Using Two Cameras to Shoot an Event - what's important to know?

[Gorilla]

Hi there,

I'll soon be shooting an event, and for the first time I will be using two cameras to do so. I own a Canon 7D and rented a 5D Mark III. I own a f/2.8L 70-200 and a f/4L 24-70. I also own a 580 EX ii and rented a 600 EX. I have a few questions and would be grateful for any input you might offer.

1) I want to make sure the pictures I take on one camera "match" the other. Any advice on how the settings on the 5D Mark III and 7D should be adjusted so that the pictures look acceptably similar (particularly other than the basic stuff such as metering mode).

2) During the reception, I plan to use the wider lens on the 5D and the longer lens on the 7D. My thinking: 5D is full frame, so I might as well get the most bang for my buck and go wide. Also, my wider lens is an f/4, and the 5D MarkIII has great high ISO/low light shooting capabilities to help compensate. Does this make to sense?

3) Any other info you think I should know regarding using two cameras, generally? These two cameras in particular?

4) What about the Speedlites? Anybody use both the 600 and 580, and have advice on how to use them to shoot pictures at the same event. Again, I'm especially interested in how they might react differently from one another, any pitfalls that could affect how well the pictures from the two cameras, using different speedlites, "match".

5) I'm thinking that, during the reception, I'll use the 600 EX on the 5D w/ the f/4 and the 580 EX on the 7D w/ the 2.8L. But I'm wondering if it might be smarter to put the more powerful 600 on the body attached to the longer lens. Any thoughts?

Thank you!

[Adrian]

I have both of these cameras. 7D used mainly by my son.

I see your logic on the lenses, but as 7D is a crop and sticking the 70-200L on it (excellent lens by the way) may mean that you are too close. Depends somewhat on the kind of "event". It sounds like a wedding or similar occasion where you will be close to the guests. 70-200 does a flattering job on portraits on a 5DIII. Lovely soft Bokeh and very sharp where you want it.

The 24-70 (I have the 2,8L version) is not all that wide (and obviously less so on the 7D). If you really need a wide angle, maybe rent a 16-35L, which is excellent and light (for an L).

I am not sure that the cameras are you limitation: more the lenses.

I have the 580 speed light but not the 600 so can't help there, other than to say I avoid hot shoe flash when using fast lenses and the 5DIII as it works extremely well in low light. For the portrait work I do I prefer either ambient light or a studio set up. Most times with on camera flash my (limited) skill level gives me shadows that I dislike (even using the built in diffuser and indirect flash). I think it takes a good flea of practice to get good results with on camera flash.

Take spare batteries.

Beware of how the 5DIII handles card switching when you take one out. You can find yourself using the SD card instead of the CF.

[William W]

I'll soon be shooting an event, and for the first time I will be using two cameras to do so. I own a Canon 7D and rented a 5D Mark III. I own a f/2.8L 70-200 and a f/4L 24-70. I also own a 580 EX ii and rented a 600 EX.

What is “The Event?” ( and time of day loctation description etc)

1) I want to make sure the pictures I take on one camera "match" the other. Any advice on how the settings on the 5D Mark III and 7D should be adjusted so that the pictures look acceptably similar (particularly other than the basic stuff such as metering mode).

Capturing? (A) JPEG SOOC; (B) JPEG + PP (C) raw (D) raw + JPEG?
If PP using what Post Production Program are you using?

2) During the reception, I plan to use the wider lens on the 5D and the longer lens on the 7D. My thinking: 5D is full frame, so I might as well get the most bang for my buck and go wide. Also, my wider lens is an f/4, and the 5D MarkIII has great high ISO/low light shooting capabilities to help compensate. Does this make to sense?

Is the “wider lens” the: EF 24 to 70 F/4L IS USM?
Will the Subject at the reception be moving? How fast?

3) Any other info you think I should know regarding using two cameras, generally? These two cameras in particular?

Time and Date sync them.
Work out how you are going to carry them. I use two cameras often, but , do you have battery grips?

4) What about the Speedlites? Anybody use both the 600 and 580, and have advice on how to use them to shoot pictures at the same event. Again, I'm especially interested in how they might react differently from one another, any pitfalls that could affect how well the pictures from the two cameras, using different speedlites, "match".

Then pair will be fine working together, but the devil is in the detail:
What are you using the Speedlites for? Key Flash; Flash as Fill, both and are you using any Light Modifiers if so what?

5) I'm thinking that, during the reception, I'll use the 600 EX on the 5D w/ the f/4 and the 580 EX on the 7D w/ the 2.8L. But I'm wondering if it might be smarter to put the more powerful 600 on the body attached to the longer lens. Any thoughts?

In reality the 600 is not that much ‘more powerful’ – work it out. I would focus on the criterion of recycle speed and how fast you intend to shoot with which lens and the factor of the 580MkII possibly overheating at fast shooting speeds or HSS. I think the 600 has better credentials in these respects, though I have not used one. I'd be interested in first hand experienced comments apropos a 600 at Event Shooting, especially: HSS; general Recycle Time and any Overheating issues.

WW

[loosecanon]

renting a camera - just make sure you understand its working before the event - too late to try to set modes etc at the event. Make sure last user has not "customised" it.
Indoor events with flash - I find Lightroom adjustment brush brilliant for removing the effect of flash falloff at events, where people are often a different distance from the flash and hence illumination.

[Saorsa]

Check to see if connecting the cameras directly to your computer with a USB cable will set the time (Nikon Transfer does this for Nikon cameras). If so, make a couple of dry shots at a wall and download them to the computer and all times will be synced.

It's often useful to have a small digital recorder to record comments.

[Gorilla]

What is “The Event?” ( and time of day loctation description etc)

It is a large, lavish bar mitzvah. 2 hours of indoor luncheon following ceremony, including half hour of staged portraits of the 13 year old with the torah (the scroll containing the old testament). Later, (late afternoon) 6 hours of a) outdoor family portraits b) various adult and kid sub-sections of the events (cocktail hour, games, dancing, candle lighting ceremony, mega-group portrait and more)

Capturing? (A) JPEG SOOC; (B) JPEG + PP (C) raw (D) raw + JPEG?
If PP using what Post Production Program are you using?

I always have captured in RAW, only. I use Aperture, primarily, for post-production. (tho I'm contemplating a switch, which I haven't researches as yet)

Is the “wider lens” the: EF 24 to 70 F/4L IS USM?
Will the Subject at the reception be moving? How fast?

The wider lens is the f/4L IS USM. As you might guess, subjects in the evening reception will be moving quite fast at times. (dancing, kids running). In the past - armed only with a 7D and the two lenses described - I used the f/4 24-70 and relied pretty heavily on my flash. I use a Gary Fong light sphere, which is an awesome diffuser for event work. (But outdoors, esp. with high speed sync, it can really strain the flash since it depletes over a stop of light)

Time and Date sync them.
Work out how you are going to carry them. I use two cameras often, but , do you have battery grips?

I rented a grip for the 5D Mark III and will have a fully-charged back-up battery for my 7D in my pocket.

Then pair will be fine working together, but the devil is in the detail:
What are you using the Speedlites for? Key Flash; Flash as Fill, both and are you using any Light Modifiers if so what?

Speedlites will be key light at times - these events can be pretty low light. Although, with the Mark III I'm going to be able to capture a lot more without using the flash as a key light - probably as fill, for stylistic splashes of light with a dialed down FEC.

On the 7D, the flash will be required as a key light since even ISO 1600 can be pretty grainy. (As I mentioned, this is a prime reason for putting the the 2.8L on the 7D)

As I mentioned above, I will be using Gary Fong Lightsphere. But right now, I only have one, so I'm either going to (yuck) buy another one or use the in-flash bounce card.

In reality the 600 is not that much ‘more powerful’ – work it out. I would focus on the criterion of recycle speed and how fast you intend to shoot with which lens and the factor of the 580MkII possibly overheating at fast shooting speeds or HSS. I think the 600 has better credentials in these respects, though I have not used one. I'd be interested in first hand experienced comments apropos a 600 at Event Shooting, especially: HSS; general Recycle Time and any Overheating issues.

Thank you - excellent advice. And interesting question: On the one hand, the 600 should go on the camera I plan to shoot more/more rapid fires, which will be the wider lens. But the wider lens (as my plan stands now) will be going on the MarkIII, which has less need for the flash. Hmmmm….

[Gorilla]

Thank you for your thoughts!

I will be using the 70-200 for distant subjects, primarily, so I'm not too worried, esp since I'll have the 24-70 at hand for the closer shots.

I like using flash for a lot of event shots, and many portrait shots. You might consider the Gary Fong Lightsphere. I love it, and I think it makes it easier to shoot pro-level with a flash. Just keep in mind that it soaks up some light - maybe 1.3 stops or so. So outdoors, esp when in high speed sync mode (which requires you increase FEC), your flash is working very hard.

[Gorilla]

Thanks. For sure, I will restore all settings on the rented camera (5D MarkIII) and then reset them to match my 7D, which is set to how I like them (or at least what I settled on - which might not be best

[Gorilla]

Thanks for this tip. I had planned to enlist someone to sync it with me by pressing the button at the same time. This would be more reliable

[William W]

Thanks for answering my questions in detail.

From the phraseology and content of your answers I have now assumed that you are reasonably experienced in covering GENERAL Social Events at a professional level and maybe Bar- Mitzvahs especially; as the result of that assumption I shall answer mainly in the form of “what I would do”.

*

I'll soon be shooting an event, and for the first time I will be using two cameras to do so. I own a Canon 7D and rented a 5D Mark III. I own a f/2.8L 70-200 and a f/4L 24-70. I also own a 580 EX ii and rented a 600 EX. It is a large, lavish bar mitzvah. 2 hours of indoor luncheon following ceremony, including half hour of staged portraits of the 13 year old with the torah (the scroll containing the old testament). Later, (late afternoon) 6 hours of a) outdoor family portraits b) various adult and kid sub-sections of the events (cocktail hour, games, dancing, candle lighting ceremony, mega-group portrait and more)

I fully and comprehensively understand: “large, lavish bar mitzvah”.

I didn’t ask whether the 70 to 200 was an IS version. I will assume that it is?

Since we cut over to digital in 2004/5 I have used a Dual Format Kit (APS-C and 135 Format).

Your two lenses do not suit MY rationale for optimum and easy FL coverage when using a Dual Format Kit: I would not have a 24 to 70 zoom, but rather a 17 to 40 or 16 to 35 on the APS-C (I use the 16 to 35); and then the 70 to 200 on the 5D. (But as an aside I am now more often using a single format, dual camera kit, comprising two 5D series – thus 24 to 70 OR 24 to 105 on one and fast prime on the other and I have trained myself to be careful not to go much wider than FL=35mm most of the time and if I do I am aware that I do. ( read on below about ‘fat arms at the edges syndrome’ )

However I understand that you are renting the 5D and I assume this is to be in part a learning exercise about using two working cameras and also using a dual format kit.

When shooting under the pressure of time, I don’t like going much wider than FL=35mm (equiv on 135 format camera), so if forced to work with those two lenses I would most probably use the 24 to 70 on the 7D and the 70 to 200 on the 5D all day. I understand your passion for the 24 on the 5D – if you do go that route don’t let that passion to play with the wide, leave you with groups of “fat arms at the edges“ syndrome. You might be pretty good at seeing curvature through the viewfinder and accurate at aligning the lens squarely in both the vertical and the horizontal: I am too, but I like working ‘safe’ when under the pressure of time. On the other hand your (female) clientele might not be as fussy as mine, I don’t know. A pragmatic solution would be choose your times wisely when to experiment with the 24 on the 5D – in your shoes (and I am assuming you have not got many flying hours up using a 135 Format camera professionally), that’s what I would do.

I am pretty swift at changing lenses whilst carrying two cameras: I suggest you practice that skill such that it is your muscle memory. (This also relates to carriage of the two cameras, see below)

*

1) I want to make sure the pictures I take on one camera "match" the other. Any advice on how the settings on the 5D Mark III and 7D should be adjusted so that the pictures look acceptably similar (particularly other than the basic stuff such as metering mode). I always have captured in RAW, only. I use Aperture, primarily, for post-production. (tho I'm contemplating a switch, which I haven't researches as yet)

As previously mentioned: date and time sync the two cameras.

I see the PURPOSE of making the cameras ‘match’ is for the EASE OF post production.

I’d use Lightroom.

I’d set the WB manually to each lighting situation: realistically you will only have about four or five ‘lighting situations’ throughout the Event. The reason for this practice is to have a base CT for each lighting scenario and that, that CT is the same when the raw is opened from either camera.

I would use BOTH cameras in M Mode; Spot Metering; have a Flash on each camera all the time. I use mainly Canon 580’s and 580MkII. (as mentioned I haven’t used the 600). I have made a quick release flash bracket from an old Metz unit and that allows an Off Camera Cord, which I use on the MAIN WORKING CAMERA. If you like your Fong then have it on your main working camera. BUT I would work like that beacuse I work like that and NOT becasue I am using two cameras. So however you work - work the SAME on both cameras. (see below I suggest you buy another Fong simply for this reason of keeping things 'the same' on each camera.)


The internal bounce card is “OK”. If you don’t want to buy another Fong and consider a lager DIY bounce card. You can even go high end DIY – here:



In any case be aware that using Fong on one and Bounce on the other you will achieve two DIFFERENT Lighting effects: that should be stating the obvious to you – but worthwhile underscoring especially if you consider that a problem:

I suggest that think carefully about the logistics of shooting on the hop . . . at one point in the day under the pressure of time you will be deciding the camera to use based upon the FL and then ALSO you’ll be considering the lighting modifier. Realistically you’ll be running two different FEC’s. That’s too much ‘un-safe’ for me. If I did like working with a Fong I would buy (or borrow) another Fong for the second camera: it is a new camera at a paid gig and I wouldn't want to have a new lighting rig, too, that's simply too dangerous.

This concept of the ‘main working camera’ may be slight conundrum for you, because (as a camera only) the 5DMkIII would be the main working camera: and hence the 24 to 70 ‘should’ stay on that camera all day. Which leaves the 70 to 200 on the 7D, and that is (usually) is a bit of a waste, especially indoors, unless one’s style is sniping for head shots.

I am not fond of the 70 to 200 at these types of events (even on a 5D 200mm is just way too long - 135mm is useful) – consider thinking laterally and consider a fast prime for the 7D and consider the 24 to 70 on the 5D mostly all day if you can be careful about the wide angle, as mentioned above.

The longer the FL of the lens the larger the circumference of the circle that one has to traverse to get to the best shooting position and that's wasting valuable time and potentially missing shots or pulling poorer quality shots; and the longer the FL the larger the SD for any particular framing and that's allowing more space for more people to stuff up the shot - and that's simply handing over control of the shooting space. Also the longer the SD the harder the Flash has to work, hence longer RC time and fewer Aperture and ISO choices.

I have the very strong opinion that unless for the SOLE purposes of either PERSPECTIVE – OR – INABILITY to get to a better shooting position, choosing to use longer than about FL = 105~135 (on 135 Format) at these types of events is simply dumb professional protocol.

*

2) During the reception, I plan to use the wider lens on the 5D and the longer lens on the 7D. My thinking: 5D is full frame, so I might as well get the most bang for my buck and go wide. Also, my wider lens is an f/4, and the 5D MarkIII has great high ISO/low light shooting capabilities to help compensate. The wider lens is the f/4L IS USM. As you might guess, subjects in the evening reception will be moving quite fast at times. (dancing, kids running). In the past - armed only with a 7D and the two lenses described - I used the f/4 24-70 and relied pretty heavily on my flash. I use a Gary Fong light sphere, which is an awesome diffuser for event work. (But outdoors, esp. with high speed sync, it can really strain the flash since it depletes over a stop of light).

See above about what lens on what camera.

What you stated is the main reason I don’t ever use a Fong (or similar) OUTDOORS.

*

3) Any other info you think I should know regarding using two cameras, generally? These two cameras in particular? I rented a grip for the 5D Mark III and will have a fully-charged back-up
battery for my 7D in my pocket.

I use the main working camera on a wrist strap (on my RH). That can be the neck strap rolled a few times around my wrist and often is, but I had made many years ago leather wrist straps especially for this task and I still do use those too but only sometimes.

The second camera I sling across my chest.

ALL my DSLRs have battery grips and the neck straps are attached at the top of the camera near the SHUTTER RELEASE and at the BOTTOM of the camera at the BATTERY GRIP. This allows the chest slung camera to be quickly and easily gripped in the ready mode, the wrist slung camera is simply dropped out of the hand.

The reverse technique also applies: the chest slung camera can be dropped and the wrist slung camera can be jerked upward and caught in the ready position. This latter technique of moving from the chest slung to the wrist slung camera is why I don’t often use the wrist straps anymore, because my writs straps attach only at ONE anchor point on the camera and it is more difficult to jerk up and catch the camera.

*

4) What about the Speedlites? Anybody use both the 600 and 580, and have advice on how to use them to shoot pictures at the same event. Again, I'm especially interested in how they might react differently from one another, any pitfalls that could affect how well the pictures from the two cameras, using different speedlites, "match". Speedlites will be key light at times - these events can be pretty low light. Although, with the Mark III I'm going to be able to capture a lot more without using the flash as a key light - probably as fill, for stylistic splashes of light with a dialed down FEC. On the 7D, the flash will be required as a key light since even ISO 1600 can be pretty grainy. (As I mentioned, this is a prime reason for putting the 2.8L on the 7D) As I mentioned above, I will be using Gary Fong Lightsphere. But right now, I only have one, so I'm either going to (yuck) buy another one or use the in-flash bounce card.

I think I’ve covered most of that.

As direct answer I cannot see why there would be any main “difference” in using the two flashes, one on each camera: but it is assumed that you have enough rental time to practice with the nuances layout and functionalities of the 600.

As you must have gathered I think a Fong (or similar) is a dead waste effort if used outside when using Flash as Fill. I would never do that because: (a) it is just wasting power – and all the ramifications of that especially these three Recycle Time; loss of available range of Aperture and range of ISO and (b) direct or bounce mitt flash as fill, in side light top lit or back lit sunlight is fantastic for modelling, depth, catch-light and pop on the Subject – and with practice – that can be done with the Flash Off Camera.

*

5) I'm thinking that, during the reception, I'll use the 600 EX on the 5D w/ the f/4 and the 580 EX on the 7D w/ the 2.8L. But I'm wondering if it might be smarter to put the more powerful 600 on the body attached to the longer lens. Any thoughts? On the one hand, the 600 should go on the camera I plan to shoot more/more rapid fires, which will be the wider lens. But the wider lens (as my plan stands now) will be going on the MarkIII, which has less need for the flash. Hmmmm….

And I think I’ve covered that, too.

***

Good luck with it.

If you are as experienced as what I have assumed, then my best advice to you is to use the time renting the 5DMkIII to experiment and learn about all the aspects that we have covered: BUT have the shots in the bag first.

If you are a novice at covering events professionally, then I caution you that you are probably making a very BIG mistake renting the 5DMkIII to use for the first time, at this or any professional gig.

WW

[Adrian]

As usual, William is practical, educational and relevant. Normally you would have to pay for this quality of advice. Good thread. Adrian

[Colin Southern]

Normally you would have to pay for this quality of advice. Good thread. Adrian

You can send some bottles of wine to Bill care of me ...

... I'll make sure that the empty bottles get to him!

[William W]

Thanks for the kind comment, Adrian: your timing is impeccable. I perceive that your timing in the people management at your business, is one of your strengths too.

Also, back to the thread I missed this on my first reading:

. . . I am not sure that the cameras are you limitation: more the lenses. . .

I agree. This is important, especially in respect of the long term goal.

I covered that in a roundabout way.

The OP (Prof/Mr/Ms/Master/Miss/ Mrs/Dr . . .Gorilla ? ? ? – that’s an hint as to we don’t know what to refer to you as) would do well to ponder on that matter - not necessarily ponder heavily for THIS event, but in more a longer term view if a dual format kit is to be the end game

*

Colin, as my Agent, only takes 100%. That’s a good business model if it works.

*

You fellas have a great day, I have to go and make some money now…

*

BTW: Noted that Gorilla answered each question that was asked – that’s extremely unusual especially for a first time poster: that goes to exhibiting professionalism.

WW

[Gorilla]

"
From the phraseology and content of your answers I have now assumed that you are reasonably experienced in covering GENERAL Social Events at a professional level and maybe Bar- Mitzvahs especially;"

I would say that I am somewhat reasonably sort of experienced. I still feel as if I will be discovered at any moment to be an impostor. This is due in part to the fact that I haven't come close to logging the all-important "10,000 hours" that Gladwell popularized, and also that I am largely self-taught, so I am always fearing "not knowing what I don't know I need to know". Also, there are other reasons, but I will save those for a forum focused on mommy issues.


"I didn’t ask whether the 70 to 200 was an IS version. I will assume that it is?"
Yes it is! I couldn't feed my kids for a month after I bought it, but I documented their starvation with very sharp images!

My lenses, for now, are what they are. I would very much like to own a fast L series prime. And likely a truly wide L series zoom. Also, I would like to go on a date with Cindy Crawford and play professional hockey.

I understand your point about distorted subjects at the edges of the wider shots. I also think that images taken at the widest or longest end of any zoom lens tend to be less sharp. But I do pull "all the way wide" in events, with the knowledge that I am usually capturing more scene than I want/need and I will crop the edges off later. I do this because when stopping at, say 35mm, on the fly, I tend to turn the circle more slowly and occasionally miss shots.

One area in which I freely (and anonymously )admit I am relatively unskilled is customizing white balance - I tend to go auto WB all the time, and I now occasionally use gels on my flash (really just CTOs, maybe that fluorescent light one, too, if needed). I bought an expo disk a long time ago, when influenced by an effective salesperson at a point when I barely even knew what CT was. The lighting conditions at an event change so much (balance of light over time as the day turns to night, if near a window, or even moment to moment, indoors with no window, if a DJ has a gazillion lights flashing - they do mix lights, those saboteurs). I can see why custom WB becomes much more important with 2 cameras going.
How do you set custom white balances at an event? Do you incorporate your flash when doing so, even if you'll use it sometimes and not at others (esp on the ISO-awesome Markiii)?

Another question:, and if this too off-topic, just say so (be rough, please) : For those of you have shot an event on a 5D MarkIII, what are your AF settings? I'm thinking AI Servo, with the cross-point AF points only, Spot AF with AF Point expansion. Make sense to you guys? I'd be using spot metering with these settings, FYI.
(I can't wait to use this AF - and the Miii high ISOs. Will be like a different machine, entirely.)


Oh - thanks for asking - I would ask that you use masculine pronouns when referring to me, Gorilla. Señor Gorilla, is cool, too. But "Doctor Gorilla" is probably my favorite

[Colin Southern]

"
From the phraseology and content of your answers I have now assumed that you are reasonably experienced in covering GENERAL Social Events at a professional level and maybe Bar- Mitzvahs especially;"

I would say that I am somewhat reasonably sort of experienced. I still feel as if I will be discovered at any moment to be an impostor. This is due in part to the fact that I haven't come close to logging the all-important "10,000 hours" that Gladwell popularized, and also that I am largely self-taught, so I am always fearing "not knowing what I don't know I need to know". Also, there are other reasons, but I will save those for a forum focused on mommy issues.


"I didn’t ask whether the 70 to 200 was an IS version. I will assume that it is?"
Yes it is! I couldn't feed my kids for a month after I bought it, but I documented their starvation with very sharp images!

My lenses, for now, are what they are. I would very much like to own a fast L series prime. And likely a truly wide L series zoom. Also, I would like to go on a date with Cindy Crawford and play professional hockey.

I understand your point about distorted subjects at the edges of the wider shots. I also think that images taken at the widest or longest end of any zoom lens tend to be less sharp. But I do pull "all the way wide" in events, with the knowledge that I am usually capturing more scene than I want/need and I will crop the edges off later. I do this because when stopping at, say 35mm, on the fly, I tend to turn the circle more slowly and occasionally miss shots.

One area in which I freely (and anonymously )admit I am relatively unskilled is customizing white balance - I tend to go auto WB all the time, and I now occasionally use gels on my flash (really just CTOs, maybe that fluorescent light one, too, if needed). I bought an expo disk a long time ago, when influenced by an effective salesperson at a point when I barely even knew what CT was. The lighting conditions at an event change so much (balance of light over time as the day turns to night, if near a window, or even moment to moment, indoors with no window, if a DJ has a gazillion lights flashing - they do mix lights, those saboteurs). I can see why custom WB becomes much more important with 2 cameras going.
How do you set custom white balances at an event? Do you incorporate your flash when doing so, even if you'll use it sometimes and not at others (esp on the ISO-awesome Markiii)?

Another question:, and if this too off-topic, just say so (be rough, please) : For those of you have shot an event on a 5D MarkIII, what are your AF settings? I'm thinking AI Servo, with the cross-point AF points only, Spot AF with AF Point expansion. Make sense to you guys? I'd be using spot metering with these settings, FYI.
(I can't wait to use this AF - and the Miii high ISOs. Will be like a different machine, entirely.)


Oh - thanks for asking - I would ask that you use masculine pronouns when referring to me, Gorilla. Señor Gorilla, is cool, too. But "Doctor Gorilla" is probably my favorite

Hi ya,

It would be really really really cool if you could wrap quoted text in quote tags instead of using "" (it affects the way the content is indexed and pushed out to clients like tapatalk)

It's dead easy - just put (without the spaces) [ q u o t e ] at the start of the quoted text and [ / q u o t e ] at the end of it (or just select it and hit the quote button at the end of the toolbar which does the same thing).

PS: What's your first name - I'll put it into your profile so we can think of you as being a "John" or a "Sam" instead of a 500 pound beast!

[Colin Southern]

Yes it is! I couldn't feed my kids for a month after I bought it, but I documented their starvation with very sharp images!

Good to see you have your priorities where they should be. Mine sometimes ask "who do you love more - your family or your (RC) helicopters?" I tell them not to be so stupid - I love the helicopters far more!

Also, I would like to go on a date with Cindy Crawford

She was nice, but the wine was a poor match for the fish

I also think that images taken at the widest or longest end of any zoom lens tend to be less sharp.

It's not something that should be noticeable in a real-world image. At the end of the day, an optimal multi-pass sharpening workflow will have a far bigger influence on the image.

One area in which I freely (and anonymously )admit I am relatively unskilled is customizing white balance - I tend to go auto WB all the time, and I now occasionally use gels on my flash (really just CTOs, maybe that fluorescent light one, too, if needed). I bought an expo disk a long time ago, when influenced by an effective salesperson at a point when I barely even knew what CT was. The lighting conditions at an event change so much (balance of light over time as the day turns to night, if near a window, or even moment to moment, indoors with no window, if a DJ has a gazillion lights flashing - they do mix lights, those saboteurs). I can see why custom WB becomes much more important with 2 cameras going.
How do you set custom white balances at an event? Do you incorporate your flash when doing so, even if you'll use it sometimes and not at others (esp on the ISO-awesome Markiii)?

ExpoDiscs are pretty useless when you're using flash because to use them to set a custom WB you need to point the camera back at the light source, and with flash attached that's just never going to work. Keep in mind that there are two types of white balance "technically correct" and "visually correct". For a technically correct WB it's best to have a spectrally neutral reference target in a test shot that you can WB too (eg spectrally neutral gray card) - then you just adjust the images as part of your RAW processing workflow (you are shooting RAW aren't you?!). A "visually correct" WB is simply what looks "right". Some people can't understand why one wouldn't always want a technically correct WB; just think of the yellowish light from a candle or the warm red light from a sunset ... if you nulled that out it just wouldnt't look right even though it may have been made "technically correct".

Another question:, and if this too off-topic, just say so (be rough, please) : For those of you have shot an event on a 5D MarkIII, what are your AF settings? I'm thinking AI Servo, with the cross-point AF points only, Spot AF with AF Point expansion. Make sense to you guys? I'd be using spot metering with these settings, FYI.
(I can't wait to use this AF - and the Miii high ISOs. Will be like a different machine, entirely.)

Normally only use AI Servo when the camera to subject distance is changing as you take the shot; single-shot AF is generally more accurate, but won't compensate for changing distances (I use a 1D X which has the same AF (more or less) as the 5D3). Other than that you should be good to go, but it ultimately depends on what you're shooting; ie if your main AF point and assist AF points are on different planes then you'll get inconsistent results (which may or may not be significant depending on your aperture) (ie DoF considerations). Spot-metering will probably make your life a living hell in that situation because you have to constantly add or subtract EC (Exposure Compensation) to compensate for the degree to which the metered spot varies from middle gray).

Hope this helps, Professor Gorilla!

[William W]

Doctor Gorilla,

. . . My lenses, for now, are what they are.

Then you work with the lenses that you have.
What you have is more MUCH more than acceptable, to shoot the event.
What you do NOT have (or have not yet mentioned) is however totally unacceptable to take to this event, if is a professional engagement: and that is you do not have system redundancy apropos the main working lens.

If the 24 t0 70 goes down - you are likely professional history and likely you will be without any legal leverage if you are sued.

*

. . . I do pull "all the way wide" in events, with the knowledge that I am usually capturing more scene than I want/need and I will crop the edges off later.

Shooing wide and cropping tighter is both a common and also a most reliable, suitable technique used by many Pros when shooting events.

*

. . . I tend to go auto WB all the time, and I now occasionally use gels on my flash (really just CTOs, maybe that fluorescent light one, too, if needed). I bought an expo disk a long time ago, when influenced by an effective salesperson at a point when I barely even knew what CT was. The lighting conditions at an event change so much (balance of light over time as the day turns to night, if near a window, or even moment to moment, indoors with no window, if a DJ has a gazillion lights flashing - they do mix lights, those saboteurs). I can see why custom WB becomes much more important with 2 cameras going.
How do you set custom white balances at an event? Do you incorporate your flash when doing so, even if you'll use it sometimes and not at others (esp on the ISO-awesome Markiii)?

See Colin’s remarks re using (or the useLESSness of) an Expo Disc at an event.
Please re-read my comments about Custom White Balance being useful for workflow and read those comment in concert with Colin’s remarks about “Visually Correct White Balance”.

The reason why I often set a white balance (I use °K) is so the Workflow is more efficient. Note that I mentioned Lightroom. If a pre-set WB is used, then one opens every raw file at the same pre-set Colour Temperature, for any given lighting scenario. Doing this is NOT about getting the pre-set white balance “technically correct” it is about having a set of files ALL AT THE SAME PRESET to begin Post Production. Setting a custom WB is useful for me, when I am using only one camera. Using AWB will create a variable, across any set of files – I don’t like that as it creates more PP work.

The lighting conditions don’t change all that much at an event: as per my previous there are about four or five lighting scenarios at a typical event that you describe.
Briefly:
Outside Sunlight in any aspect No Flash
Outside Open Sun or Open Shade with Flash as Fill
Inside window light diffused No flash
Inside window light diffused and Flash as Fill
Inside under Tungsten Lights with Flash as Key
Inside under Tungsten Lights with Flash as Key, dragging the shutter for room ambient

The first five I would typically use K = 6000° - the caveat being for either of the two Available Light scenarios I might warm the CT - IF the set is a discrete set of portraits.

The one element for many of my Clients is the CONTINUITY of Colour of the dresses across the WHOLE event coverage and subsequently the Album, especially for the key Women. Obviously this may vary between Clientele and is not as relevant if an Album or similar is not one of the Client’s requirements .

*

Another question:, and if this too off-topic, just say so (be rough, please) : For those of you have shot an event on a 5D MarkIII, what are your AF settings? I'm thinking AI Servo, with the cross-point AF points only, Spot AF with AF Point expansion. Make sense to you guys? I'd be using spot metering with these settings, FYI.

I don’t use a 5DMkIII – I use a 5DMkII and 5D, and various APS-C Cameras. At an event like you describe I use single Shot AF: it is not usually a football match. I use centre point AF, ALL the time and I Focus; Lock Focus and Recompose. If I were using a 5D MkIII I would do the same, I expect.

I use Spot Metering most of the time. I use M Mode most of the time. Those two choice are LINKED.

Because, when shooting these types events, my brain compacts sets of shots into Sets of Lighting Scenarios I use the Spot Meter in the camera almost as a stand-alone tool and then I use Manual Camera Mode to make those individual shots, with in that lighting set.

I don’t think I have EVER used Spot Metering in an automatic camera mode (Av, Tv, or P). Choosing Spot Metering in combination with an Automatic Camera Mode would do my head in. Colin adequately describes why: it is just way too much work and too much room for error.

With Flash - I use FEC and for many reasons I use M Mode always when I have an on camera flash. I describe why here at Post #28:
Aperture priority and speedlites

Good luck with the shoot,

Dr William

[skilsaw]

It is a large, lavish bar mitzvah. 2 hours of indoor luncheon following ceremony, including half hour of staged portraits of the 13 year old with the torah (the scroll containing the old testament). Later, (late afternoon) 6 hours of a) outdoor family portraits b) various adult and kid sub-sections of the events (cocktail hour, games, dancing, candle lighting ceremony, mega-group portrait and more)

This is a once in a lifetime party and you only get one shot at photographing it. It sounds like the family is spending a bundle on the party so they should be able to spend a bit more on photographer. I don't like to get in over my head with nobody there to save me. Even if everything goes fine, I am so stressed that I don't have a good time. It would be good if you have a second shooter, and if this is your first big event, you be the second shooter. This way you will relax, have a good time, and probably get better results.

Renting a professional camera would not make me a professional photographer. I take my camera to every event I attend and shoot off 50 to 100 photos. When I get home I critique them and learn from the experience. Have the family depend on a real professional, and you take the "bonus" photographs.

Maybe I've misinterpreted your message, and you are more experienced than it seems. In this case, Fast ISO, Fast Shutter, Slow Aperture and have a great time.