My Bee problems

[Mark von Kanel]

Well the good news is im going to be published The bad news is ive got to suss out how to take the sodding picture .

A local bee keeping expert has written a book and asked me to use my expertise (HA HA) to take pictures for the book. I have explained that this isnt my area and although i have the gear, i do in fact have no idea on how to use it in this discipline ... The good thing is i came in at the right price... free... Having had no time to practice i accompanied the keeper out today to " have a go " failed miserably but learnt a thing or two...

So i thought id pick the real experts brains on here and ask for opinions on how to achieve what the keeper wants .... below are a couple of today's captures as you can see they didnt turn out very well.

the kit Im using is as follows
Nikon D800
Nikor 105 f2.8 macro
2x sb200 on lens mount with diffusers

First image shot at f13, 100iso, 1/30 Flash set ttl +1ev



Second image shot at f8 100 iso 1/30 flash set ttl + 1ev



Now im sitting here analysing my results and the shoot in general and noted the following points:

Shooting in a bee suit is a pain in the ass.
I hate bees and am scared s***less of them.... unfortunate as my wife keeps them....
Bee suit v hot sweat dripping into eyes maybe wear a sweatband?
Sun was out... pick a shady day ( i should know better but as i was just practicing it wasnt important)
In order to follow the queen around the frame the keeper had to hand hold it and turn it around and i had to re compose each time

Basically because it was such a new environment to me and i was NOT comfortable with thousands of stinging insects flying around, i forgot all of my basic photographic principles! Not once during the shoot did i think to up my ISO to get a faster shutter speed.... I fixated on the flash freezing the action but didnt think about there being too much ambient for that to happen .


So what i need to do is to achieve shots with the above composition, and for the next shoot im thinking of using 2 x sb900 on stands with pocket wizards, set them 3/4 feet apart and ask the keeper to move the frame only in the area between the flashes.... Ill try to come up with a way of mounting them to the camera but with anything other that the built in diffuser this will be hard to use.
I think i might be better using a longer focal distance and rather than getting realy close shoot from 4 feet or so and use the d800 massive files to crop in, this should increase my DOF and allow for focusing margin.

Any tips on lighting, shooting settings, technique and anything else much appreciated. Thanks

[truonda]

Is the subject blur intended in these shots? I feel that 1/30 is definitely way too slow for these little buggers.

[bnnrcn]

Hi Mark I would suggest you should start a thread in the 'nature' section and give a link to this thread. There are many macro shooters there and they may not have a look at this part of the website because they are usually too busy with the insects Just in case..

[Geoff F]

My suggestions, Mark, would start by saying if you want to shoot a number of bees moving around on the comb then forget macro lenses and try with a relatively close focusing 'normal lens'.

That is what I do for flowers and I get a much better focus depth. Use the macro lens for close up shots of individual bees, or groups of 2 or 3.

Whether you use flash is always open for discussion. It depends on the available light and any unexpected problems which will usually occur.

When shooting insects, or flowers, with flash, I set the camera manually to suit the scene (1/200 F14 Iso 200 to 400 would be typical) then set the flash compensation as required (ETTL flash).

A tripod is always my preferred choice but that may not be possible here. I prefer manual focusing on a tripod but working with gloves on moving subjects may mean that auto is actually better in this case. With moving bees, I wouldn't go below 1/200.

When shooting without flash, because it is giving too many 'hotspots' I set the camera for Aperture or Shutter Priority depending on which is most important, but always keep an eye on the other settings. Without flash I often have to increase my Iso to 400 or even more to get suitable shutter speed and focus depth.

ps. I had a swarm land on a fence in my garden earlier this year.

http://www.pbase.com/crustacean/imag...2/original.jpg

Because it was late in the afternoon and rain with strong winds were forecast, I made a temporary shelter for them and called a beekeeper friend who arrived the next day to collect them.

[Mark von Kanel]

Thanks Binnur, you would think with how long ive been on here that id realize that there was a nature section!! maybe a mod will move it for me? Geoff, your suggestions are taken on board and that seems to be the way im going, ill stiil use the macro lens but not at a close distance... as i said above i normally use the lens for portraiture.....ive been practicing and ive tried this (image below) its taken at about 4 feet away but with a 100% crop the DOF is quite good...heres one taken of some honey combe at about 4ft. and then a tight crop using the magic of the d800 file size its hand held with nikor 105 f2.8 itgives about 2,5cm of DOF which should do what i need.

settings iso 400 f11 1/200



And a HUGE crop!



Im off out again tomorrow for another go, hopefully the thread will have found the attention of the macro shooters by then!

[truonda]

Really nice cropping! Well done!

[Brownbear]

Hi Mark,

I'm not an expert and I have no experience using flash, but I do like photographing insects and I find that even if they are not flying about they are moving pretty fast. I also have a Nikon camera and that same macro lens, and when I've photographed bugs that have turned out it is typically at a much faster shutter speed (1/250 to even 1/1000) and at higher isos (400, 800 and even 3200 (for a dragon fly in flight).

Auto ISO on Nikon cameras is very helpful to me when I'm not familiar with the photographing the subject and/or under changing lighting conditions. Perhaps try Manual with your chosen aperture, (f11 looks good to me but perhaps it can be smaller), with your ISO set to the max your willing to compromise on, say starting with ISO 1600, and then you can try a few test shots and adjust either your shutter speed or your aperture based on what you see in your viewfinder, and then if you decide you can get away with a lower ISO, you can lower it.

[Cantab]

...Im off out again tomorrow for another go, hopefully the thread will have found the attention of the macro shooters by then!

Mark, have you seen this thread, with hundreds of macro insects: Post your insects ? For some reason, no one has posted to it since the end of 2013. Geoff is one of the insect macro experts here at CiC.

[Mark von Kanel]

Thanks all for the advice im off to try again, Christina i need to watch the ISO because of the crop size ill set a max of 1600 i think but even at that im not overly happy with the noise levels ill shoot 1/250 to start if i go faster im up in high speed sync territory with the PW's and that will reduce the power of the flashes.

anyway im off to try again. Ill post my results!

[Geoff F]

Mark, have you seen this thread, with hundreds of macro insects: Post your insects ? For some reason, no one has posted to it since the end of 2013. Geoff is one of the insect macro experts here at CiC.

We did talk about starting another similar thread this year, Bruce, but the general feeling was that those threads became overly long so it was preferred to have single postings. But keeping everything together did overcome the problem of people missing posts if they were absent for a few days.

[Cantab]

We did talk about starting another similar thread this year, Bruce, but the general feeling was that those threads became overly long so it was preferred to have single postings. But keeping everything together did overcome the problem of people missing posts if they were absent for a few days.

Yes, as someone periodically absent, I liked the group long thread as it ensured I didn't miss new individual posts.

[Dave Humphries]

you would think with how long I've been on here that I'd realize that there was a Nature section!! Maybe a mod will move it for me?

This thread has been moved by a mod

But I can't help any further with the Bee problems

[Stagecoach]

Hi Mark

I would suggest your priorities here, in order, are freezing the movement, being aware of the DoFs you are going to achieve at various distances with your FL, and having a set-up that you do not have to keep playing around with due to the circumstances (being in a space suit surrounded by stingers and pretty hot).

I would rely totally on flash at the highest sync speed you can get and whilst the SR200s are good I'm not sure these would be adequate at 4ft distance. Just as a test in bright daylight I used my D300 with one SB600 on a 105mm at 4ft at 1/320, f/18, ISO200, in TTL and plenty of power for good exposure so your 900s would be no problem. There should be no need to use greater than base ISO. If using two flash units I would vary power between them and have them angled so as not to give too flat lighting.

As for DoFs it appears you have checked these out already.

One other thing to be wary of is to try and keep the camera on the same plane as the honey comb due to the limited DoF otherwise you will get similar problems as in the second shot of the first posts.

Whilst I'm far more used to getting in real close, not with bees but wasps if I was doing this I would spend some time practising using a similar 'area' with flash settings versus aperture and any compensation needed so that once suited I'm fairly confident all I have to worry about is my positioning, focusing and leave the camera/lights to look after themselves.

Very much look forward to seeing your results.

Grahame

[Mark von Kanel]

Thanks Grahame, great advise. Do you know Jo Dunn? runs a dive center in Figi

My second attempt was much better (couldnt have been much worse!)

This time i shot at 1/250 f11 400 iso, my wife kindly displayed the bees for me. I used 2 x sb900s with the small diffusers that they come with, as you can see below these settings were well on the way to killing the ambient light

OOC shot



100%ish crop



Well as you can see i am getting there but im not happy with it yet! the quality of the crop isnt good enough, i think its noise but im not certain, my camera should be capable of producing much better results, in fact i know it is! With the settings i used its unlikely to be camera shake because the shutter speed was plenty high enough and as i have significantly reduced the ambient the flash duration should have frozen all of the motion.

next outing, im going back to 100 iso but in the mean time im going to experiment with the focus distance and DOF so i can get as close as possible but still keep the DOF that i need this will reduce the crop size and maximise the quality i also only have one portable soft box so i need to play with the light to get it more diffuse...

Please keep the advice coming

thanks all

[Cantab]

Mark, your most recent shots are greatly improved over the initial ones. I've found this thread very interesting and look forward to the next installment of photos.

[Brownbear]

Yes, nice shot. I don't see any noise. I too am interested in this thread. And as Grahame is back, along with Geoff and hopefully others advising you, and your posts makes for a very informative thread.

[Peeshan]

Just a thought: since you said in your first post that you are uncomfortable around bees, maybe try using a telephoto lens instead of macro ? That could give you some distance.

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi all thanks for your help and words of encouragement i started a related thread of DOF here, DOF calculator i was quite surprised at the theoretical difference in circle of confusion for my particular lens / distance combination. a difference of 15cm in the focal distance 55cm/70cm give a difference of 1.5cm in the DOF/COC which is quite a lot given my subject matter and wanting to keep my crop minimal.

So today im going to set the shoot up with my spare bee frame and im going to try different lens / distance combinations to get the optimal results. im also going to play with the lights to get those right as well this way ill have it all set for the next shoot and i can just focus (sorry) on getting the shot!

[Mark von Kanel]

Just a thought: since you said in your first post that you are uncomfortable around bees, maybe try using a telephoto lens instead of macro ? That could give you some distance.

Peeshan, id have to be in the next city to be far away enough for me!

[Mark von Kanel]

Ive had no time to play with the DOF shoot i said that id do, but i hpe to get round to it tomorrow and to go out and do the actual bee shoot over the weekend. My wife had a new coloney delivered yesterday.

They were bred by the bee expert that im doing the shoot for, hes trying to re establish the native black bee in to the UK by selective breeding, so its looking like theses are to be my models!

The new arrivals being delivered



My wife Kim moving the bees into their new home



Kim sneaking a peep at her new brood.



Hope to havbe some actual relevent pics on DOF and lighting tomorrow!