Upgrade for Birding Lens

[Suzan J]

Hello all: I am considering an upgrade to my current Nikon 55 to 300 VR II lens which is paired with my relatively new D7100. I have been managing to get some decent bird shots and I do believe the additional focus points on my 7100 have helped considerably. I do, however, lose a lot of shots as the 55 to 300 seems to hunt for focus for what seems like an eternity. I also get a lot of soft shots even when using high shutter speeds. I know some are attributable to camera shake, but there have been quite a few that I thought would be nice and crisp, but they did not come out that way.

My ultimate wish list would include the Nikon 300 f4.0 prime lens, but unfortunately that is not in my budget at this time. It currently retails on Amazon for $ 1300.00. I would not be comfortable buying any lens second hand as I just don't have the technical skill to know what to look for in terms of damage or flaws.

I would like to know if the Nikon 70 to 300 would make a significant difference in comparison to my current lens. It currently retails for $ 586.00 on Amazon.

Would it focus faster?
Is it sharper?
Would there be enough of a performance boost to warrant an upgrade?

Also, on the Amazon site, there is a box that asks "Is this lens compatible with your camera?" I typed in D7100 and it said "no". That can't be right, can it???

[NorthernFocus]

Showing that the 70-300 is not compatible with the d7100 must be due to the 70-300 being an FX lens. It is compatible. Check the Nikon site. But if you really want to improve IQ and remove any doubts about equipment versus technique, I highly recommend finding a used 300mm f4. That is THE lens to match up with the d7100. If you buy one on eBay and/or pay for it with PayPal, you have protection for it not being as advertised. They can routinely be had for about $900 used. No question it is the best affordable lens to match with the d7100 for wildlife photography.

[Manfred M]

Suzan - I'm not a birder, but do shoot long glass (Nikon 80-400mm and Sigma 150-500mm) when doing wildlife photography. Both these lenses "seek" as well if used incorrectly. By that I mean using one of the multi-focus point modes. Change your focus to continuous, single point and I think you will have a much higher success rate. Multi-point has to decide where to focus, so for instance, if the bird is in a tree, it has to figure out where to focus, given the bird and all the leaves and branches, so it keeps hunting until it gets a focus lock. Continuous will help in tracking the bird's movements.

Unfortunately, with multi-point focus, it may have locked on the wrong object (for instance the branch the bird is on, rather than the bird itself) and you will get a soft image.

So, try changing your focus settings before spending any money on a lens that is likely to give you similar issues unless you play with your camera settings.

[Suzan J]

Yes Dan, I was afraid you were going to say that. I really do want that lens and probably need to talk myself into it. There is a local camera store that I deal with in this city from time to time. If he does not have a used 300 lens, and the odds of finding one in this city are slim, perhaps he would be willing to examine a used one if I should purchase it from Ebay or some similar site. And Manfred, what you describe is exactly what I'm talking about. Leaves and branches are definitely causing the hunting. Currently, I am on continuous focus mode using all 51 points as I assumed that this would ensure focus on the moving bird. If I change to single point in continuous mode, I might end of with less hunting time but wouldn't I lose the ability to maintain focus on a bird in flight?

[Manfred M]

nd Manfred, what you describe is exactly what I'm talking about. Leaves and branches are definitely causing the hunting. Currently, I am on continuous focus mode using all 51 points as I assumed that this would ensure focus on the moving bird. If I change to single point in continuous mode, I might end of with less hunting time but wouldn't I lose the ability to maintain focus on a bird in flight?

Again, not being a birder, I can't really make any comments on tracking a bird in flight using the technique I've suggested (and use a lot). What is does for me is to fix the seeking issue. I do use it when tracking moving objects (primarily people and wildlife), and I do use the centre focal point to focus on the eye and then recompose.

That is the technique I used to capture this bird at a 200mm focal length...



All I can suggest is that you try it for some period, at least see if it helps; it takes a bit of time to become comfortable with the technique (I use it with back-button focusing). I would think tracking a bird in flight should not be an issue, with a bit of practice.

[John 2]

Susan, I use the Nikon 70-300 on my D7100 with no problems what so ever and for the greater part of its range, it is very sharp. It also, if pushed, will happily cope with the odd close-up butterfly etc. (but not in flight ). Manfred's suggested focus mode sounds like a good approach for this lens that had never occurred to me (why?) and I will be trying that. Having said that, in my occasional fore's into bird photography, I regularly wish for something longer. The new Tamron 150 - 600mm has been universally well reviewed on performance and more importantly, value for money and looks to fit that bill. It has just been voted lens of the year in the UK in one of the (many) such comparisons but they are not yet readily available. It might be worth considering if the price is right.

[Brownbear]

Hi Suzan,

Just to say I think you should talk yourself into the Nikon F4 300 mm lens even if it means saving up for another 6 months. I purchased this lens about 7 months ago when I upgraded my D90 to a D7100 and I absolutely love this lens for photographing birds in flight. I purchased it refurbished and it is the best lens I've ever owned. It grabs and holds focus fast (also in part due to the D7100) and my BIF are sharper (less soft). I absolutely love that I can switch to manual focus simply by turning the ring on the end of the lens-so helpful for birds in trees etc.


I purchased an 1.4 extender to place on the end of the lens for extra reach. In low light I end up taking off the extender, and often also when photographing small birds in flight because it focuses faster without it. Just an example to say that although my D7100 focuses faster than my D90 I can also see that the lens focuses faster.

I am also not an equipment minded person. However, I have had a great experience with purchasing used lens and cameras (all of my lens were purchased used) from reputable stores and web sites. I purchased my first DSLR a Sony Alpha 200 about 3 years ago on EBay on the recommendation of a friend... (Loved that camera and it served me well for the first year)... I traded that in for a Nikon D100 with used lens, and then traded in the D100 for a D90. Until I finally purchased my D7100 (for birds in flight)

For budgetary reasons I've purchased all my lens used or refurbished from a local camera store or B&H or EBay. And traded in old lens to help pay for the new lens. All of my lens have worked perfectly.

The only thing for me with the F4 Nikon 300 lens is that because I don't own a lens that covers the 200-300 mm distance I lost the luxury of zooming in and out on bird shots, so if my timing is off I end up cropping bits of birds in flight. Still I would rather have the lens I have.

I use single point focus all of the time and it works perfectly...

Anyhow just to say that I love this lens, wouldn't give it up for the world (for bird images) and also to say that my experience purchasing used equipment has been terrific.

PS I forgot to say that with my other lens I often saw chromatic aberration (purple/green fringing) and this is rarely the case now. For full size images this lens made a big difference for me.


PPS I also forgot to say that the lens doesn't have image stabilization but I've never had this feature so I don't miss it.

[JR1]

You don't need any skills to buy pre owned (second hand) just a reputable supplier

[jprzybyla]

Hello Suzan, You certainly can upgrade your lens for birding but you may encounter the same problem. I have used the Nikon 55-200mm and the 55-300mm both sometimes called kit lenses because they are sold bundled with the camera bodies. I have had good results with both. I now use a Nikon 70-300mm F/4.5-5.6 VRII AF, it works well also but image to image you cannot tell the difference. I bought my D7000 and the 70-300 refurbished by Nikon, I could not be more pleased and it saved me money.

If your lens is searching for focus it is most likely because it does not know what to focus on. This is common with all the focus points available and the camera set to automatic auto-focus.. I use Nikon's auto-focus setting of AF-A with the center point the active focus point. AF-A will use single focus mode if the subject is stationary and continuous focus mode if the subject is moving. Rarely will I try to focus on a bird buried in trees and brush. First it is very difficult and second I know I will not like the image afterwards. Pick birds in the open and put the focus point on it to tell the camera this is what I want to focus on. For birds in flight against a clear sky I make the points surrounding the center point available, so if the center point strays off the bird the others will pick up the focusing. For varied backgrounds ( trees and bushes ) I use just the center point.

I kind of strayed off the point here but I would not hesitate to buy a lens refurbished by Nikon, other used lenses I would be apprehensive.

[benm]

Yes Dan, I was afraid you were going to say that. I really do want that lens and probably need to talk myself into it. There is a local camera store that I deal with in this city from time to time. If he does not have a used 300 lens, and the odds of finding one in this city are slim, perhaps he would be willing to examine a used one if I should purchase it from Ebay or some similar site. And Manfred, what you describe is exactly what I'm talking about. Leaves and branches are definitely causing the hunting. Currently, I am on continuous focus mode using all 51 points as I assumed that this would ensure focus on the moving bird. If I change to single point in continuous mode, I might end of with less hunting time but wouldn't I lose the ability to maintain focus on a bird in flight?

If the bird is sitting on a branch and there are leaves, trees all around then single point works best. You should be aware that the actual focus point is not the same shape as the little focus rectangle indicated in the viewfinder nor is it guaranteed that it is centered horizontally or vertically either.

For birds in flight try more focus points but you may not need all 51. You should have a selection between 1 and 51, perhaps 21. The fewer the number of focus points used the faster it will focus. There are several other focus parameters that can be adjusted; you need to experiment. The one thing about Auto Focus is that it is far from really being auto.

I have the 300 f/4 and it focuses fast, accurately and positively.

[ajohnw]

Another alternative may be the Tamron lenses. The 200-500mm or the newer one which goes longer and also has VR. They are big heavy lenses though. The 200-500mm isn't a bad lens and can be bought fairly cheaply. What I am not sure about is focusing speed and birds in flight. This lens would be using the screw focus as I call it on your camera. Some one on here is bound to have used AF-D lenses at some point for this sort of thing so some one may comment. I'm curious too but am more interested in near static birds. The AF-D 300mm F4 Nikon tends to be cheaper than the more recent one as well. My feeling is that a lot will depend on which way the birds are approaching. Straight at the camera is bound to be more difficult than across - most shots I see are across and I would have thought AF-D would cope but it may mean panning for longer before shooting. Not much longer though. The AF-D 300mm F4 is fairly snappy so the question is can it keep up and that will depend on the speed and angle of the bird. Both it and the Tamron 200-500mm lens were designed for this sort of thing.

Be interesting to see if anyone has used these lenses on BIF and can give an honest opinion. If birds are static in a tree I find even 600mm FF equiv on m 4/3 could do with being a lot longer but most UK birds are rather small.

John
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[thequacksoflife]

the 70-300 is a pretty good lens for the price....... focus was pretty decent

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CAnG8kx_ji...0/DSC_3493.JPG

the 300 f4 is meant to be very good but bear in mind it doesn't have VR it is an AF-S lens though

your d7100 has a 1.3 crop mode so you can get a tighter field of view.

[Suzan J]

Thank you all for the helpful comments and advice. One thing is for certain and that is I do definitely want an upgrade from my current 55 to 300 mm lens. Your comments have given me more confidence in purchasing refurbished equipment, so that will definitely help the budget. I will try the single point technique for perching birds and reduce the number of focus points for birds in flight. Below is an image of an eagle who often sits in a tree and and looks for fish at the back of my property which is bounded by a slow muddy river. He is the reason why I want an upgrade. He has never let me this close before. This is not a great shot and has been cropped, but I want to use it for reference and someday get that winning photo!

DSC_1627 by Soo J, on Flickr

[Suzan J]

Oh, and thanks Manfred for the post of that cute fellow. He has the same hairstyle that I have first thing in the morning.

[Suzan J]

...and a special thank you to Christina, Joe, and everyone for taking the time to write such detailed replies. It's much appreciated.

[Brownbear]

Hi Suzan,

I just wanted to say that I think this is a great shot. One of the few times (for me) that a background of branches works. The eagle stands out beautifully and you photographed him beautifully. Gorgeous detail and a beautiful exposure.

Lucky you to have an eagle in your backyard!

Thank you all for the helpful comments and advice. One thing is for certain and that is I do definitely want an upgrade from my current 55 to 300 mm lens. Your comments have given me more confidence in purchasing refurbished equipment, so that will definitely help the budget. I will try the single point technique for perching birds and reduce the number of focus points for birds in flight. Below is an image of an eagle who often sits in a tree and and looks for fish at the back of my property which is bounded by a slow muddy river. He is the reason why I want an upgrade. He has never let me this close before. This is not a great shot and has been cropped, but I want to use it for reference and someday get that winning photo!

DSC_1627 by Soo J, on Flickr

[chauncey]

Would there be enough of a performance boost to warrant an upgrade?

Only you and your psychiatrist can answer that question for it depends entirely on your degree of anal retentiveness. Do you cull out your images based on 100-200% image quality...if that sort of IQ is unnecessary then fuhgeddaboudit .

[ajohnw]

Only you and your psychiatrist can answer that question for it depends entirely on your degree of anal retentiveness. Do you cull out your images based on 100-200% image quality...if that sort of IQ is unnecessary then fuhgeddaboudit .

Seems like a rather anal response to me WM.

I don't think you would really notice all that much difference changing to the more expensive 70-300mm. The general problem with zooms is that the performance invariably drops off at the long end. The 55-300mm is also a "kit" lens, surprisingly these are generally OK - be silly for the manufacturers to put something out that is hopeless - I think they came close with the wide angle that they kitted with this though,

The 300mm F4 prime is a very good lens but it wont get you any closer to birds. It can be used with converters which will. Christina seems to have had problems using these though. I'm surprised by that as the dealer that sold me my AF-D version reckoned it would be fine with the converters. No IS though so it will need rather high ISO's hand held and that means noise.

The Tamron 200-500mm isn't a bad lens. If you google Pixelpeepers Tamron 200-500mm you will find lots and lots of bird photo's. No IS again and it weighs about 1.5kg. It also needs the focus motor in the camera so focus will not be as quick as a lens with the af drive built in. It's may also be slower than the 300mm F4 nikon that uses the camera's af drive.

The Tamron 150-600mm VC has IS, a modern AF drive and weighs in at a bit under 2kg. I haven't seen the type of test I like done on it but as the 200-500mm is popular with some birders it would be a bit silly of them to put out something awful. There should be some pixelpeeper shots taken with it about now. Having IS always means that lower ISO's can be used hand held but how low and how easy it is to handle kit that with camera gets up towards 3kg is going to vary according to the person using it.

There are also some 70-200m F2.8 lenses about. I wonder what they would be like with a converter on. The Nikon 70-200mm are pretty spectacular lenses but rather expensive. I am not sure if I would buy this sort of lens by other makes. The Nikon one for a lens of this size is fairly manageable. I'm told that the VR on the most recent one is a lot better than the earlier one. I don't know how well these lenses work with a 2x converter on. There should also be a possibility of using the 70-200mm F4 like this but it would be far more risky.

Serious bird people seem to think that the best option is prime lenses and converters and frown on zooms plus converters but longish primes on Nikon with IS seem to be thin on the ground.

I'd give Manfred's 80-400mm a miss personally as it's not a well regarded lens but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't be able to get decent web shots out of it. From memory they also do a 200-400mm F4 VR but the price is ouch. It can even be used with a converter. All yours for about $5000 and weighs in at 3kg.

Then there are Sigma's that go to long focal lengths with IS. I don't know much about these and am a bit niffed that mine developed fungus even though it had little use. Resolution though as with many sigma's was pretty good in the centre. Lots of people use them. I find the older one I have big and cumbersome. Fixed length lenses are much nicer. The Tamron 200-500mm also trombones rather a lot.


I'm sort of thinking you want something longer really. That gives bigger images which will also help with quality.

Pity no one will comment on using AF-D lenses for BIF.

John
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[Polar01]

Susan: I am linking to a site by a bird photographer from the Trenton area, she used a Nikon D90 and with a Sigma 150-500mm lens from most of her work. Also most of the shots were taken from a canoe, she also has great patience waiting to get the shot.
http://www.tonydegroot.com/KathysPage/KathysGal.html

A lot of people thought that she was using the Canon 800mm f/5.6L glass to get the shots she does, and were floored when she told them what she did use.

Now to post #18 from John, the new 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR (model 2208)is a great lens it is not to be compared to the older 80-400mm (model 1996) which is what John maybe doing. The new lens is blazing fast getting on focus and holding it, it is being used by many top birders however, it comes in at around $3,000.00 CDN. The 200-400mm f/4 is coming in at around $7,700.00 CDN.

So check out the link, nice shots.

Cheers: Allan
Susan I would suggest that you look at posts by people that enjoy shooting birds they tend to know what works and what does not work, as they are doing it and posting their work.

[Manfred M]

Now to post #18 from John, the new 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR (model 2208)is a great lens it is not to be compared to the older 80-400mm (model 1996) which is what John maybe doing.

Yes, I do have the older lens version of the Nikon 80-400mm lens, and it's optical performance is reportedly on par with the Sigma 150-500mm lens. I would have to agree, based on my shooting experience.

Mechanically, the Nikon is better built than the Sigma, but it is an older generation lens and requires an in-camera focus motor. This does mean it is not a brilliantly fast focuing lens and it is the first VR lens Nikon built, so again a bit obsolete. This image was taken with the Nikon lens, sitting in an inflatable boat out on an estuary.