Architectural Wide-Angle Problems - Suggestions Please...

[acroreef]

Dear Folks,

I'm just beginning to learn real estate photography. I need some help in the area of proper composition/technique regarding wide angle. Here is some background: I have a Sony A7R and a 24-70. I also purchased the crop sensor Sony E-lens 10-18, (made for the NEX cameras). I don't get too much darkening in the corners between 13-16 mm or so in full frame mode. I've been practicing taking shots of historic buildings. I take multiple images and create an HDR, but for simplicity, I will attach a JPEG image (RAW was too large to load) that has not been altered by me in any way - straight out of the camera.

I placed the camera on a tripod and used a remote to trigger the shot. I stood back far enough to get the building - top to bottom in the frame. I used the in-camera level to try to keep the horizontal and vertical plane correct. The result looks horrible to me. (I used the Sony 10-18 here). I realize that some correction can be made in Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop (I have CS6) but I know it is better to get the best image out of the camera before post.

What suggestions would you make regarding 1). better composition? and 2). better technique for proper look and feel of the photo?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Dave

[Manfred M]

A few thoughts and questions. Why are you using a crop-frame lens on a full frame camera? Unfortunately, I don't know the lineup very well and the only Sony I've shot recently is the NEX-7. I assume that the A7R is going to do some in-camera cropping to compensate for this, but depending on how this is done, I can certainly understand why you might be getting the vignetting. The ultra-wides are going to give you some weird perspective related results in the corners of the image.

I assume that your 24-70 is a full-frame lens? If so, I would stick to it. At least it will give you a larger usable image that uses the whole sensor.

So far as I know, Sony does not make any shift / tilt lenses, so you are stuck shooting straight and cropping off a lot of your image or sotting on an angle and fixing it in post, either manually or using a plug-in for Photoshop like DxO Viewpoint. If you want to fix this "properly", you could look at the Samyang lens 24mm tilt-shift lens. Decent quality and price.

http://samyang-europe.com/index.php/...amyang-ts-24mm


Your other problem is exposure. Try bracketing or spot metering off the building; the sky appear to be blown out. The lighting in your image does not appear to be optimal; magic hour would give you more compelling lighting. I'm not quite sure why you used a remote trigger; the conditions wouldn't seem to warrant using one.


Most of the other issues that I see with the image are purely compositional. I'm not sure how advance you are in PS work, but you could solve some of your issues through multiple exposures and working in multiple layers in Photoshop.


For instance, this image is built up from multiple shots and I used a GND filter to enhance the sky.




This is one of the original shots I worked with, it certainly does not look too good...




This shot, on the other hand, what shot with a 24mm Nikkor PC-E shift / tilt lens and need a lot less work in post.




If you are not familiar with tilt / shift lenses, they have a large image circle and allow you to shift (used for architectural work) of tilt (changes DoF) while keeping the lens perpendicular to the subject you are shooting.



In my view, a "must have" for serious architectural work.

[Shadowman]

Another problem is you are standing too far away from the house. In the photo provided there is no foreground interest; just a lot of lawn. So unless the lawn is a huge selling point, get closer. If the lawn is a big factor in selling this house, put something interesting on the lawn, something like a family playing, or some ornament.

[Polar01]

Dave why so much lawn is it important? To my way of thinking it is not the building is. Try turning the camera from landscape to portrait then stitch the images together in CS6. By doing that you should be able to go to a longer lens or get a better crop.

Cheers: Allan

[RobertsMx]

14mm is extremely wide on FF. You could get away with 24mm equivalent (using your FE 24-70). Also important to note is that with an UWA lens, keeping the camera level and shooting at the horizon would be better (the image you posted above is "looking up".

If you do want to investigate Tilt Shift options, Samyang 24mm f/3.5 TS can be a good option and it is available on Sony E-mount (it is an FE lens).

[acroreef]

Thanks for the replies. I'm using a crop-frame lens because Sony doesn't make a FE wide-angle lens yet for the A7R. The crop frame lens works in full-frame from about 13mm to 16mm or so. I'm not too concerned about the vignetting as that can easily be cleaned up in post. When Sony does come out with a 16-35, I'll trade in my crop-factor lens.

Regarding exposure, I did shoot at around "golden hour" (sunset) and took 7 images for HDR. The image above was just one of the unprocessed images.

But I do have another question about his composition please.... I stood back far enough to get the entire building in the frame. So, because of that, it included a lot of grass. I didn't want all that grass and would have cropped most of it out in post. Aside from turning the camera sideways (portrait) how else could I have gotten the entire building in the shot without using a t/s?

Thank you...

Dave

[Colin Southern]

Hi Dave,

The number one rule when shooting architecture with a wide-angle lens is you MUST get the sensor plane perpendicular to the ground (ie parallel to the plane of the buildings). If you don't, you'll get converging parallel lines if you're pointing up, and diverging lines if you're pointing down. So when shooting inside in particular, pay close attention to "squaring things up" by tilting the camera up and down and also rotating it from side to side.

For inside shots in particular, pay attention to where your focal point is, and shoot at a narrow aperture (F11 minimum. F16 preferred). It pays to hedge your bets by bracketing exposures; if you're shooting at base ISO you often won't need the additional exposures, but it's better to have them and not need them than the other way around. It also gives you the option of picking a better exposure (often real estate shots will have blown areas through windows and you may want to come back and mask a couple of shots to get a better exposure through the window).

Lighting is as important as ever; generally you'll want room and bed lights on, but often they're incandescent and give a much warmer tone than from flashes, so you may need to gel flashes.

As with any photography, it's all about the light; personally I'd suggest a couple of portable flashes and some diffusers as a starting point, but I've also done jobs where I've augmented these with a couple of big strobes from the studio. If you don't have a good light source then you're immediately "behind the curve".

Hope this helps.

[acroreef]

Thanks Colin,

I thought I was keeping the sensor squared up by using the in-camera level. Is this tool sometimes wrong? And is there a better way to be sure sensor is as square as possible?

Dave

[Colin Southern]

Thanks Colin,

I thought I was keeping the sensor squared up by using the in-camera level. Is this tool sometimes wrong? And is there a better way to be sure sensor is as square as possible?

Dave

Hi Dave,

You'll find it's easier to do visually; just look through the viewfinder and "square up" things like door frames with the edge of the field of view. Often too you might want to lower the elevation of the camera slightly too.

If things aren't quite square then obviously it can be fixed in PP, but that's really the "B" solution - easier to just get it right at the time. Speaking of PP, often you'll need to use a digital GND to even out the lighting, as often it's stronger on one side due to placement of lighting. As always, optimal sharpening makes a HUGE difference (in fact it's a defining quality that separates an amateur from a professional job)

[Shadowman]

Thanks for the replies. I'm using a crop-frame lens because Sony doesn't make a FE wide-angle lens yet for the A7R.
ut I do have another question about his composition please.... I stood back far enough to get the entire building in the frame. So, because of that, it included a lot of grass. I didn't want all that grass and would have cropped most of it out in post. Aside from turning the camera sideways (portrait) how else could I have gotten the entire building in the shot without using a t/s?

Thank you...

Dave

Dave,

In your shot from the first post, you were able to get all of the building within frame with plenty of free space on the sides. You would have still been to get the same framing had you stood a bit closer. You would lose some of the shrubbery on the sides and be able to add a bit more space on the top.

[William W]

There are two main problems in the sample image:
1. The camera viewpoint is too far away from the SUBJECT (already mentioned).
2. The other difficulty is that the building is very tall so the closer you get the more CONVERGENCE you will get if you use the gear that you have or unless you have an high cherry picker from which you can make the shot.

***

To "adequately" shoot the EXTERIOR of buildings such as the example (about 10 storeys high), you need a lens that has MOVEMENTS or you need a VIEW or FIELD CAMERA. A lens that has movements is a “Tilt-Shift Lens”, (this has already been mentioned). So if you want to pursue this endeavour, then you need to seriously consider obtaining the appropriate equipment, especially if you are shooting large/tall building exteriors. A tilt-shift lens is less necessary for interior shots, but is still very useful.

*

The use of HDRI is not a given for OUTDOOR ARCHITECTURE. I advise that you not to default to that procedure. Read the conversation on this thread which touches on HDRI and common outdoor scenes that we encounter: SOOC - Disappointing Exposure Issues - Please Help

*

If you are considering INTERIOR Architecture using AVAILABLE LIGHT only then HDRI will be of benefit in some of those shooting scenarios. But, usually the key to most INTERIOR Architectural shots is the lighting and mostly all high end work is achieved with a great degree of emphasis on the lighting. (i.e. The lighting as set, by the Photographer and not using Available Light Only).

But many interior shots can still be made with only one exposure and using only available light, for example here:


*

Architecture EXTERIORS without a Tilt-Shift Lens

You can very reasonably shoot a building about two or maybe three storeys high, with the equivalent of about a 28mm to 35mm lens (on a 135 format camera) that is about a 18mm to 23mm lens on an APS-C camera. If using a lens without movements, then, for an outdoors shot of a building you will NOT be able to align the VERTICALS (as Colin has suggested for interiors), unless you can get the Camera’s ELEVATION and the midpoint of the height of the building: if you cannot do that then you will have CONVERGENCE of the Verticals. So the technique is to get all the building in the frame with the least degree of convergence – something like this, which is a JPEG SOOC:




Then, in Post Production you can make minimal LENS CORRECTIONS to get the building straight – and then also tidy up the messy stuff if you want to, like here:



*

Sometimes, the use of CONVERGENCE can be used for emphasis, such as here:



WW

[William W]

Addendum:

"Real Estate Photography" has a widely different meaning to "Architectural Photography".

The building exterior that you posted is not typical "Real Estate Photography" – which usually has a lot of interior shots and maybe one or two exterior shots.

Also, if your sample shot was an example of the Exterior of a Building which was "For Sale" then such as shot would typically be made by an Aerial Photographer.

The point being it is unclear to me - what actually is your end goal?

WW

[acroreef]

Thanks again for all of the thoughtful responses! The example I used was just for illustration purposes. Another follow-up question please...Using my shot as the example, would a tilt/shift allow one to get much closer and still shoot the top of the building with some sky? Would a tilt/shift 24mm work? Or would one have to go as wide as say the Canon T/S 17mm?

Dave

[Manfred M]

You should be fine with the 24mm lens. The people I've heard from that use the 17mm TS mainly used it for small interior spaces. For some of the things I've shot, I've found the 24mm TS a touch too wide; in fact I'm tempted to pick up a 1.4 teleconverter to give me a longer focal length.

[Saorsa]

Another thing that might help with residential housing is a ladder that allows you to shoot level with the midline of the building.

Even a step stool will get you to a point where you can keep the camera parallel to the building.

[William W]

I concur - for Exterior Architecture a 24mm T/S on a 135 Format Camera (aka "Full Frame" camera) will be fine to shoot most medium-large buildings.

WW