I had also shot the Sony Nex-7, another mirrorless camera, and again it has some advantages and disadvantages. I have a couple of mFT lenses from my video camera and wanted a mFT body so that I could travel light.

From a shooting standpoint, I find that the electronic viewfinder and autofocus still lag the performance of higher end DSLR cameras (have have both a D90 (which I don't use all that often any more) and a D800, which is my "go to" camera. Will they get there, I think so, but wouldn't want to guess at when (or even if), but I suspect it will take another iteration or two before the technology beats the classical SLR capabilities. It will take that happening for the pros to switch to a newer technology, and until that happens I don't expect the general acceptance to be there.

[plugsnpixels]

Good points, thanks. I miss the optical viewfinder from my 35mm days (haven't looked through one while shooting for over 15 years). Same goes for manual focus!

[Manfred M]

Good points, thanks. I miss the optical viewfinder from my 35mm days (haven't looked through one while shooting for over 15 years). Same goes for manual focus!

Frankly, I use those features all the time on my D800. I almost never use the screen on the camera to compose and do have a few manual focus lenses that can't be used any other way.

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks all for your advice! Folks here and on other forums have been wonderful and it's appreciated. I've been taking photos since 1974 but haven't researched a purchase this hard since the days of film cameras. I focus mainly on software (Photoshop plug-ins) now.

For the summer my daughter will use the camera for class then I expect to be using it after that because (at this point) she is more into art than photography, and I never owned a DLSR...

I'm not a camera snob like I am a computer snob (ha!) so I was open to most any brand. I did my research online (forums, stores, review sites, including repeatedly referring to the "Template:" charts for Nikon, Canon, etc. on Wikipedia which are very helpful as they show in graphic form camera models, level of user and release dates). I talked with a photo teacher colleague and I even visited my local university town used camera store this afternoon!

Moments ago I pulled the trigger on a used (9) Canon T3/zoom from B&H for $100+ less than I could've gotten it for locally. I almost went for the same thing from the same vendor refurbed, but it was $5 more than I had on PayPal ;-). Maybe that will be a plus should I wish to sell it down the road.

I wasn't totally comfortable buying circa-10 year-old technology, even at the savings and recommendations, since I work in IT and I wouldn't go buy a laptop or desktop that old. The inclusion of video capability in late model equipment is a plus too.

[William W]

That's a better value for money deal than I got on the 350D from the pawn shop.

Bravo

[plugsnpixels]

Thanks! I happened to be looking at B&H's used cameras in low-to-high price order once more today and around about page 4 there it was! Further on is (still, I believe) the same model refurbished for $320. Currently left is a Rebel XSi (8+) for the same price I paid for the T3, and it is a few years older.

I already found the PDF manual online... ;-)

[William W]

You also have a much bigger second hand market place, up where you live.

[plugsnpixels]

Good point!

[inkista]

Congrats! And glad the Wikipedia tables were useful for you. The T3 is a great choice. It's only mildly "dumbed down" from the XXXD dRebels, and the only features I think of as "missing" vs. the XXXDs of the same era are the flash master in the pop-up, and an infrared remote sensor, both of which can be gotten around with cheap radio accessories (e.g., the Yongnuo RF-603ii triggers and the like) these days.