Every bride's worst nightmare ...

[Colin Southern]

... at least the judge new a thing or two about photography!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjBSIvg3pjc

[Dave Humphries]

Somehow, I don't think a 1 series would have helped these 'photographers' much.

Just goes to show it's the person behind the camera, and in front of the computer PPing, that makes all the difference.

[carregwen]

Wow! and I really do mean WOW!!!

Just goes to prove (as if it were necessary) don't ever, ever, ever do wedding photography. It just gets way too emotional.

Agree with Dave, a more expensive camera would not have made any difference. Business is about making money, and from what I've seen (and continue to see) it has very little to do with producing a high-quality product - it's just about raking in the shekels.

Stack 'em high, and sell 'em cheap?

[Shadowman]

The emotions of the bride could definitely be a deciding factor, although not in this case) in a mediator's decision and arrogance/ignorance of the photographer (which did factor in this case) won't help either.

Wow! and I really do mean WOW!!!

Just goes to prove (as if it were necessary) don't ever, ever, ever do wedding photography. It just gets way too emotional.

Agree with Dave, a more expensive camera would not have made any difference. Business is about making money, and from what I've seen (and continue to see) it has very little to do with producing a high-quality product - it's just about raking in the shekels.

Stack 'em high, and sell 'em cheap?

[arith]

$2500 cheap at half the price. I think I might set myself up as a wedding photographer with an iPhone.

[carregwen]

$2500 cheap at half the price. I think I might set myself up as a wedding photographer with an iPhone.

The thing that puts me off doing weddings is the fear of something going wrong. No, that's a lie - I just don't like weddings. But, yes, an occasional $2500 hit for a bad job - I could live with that. They only end up getting divorced anyway! There's an idea - DIVORCE photography I see tearful children in poignant soft-focus shots, sparring couples in the street, lawyers rubbing their hands in glee. You get the picture? Or rather they would.

Here's another disaster http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/8315495.stm

[arith]

Nice shot of the football, the wedding photographer was missing the footy.

[rick55]

It seems that the Judge knows enough to be dangerous, when he's looking at an 8x8 print and saying, "This won't look good when it's enlarged on a hard copy." And when he's looking at a couple of the outdoor shots that were apparently from around noon, and said, "Outdoors, where there is natural lighting, it is soft, diffuse lighting, ideal for taking a picture."

But he probably realized he could get away with BS'ing the "photographer" when she couldn't even tell her what the aperture of her other lens was.

It would be interesting to know what really happened: does this person have some real photographers who work with her, and none of them (or their equipment) were available that day? It's hard to imagine someone is staying in the wedding photography business with an XTi, the kit lens, and one other lens. Even as a part-time thing.

Cheers,
Rick

[Colin Southern]

@ all ...

Yeah - very interesting clip I thought. Personally, I don't shoot weddings (and have no plans to) - but - I am spending a lot of time recently studying David Ziser's approach because a lot of it relates directly to portraiture which does interest me - and I have to say that even though I consider myself a fairly experienced photographer, I've been somewhat gob-smacked at what I'm learning from this chap (who shot his first wedding in 1962 if I remember correctly). Ironically - he's demonstrating techniques that I'm not seeing even current professional wedding photographers using (and ones that regard themselves as being good) - so when it comes to the hapless "wedding photographer" in the youtube clip, I'm afraid to say that she's at such a low level that she doesn't even know what she doesn't know yet - but interestingly, I suspect that there are a lot a little further up the food chain that are doing very mediocre work, but don't know it either. It reminds me of an old programming joke where it's said that only 5% of the programmers can write a program without using a flowchart - but 95% think they're in the 5% group!

[carregwen]

I'm afraid to say that she's at such a low level that she doesn't even know what she doesn't know yet

I love that line.

BTW: I used to write programs without a flowchart. Honest. That's why I was so bad.

[Colin Southern]

I love that line.

BTW: I used to write programs without a flowchart. Honest. That's why I was so bad.

LOL - I used to write assembly language programs WITH a flow chart - and they were STILL bad! (that was another life though!).

[Alis]

Colin, I did not know you watch these midday shows!

I have a friend who bought a T1i about a year ago and was not sure whether to upgrade to a better camera. I just send him this clip to help him make the decision, I mean the way the Judge was talking about Rebel was so degrading

Nice clip, more suits the Jerry Springer show than a real court proceeding. People interrupting each other, quarreling in the court out of order, not even a gavel at the end even?

[rick55]

but interestingly, I suspect that there are a lot a little further up the food chain that are doing very mediocre work, but don't know it either.

Surprisingly enough, my wife just popped up some photos of our niece's wedding on a facebook album, and said, "Hey, look at this." This is apparently a serious professional photographer (his website says, "international wedding photographer"). I certainly wasn't impressed with the photos. He was generally good with the light, although while they were generally quite warm-toned, one popped up in the middle looking quite blue. He had some trouble with focus/DOF: it was absolutely glaring in one shot of the bride and groom with the cake, where the bride was in focus, and the groom was beyond the focus limit. And in a posed shot of the groom holding flowers, the focus was on the flowers. Others were just generally fuzzy.

The compositions weren't very good, to my eye. Some of this is understandable: in the scrum at a reception, you're going to get someone with their back turned right in the foreground of the scene you want.

There were quite a few that could have been improved with some time post-processing, but I expect that may not be cost-effective.

So I got an instant example of Colin's point about photographers higher in the food chain. I imagine he had at least a couple of lenses, because there was a strong fish-eye effect in a number of shots. And if he didn't use fill flash, he had a great lens. But I've seen lots of better pictures on this forum by self-declared amateurs, asking for advice on how to improve.

Cheers,
Rick

[Shadowman]

When asked what speed, what f/stop did you use the photographer avoided the question, yes he (the judge) was prepared to rule over this particular case.

It seems that the Judge knows enough to be dangerous, when he's looking at an 8x8 print and saying, "This won't look good when it's enlarged on a hard copy." And when he's looking at a couple of the outdoor shots that were apparently from around noon, and said, "Outdoors, where there is natural lighting, it is soft, diffuse lighting, ideal for taking a picture."

But he probably realized he could get away with BS'ing the "photographer" when she couldn't even tell her what the aperture of her other lens was.

It would be interesting to know what really happened: does this person have some real photographers who work with her, and none of them (or their equipment) were available that day? It's hard to imagine someone is staying in the wedding photography business with an XTi, the kit lens, and one other lens. Even as a part-time thing.

Cheers,
Rick

[Colin Southern]

Colin, I did not know you watch these midday shows!

Nice try Ali, but I discovered the link on David's blog. Also, he has a gazillion free techniques videos here.

PS: You all might like to check David Ziser out -- I've got a LOT of respect for the contributions this chap is making to "furthering the cause".

[Maritimer1]

Thanks for the link, Colin. I picked out a video to watch on hand-holding the camera at lower shutter speeds and came out with a good tip (elbows tight at at sides and hold breath for a burst of shots.) Previously, I think I just breathed out and hoped for the best. I've noticed that I tend to tip the camera downward a bit when I handhold, so maybe this will help.

Do folks in other parts "trash the dress" as part of the wedding photography experience? It's becoming more popular in North America. Brides will jumps in pools/the ocean, rip the dress, hop on greasy old tractors etc etc for the after ceremony shots.

[carregwen]

Do folks in other parts "trash the dress" as part of the wedding photography experience? It's becoming more popular in North America. Brides will jumps in pools/the ocean, rip the dress, hop on greasy old tractors etc etc for the after ceremony shots.

It might be much more interesting to trash the dress before the ceremony. A bit like buying jeans 'ready-distressed'?

[Colin Southern]

Do folks in other parts "trash the dress" as part of the wedding photography experience? It's becoming more popular in North America. Brides will jumps in pools/the ocean, rip the dress, hop on greasy old tractors etc etc for the after ceremony shots.

I can't say that I've heard of it much in New Zealand - probably because we're a practical race of people, and the bride knows that she'll probably need the dress again in a few years!

[Blazing fire]

Somehow, I don't think a 1 series would have helped these 'photographers' much.

Just goes to show it's the person behind the camera, and in front of the computer PPing, that makes all the difference.

Agreed. However, a high ISO camera with a good large prime on a monopod, eg D3s with 200mm F/2 can allow fast enough shutter speeds for sharp photos. For church lighting, where there is natural light in addition to artificial light, I expect somewhere between 1/125 to 1/250 @ 3200ISO, F/2. IMO, that's adequate for sharp photos 75% of the time.

[Colin Southern]

Agreed. However, a high ISO camera with a good large prime on a monopod, eg D3s with 200mm F/2 can allow fast enough shutter speeds for sharp photos. For church lighting, where there is natural light in addition to artificial light, I expect somewhere between 1/125 to 1/250 @ 3200ISO, F/2. IMO, that's adequate for sharp photos 75% of the time.

I agree also. I suspect that there becomes a "chicken -v- egg" dynamic though -- people who shoot weddings with a Rebel + kit lens probably only do so because they can't afford professional equipment - and the reason they can't afford it it because they're not producing professional results and marketing themselves in a professional manner, and thus not receiving an income big enough to pay for pro gear.

Personally, I feel that if someone agrees to "help out at a family / friend wedding etc" then that's fine if everyone is up-front about everything; it's probably still "lambs to the slaughter" as we say, but I believe that people can agree to anything knowing the consequences if they so choose - but - if someone hangs out their tablet as a "professional" then certain standards of performance are implied - and if one can't perform at that level then one shouldn't take money to perform at that level.

When thrown in the deep end, many sink.