Problems with duotones in LR

[Antonio Correia]

Hello everybody !

I start by making a black and white image, saving it like as tif file, then returning back to LR to apply the duotone.

However, several of the 41 images I want to print look like having different tones, perhaps just because they are very different in lighting modes and tonalities.

I am rather upset because I wanted to print them in duotone but I have to go back and print them all in simple and plain black and white, so I can have a persistent and consistent images in the exposition I am about to do.

Any help please for future works ?
Thank you !

[Mike Buckley]

However, several of the 41 images I want to print look like having different tones, perhaps just because they are very different in lighting modes and tonalities.

Please clarify that: tones that are different from what?

[Antonio Correia]

Please clarify that: tones that are different from what?

The tones are different between one image and the other as both were photographed under different light conditions and required slightly different treatments as well.

Here for example both images have slightly different tones...

Thank you for your interest !

[Shadowman]

Antonio,

If you are referring to batch processing, the lighting conditions have to be similar otherwise you'll get different results per image. I haven't printed from LR yet but have processed some images in LR through an add-on program (NIK), output processing through NIK has you consider print or display quality, viewing distance, resolution, and if I'm not mistaken lighting conditions where viewed. Perhaps its possible for you to group some of the 41 images based on similar lighting conditions and print based on similar characteristics.

[Polar01]

Antonio I was to a talk in early June given by an Andy Biggs, he does a lot of B&W with duotones as you do. He uses LR but said he, I believe that he had to do some work around or something as I use Photoshop CC I did not pay complete attention.
He did say if we had any questions to e-mail him, it might be worth a try.
Andy's e-mail is andybiggs@andybiggs.com

Cheers: Allan

[Mike Buckley]

Antonio,

I have no experience with duotones, which explains why I'm especially interested in your thread as a learning opportunity. If the first two images are duotones, they are such subtle applications of the process that I would not know that without you explaining it. So, please clarify whether they are duotones and, if so, please provide the straight black-and-white versions of them.

[Antonio Correia]

First let me tell you about my work flow. It goes like this.
-
I import the raw photographs into LR.
I export the one I wish to work on (let me call the image as AC.*) to CS5 with the settings bellow:

I work the image in CS5 under Profoto RGB 16 bits using Nik plug-ins
(As a variation I work in B&W just using LR with good results as the settings are in my own eyes, if you know what I mean.)
I save the file as AC.tif file. It is now in B&W.
I make a copy of the file AC.tif within CS5. The program names the file as AC copy.tif

I close the original file in CS5
I go to LR and apply the tone preset.
I export to CS5 this way:

I move then the layer to the AC copy.tif file like shown bellow

Last moves:
I close AC.tif and I save AC copy.tif as AC.tif replacing the original by another one with the two layers.

A bit confusing and lots of work I think. But it works just fine. Or at least it used to, until I saw the slight difference in tone when printed.
-
In fact I am slowly moving into the duotone area/option because they have more tonal range than pure B&W as stated here and I quote:
"...Duotones increase the tonal range of a grayscale image. Although a grayscale reproduction can display up to 256 levels of gray, a printing press can reproduce only about 50 levels of gray per ink. For this reason, a grayscale image printed with only black ink can look significantly coarser than the same image printed with two, three, or four inks, each individual ink reproducing up to 50 levels of gray..."
-
I do not think that the conditions have to be similar to get similar results when applying on a black and white picture but I may be wrong John... I am not referring to batch processing as I do not even know what that is
-
Thank you Allan. I will e-mail Andy Biggs but I do understand if he doesn't want to teach me.
-
Mike, here are two images: One in pure black and white and the other in Duotone. Thank you.

Thank you for your attention.

[Mike Buckley]

This thread has indeed been very educational for me on several levels. Apologies in advance for the long post but I don't know how to explain all this stuff in a short post.

My understanding of the definition of "duo toning" was incorrect. As best as I can tell, I now understand that "duo toning" is applying a tone to only the shadows and "split toning" is applying one tone to the shadows and another tone to the highlights.

Notice that the Lightroom Split Toning panel has sliders that allow you to apply either duo toning or split toning. (More about that below.)

Before going further, it will be helpful to explain what batch processing is that John brought up. Batch processing is selecting multiple images, selecting a single or multiple adjustments, and "telling" the software to apply the selected adjustment(s) to all of the selected images. Once you have done that, the software automatically opens all of the selected images, applies the selected adjustment(s) to them and saves them.

Instead, you apparently open one image at a time, apply the toning adjustment and save the image. If there are other images ready, you repeat that process with each image until the toning has been applied to all of the images.

Whether you use the batch process or the manual process, the results are the same.

Back to your issue: I am confident that John has correctly identified it in that you are apparently applying the same adjustment to all of the images. He thought you might have been doing so using a batch process but the results are the same using a manual process.

As an example, assume you have two images. One background is a luminosity value of 200 and the other is 230. When applying the same toning to the two backgrounds, they will will look very different and I'll explain why.

If you are using a Lightroom B&W Toned preset, notice that the values in the Split Toning panel and the Basic panel change. In the Split Toning panel, the Balance value changes and that results in the toning being applied differently to your hypothetical background luminosity values of 200 and 230.

In the Basic Panel, the sliders that affect the white balance sometimes change and the sliders that affect the tone curve always change. That proves that Lightroom presets aren't just applying a tone; they also make changes to the black-and-white elements of your image after you have gone to the trouble to get them exactly as you like them.

If you are instead using a custom preset that only involves the toning, you are using the Split Toning panel to configure either duo toning or split toning. There is only one way to prevent the toning from changing your hypothetical background luminosity values of 200 and 230. That's despite that those values are clearly highlight tones and that duo toning by definition is apparently supposed to affect only the shadow tones. The method you must use is to apply duo toning and to set the Balance value to +100 and/or the Saturation value to zero.

In summary, John seems to have hit the nail on the head that multiple images that are different enough in luminosity values will be altered differently even though you are applying the same toning. The solutions are to either make sure the multiple images are sufficiently similar before applying the same toning or to apply a different custom toning to each image.

[Shadowman]

Antonio, thanks for providing your work flow method and details on duo toning.

Mike, thanks for your detailed observations and summary.

Allan, thanks for the resource.

[lk1wzhu4aie]

nice sharing

[Antonio Correia]

I am sorry guys if I took such a long time to come back here.

Thank you ! I have solved the problem.