Colors Not Found In Nature

[Unnatural Color]

I'm investigating the phrase "colors not found in nature." How can I determine which colors or RGB settings would be considered colors not found in nature? Can I create such colors by using RGB settings? How does anyone know if a particular color is in fact not found in nature? Any information on this subject is very welcome. (I'm sorry that I've omitted the "u" in "colour"--I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic. But "u" is a letter always found in "nature.")

[pnodrog]

I hope you are not looking for a simple answer.... Most of what we see in "nature?" is reflected light from surfaces and are dependent on the pigments, dyes, surface properties and the characteristics of the incident light. Highly saturated or very narrow spectral frequency spread colours are less usual and is probably why we like the colours generated by semi transparent materials like gems and stained glass windows etc. We are also fascinated (well at least as children) with the colours generated by rainbows and prisms.

You may have to define the term nature a bit more fully before you can have an answer. If you include the whole of the universe and can accept the smallest speck of a colour for the briefest period of time then there may be very few that do not exist .

I will watch this thread with interest.

[FootLoose]

Check out Dan Margulis' work on the LAB colour space. He has a couple of books and two very interesting video tutorials on Kelbyone website - which are probably more current than the books.

Before you worry about "colours not found in nature" you should try to define "nature".

[Colin Southern]

It opens a real can of worms.

Does a colour still exist if we can't see it? What colour is it really if we see it as a different colour? Are we talking about colours we can capture with a camera? Or see on a monitor? Or see with our eyes? (they're all different).

[pnodrog]

A problem arises that many of the colours not found in nature cannot be produced using either print or any RGB based display or colour space.

Another difficulty is that because my cat and I never see eye to eye with my white balance settings you will need to limit your definition of natural colours to the response of a typical non-colour blind human or it may get a little complicated...

[ajohnw]

There will be colours in nature that can't be reproduced as well. As Colin mentions it's a bit of a rats nest even to the extent that colour vision can be trained. Some one who does a lot of it will notice differences far more easily than some one who doesn't.

The actual camera is in need of calibration as well if precise colour recording is needed but it will still have to stay within in it's own rgb combination limitations.

People might be inclined to think that gamuts are 2d things. They are 3d and can be compared this way. Any colour that is out of a particular gamut can not be displayed. There is an applet for this here. Unfortunately it doesn't include the visual gamut but prophoto probably gets near.

http://www.openphotographicsociety.o...b-gamut-viewer

What this doesn't show is that some gamuts are coarser than others. This can mean that a gamut that covers less of the total colour space volume can actually show colours that the larger volume one can't. eg Adobe RGB and sRGB

John
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[Mike Buckley]

The axiom I've often heard is that there are no colors produced my mankind that can't be found in nature. Based on my own anecdotal experience, I have no reason to disbelieve it.

[Shadowman]

The only color not found in nature is "plaid".

[FrankMi]

The only color not found in nature is "plaid".

I thought plaid was a pattern?

[Glenn NK]

I think discussing the "U" in colour is more meaningful that what colours exist in nature.

Sorry, but I think you're chasing rainbows.

[flashback]

We only see in a very narrow band of the elecromagnetic spectrum so essentially, we don't know what we don't know. Bees see in ultraviolet, pit vipers in infrared, my blue is likely different from your blue. And there are some people who's eyes can see closer to infrared and can distinguish camouflage from living green plants.

My guess is that there are colors in nature we'll never see simply because our eyes can't detect it. But if we can produce a (visible spectrum) color then I would be willing to bet it can be found somewhere in nature.

[Thlayle]

Then there's "air glow" that your digital sensor will record in night shots but you will not see it with the unaided eye. Not a color found in nature?

[Magwai]

The colour palette in the film monsters university seems very synthetic to me. Might be some ideas there.

[davidedric]

I'm afraid that I can't see the meaning in the original post , though I note that the OP is "investigating the phrase" which suggests to me that an etymological analysis of the phrase is needed first.

Turning the question on its head, it's certainly true that a very limited range of pigments can be produced by mammals, and I believe most if not all can be seen in domestic tabby cats.

Dave

[Geoff F]

When shooting real nature and require true colours, Andrew, I shoot Raw but also do a Custom White Balance before shooting. That usually gets me to a fairy close starting point. Which is much easier than trying to remember what were the correct colours and messing about to recreate them with editing.

[pnodrog]

I'm afraid that I can't see the meaning in the original post , though I note that the OP is "investigating the phrase" which suggests to me that an etymological analysis of the phrase is needed first.

Turning the question on its head, it's certainly true that a very limited range of pigments can be produced by mammals, and I believe most if not all can be seen in domestic tabby cats.

Dave

A tabby cat as a reference - I just knew cats would have something to do with it - now we are getting somewhere....

[Glenn NK]

Turning the question on its head, it's certainly true that a very limited range of pigments can be produced by mammals, and I believe most if not all can be seen in domestic tabby cats.
Dave

True enough - and then there are the colourations found in flowers and in bugs. Wow.

G

[Unnatural Color]

Many thanks to all who have replied. Many posts have brought up fascinating theories.

My original question comes from a faint memory I have that some software manual or how-to book used the phrase "colors not found in nature" in much the same way that software will warn us that we've got a particular color that is outside our printer's gamut or monitor display gamut. That is, software may produce certain colors that won't print, certain colors that won't transmit faithfully via the internet, and certain colors that are not found in nature. This last captured my interest, particularly because I wondered how anyone could know this. I considered that perhaps a spectral analysis of some colors might yield graphs with particularly odd shapes--sudden spikes and valleys, discontinuous curves, for example--and some people might therefore conclude that such colors wouldn't be found in nature. Does anyone else recall coming across such a discussion?

My goal is to take some outdoor video footage shot with natural light and change some of the original colors to those not found in nature. But I'm not sure how to proceed without knowing which colors would qualify as not found in nature.

Thank you to Footloose. I've started looking into Dan Margulis, but I haven't had the time to determine if he addresses this question directly.

For those who have brought up the question of how our eyes and brain perceive colors and whether colors exist if we can't see them (or whether they exist at all!), I'd recommend The Objective Eye by John Hyman (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2006). This is an academic text and traces philosophical questions about color perception from Plato through Comte and Descartes up to our time. Heady and fascinating.

[RSPIII]

I can't help but feel there's some missing element to either your or my understanding of color theory and reproduction. Just as an example, you say, "... certain colors that won't transmit faithfully via the internet." Do you mean to say that certain colors cannot be digitized? Or that our current digital expressions of color (such as r=x, g=y, b=z) are not sufficient for some colors?

[chauncey]

C'mon guys, let's cut Andrew some slack...we all understand what he means to say even if inaccurately stated. Having said that, I have no clue as to what are his goals and I don't know video processing...
but in PS, changing colors into something weird, funky, and unnatural is as simple as moving various adjustment layer sliders to and fro.