Lightroom andThe use of layers

Lots of applications will produce sidecar files Glenn. They can also be used to batch process a number of images.

I understand PS workflow file saves just like GIMP's are rather large.

Of late raw development for me is to get all of the information into what might be called the visual workspace complete with room for PP - spare histogram space at the dark and light end. :) I blame Colin and also thank him at times. It can result in some rather flat images initially but if the info is there it can be modified and if there is no loss there aren't any problems either. it just means that any black clipping etc is added later. I even tend to do the same thing with jpg's except with those it's usually pretty obvious where histogram space is needed.

One package that hasn't been mentioned is Corel's After Shot Pro. I just used up a 30 day trial. It has modeless layers for adjustments and another type for healing and cloning. It uses layer masks transparently - they are simply drawn or painted on the image itself. One of it's outstanding features is it's ability to modify colours either generic red green blue etc or ones selected from the image. These and everything else can be used selectively on the image as well via the masks. If any one wants to try it I would suggest finding and watching a few videos on workflow done by one person first. They are posted by this person

http://www.youtube.com/user/Photoaka...after+shot+pro

There is a comment after one of them " I never thought of using a contrast adjustment layer" so do watch them.

One thing that foxed me is that I quickly found that the mouse scroll wheel altered the size of brushes but couldn't change the size of the feathering. Corel didn't seem to want to explain either. It turns out that if the mouse is position in the feathering region the mouse wheel adjusts that. Finding the layer pallet doesn't exactly smack people in the face either, On other aspect is that if an area is outlined the size of the brush seems to set the feathering.

Pass in some respects on suitability really but it does offer a very definite taste of adjustment layers at rather low cost and is very easy to use. :) I might actually buy it not that I need it really. A bit of SAS. It too saves sidecar files and doesn't like being run via right click from directories with other applications xml files in it.

John
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Again, lots of helpful comments everybody, thank you.

I am not set on one plan yet, there are various ones to consider, but I have learned a lot about what I think I may actually need, given my style, which is what I wanted to do.

Just for the sake of mentioning it, as I may not have made it clear earlier, I just finished a 30 day trial of LR. Apart from that I have used my camera's RAW file converter, mostly.

John's reply was helpful, a few posts back, about how layers are used, but it was sent while I was replying to Cristina so it looked like I ignored it:)

Hi,

I found this introductory video extremely useful to help me understand how OnOne's PPS uses layers and masking:

http://www.ononesoftware.com/trainin...ayers-masking/

Dave

I forgot to say that I really like the LR catalogue and prefer the user interface on LR for processing and also for viewing my images. As I sharpen all my photos in Photoshop they are changed to PSDs and saved in my windows gallery so I don't have to worry about losing my final edits.

I also prefer the lens corrections and the fix for chromatic aberration in LR. These two things seem to be different/more complicated in Photoshop CC at this point in my learning curve. I also like the way I can click on part of an image in LR and drag the curves tool, ie; shadows, midtones or highlights to adjust even though the edit image is applied to the entire image.

I was surprised by Christina's comment about LR and graphics tablets. Surely that is a set up problem? Having said that I run Linux and it couldn't care less which I use for what ever in any package. Graphic tablets generally just generate keyboard short cuts for the bells and whistles such as turning over the pen for the eraser, using scroll wheels or buttons etc. Usually these are standardised on an operating system basis but the software that comes with the tablet should allow them to be reconfigured.

There does seem to be setup tutorials about

http://www.lightroomfanatic.com/tuto...for-lightroom/

I do know that Wacom are popular but they do have a rather serious competitor that also makes high quality tablets

http://www.hanvon.com/en/products/ta...aster_iii.html

There is also some one in Germany that maintains Linux drivers for them. It's possible to map them to the screen as desired so the screen profile needn't match the tablet. My only problem is I sometimes wish I hadn't bought the larger one. I went small to large and maybe to the middle would have been a better option.

John
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Thank you John.

I will check this out. To the best of my recollection the product box for my pen says it can only be used with Photoshop but it is something I just assumed was a fact, that I haven't researched or tried to set up. If it is possible to use my pen in LR that would be very nice, indeed. :)

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Originally Posted by ajohnw

I was surprised by Christina's comment about LR and graphics tablets. Surely that is a set up problem? Having said that I run Linux and it couldn't care less which I use for what ever in any package. Graphic tablets generally just generate keyboard short cuts for the bells and whistles such as turning over the pen for the eraser, using scroll wheels or buttons etc. Usually these are standardised on an operating system basis but the software that comes with the tablet should allow them to be reconfigured.

There does seem to be setup tutorials about

http://www.lightroomfanatic.com/tuto...for-lightroom/

I do know that Wacom are popular but they do have a rather serious competitor that also makes high quality tablets

http://www.hanvon.com/en/products/ta...aster_iii.html

There is also some one in Germany that maintains Linux drivers for them. It's possible to map them to the screen as desired so the screen profile needn't match the tablet. My only problem is I sometimes wish I hadn't bought the larger one. I went small to large and maybe to the middle would have been a better option.

John
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Originally Posted by Christina S

Thank you John.

I will check this out. To the best of my recollection the product box for my pen says it can only be used with Photoshop but it is something I just assumed was a fact, that I haven't researched or tried to set up. If it is possible to use my pen in LR that would be very nice, indeed. :)

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Christina; that sounds rather strange to me, as your pen / tablet essentially have similar functionality to a mouse. My Wacom Intuos tablet / stylus work with all of my software, not just Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.

I'm afraid the discussion about digital pens is beyond what I'm familiar with, but it sounds like an interesting idea.

Looks like the video Dave shared would be worth looking at.

Christina - I also have a Bamboo, and it works just fine.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Nicks Pics

I'm afraid the discussion about digital pens is beyond what I'm familiar with, but it sounds like an interesting idea.
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As Manfred mentioned at a basic level they emulate a mouse so will work with any mouse driven application - or should. The advantage they have is more pen movement for a given movement on the screen when compared with a mouse which can help accuracy. Too big a tablet can be a problem for some. An artist can accurately paint curves using their entire arm or any part of it. Mere mortals are usually better at doing that with wrist and finger movements - especially if they have used a mouse. So large tablets can required too large a pen movement for many.

Usually the pen has buttons on it for left and right click and something on the tablet will behave in the same fashion as a mouse's scroll wheel. The tablets also often have additional buttons on them. These should be programmed to provide the key presses that applications use to modify the behaviour of mouse clicks. The GIMP for instance makes a lot of use of shift, ctrl and alt. Any other buttons can be programmed to generate any keyboard short cut that the application recognises. The idea is to mostly remove the need for the keyboard when the tablet is being used.

A default tablet set up will map the entire screen to the tablet so it can be used in the same fashion as a mouse as far as the applications graphical interface and the entire desktop is concerned. This will happen even if the tablets aspect ratio doesn't match the screen's. People cope but this can be remapped but will leave some of the tablet area unused.

Some pens are pressure sensitive so that can be used to vary the opacity of brush strokes directly without moving the applications sliders about. I keep meaning to set mine up like that as I think it might encourage me to use it more. I'm fairly precise with a mouse and lots of brush operations benefits from bold brush work anyway. Some pens are also tilt sensitive. I feel that this is of limited use for photo retouching but on occasion I have altered the aspect ratio of brushes.

If some some one does have a tablet which they find is too big it should be possible to map just some part of it to the screen. Again I should do that with mine. My space is limited so the tablet is under the keyboard when not in use so essentially I often can't be bothered to use it.

Good/bad tablets. Maybe the main aspect is a battery and lead free pen as batteries add weight and go flat. Leads get in the way. I did have one of those a long time ago and used it a lot. Then sufficient buttons to control the pen button presses to save using the keyboard. Maybe undo / redo too. Some tablets can have so many that specific application tools can be added as well. Then comes how well it picks up that the pen is touching the tablet and how far away it can be while movement is still tracked by the cursor - some scope there is handy when the pen is put down and worked picked up again.

John
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Originally Posted by Christina S

One of the features that I especially like about Adobe Photoshop/Elements is that I can use my Bamboo Pen which gives lets me select things with more control and finesse than I can manage in Lightroom

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Hi Christina, i use my wacom tab in LR all the time, it makes the whole thing lots easier to use.

Okay guys, let's take this another step...has anyone tossed the keyboard/mouse for a tablet for everything? :confused:

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Originally Posted by chauncey

Okay guys, let's take this another step...has anyone tossed the keyboard/mouse for a tablet for everything? :confused:

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Mouse/keyboard yes its been tossed for photo editing but using word with a tablet could be a challenge! ;) some keyboard short cuts can sometimes be useful but the wacom intus 4 which i use seems to even make this a thing of the past but my editing needs are not very complex!

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Originally Posted by chauncey

Okay guys, let's take this another step...has anyone tossed the keyboard/mouse for a tablet for everything? :confused:

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That's kind of like asking "I just got a new hammer, does that mean I can throw out the screwdriver". I guess you could use a hammer to drive in screws, but it won't work all that well, and likewise, trying to pound in nails with a screwdriver isn't going to be the best way to go.

Different tools serve different purposes...

One of those things that just popped into my head...point taken. ;)

Thank you John, Manfred, Mark and Dave for letting me know that my Bamboo Tablet should work with Lightroom. Being able to use it while processing photos in Lightroom will be wonderful.

I have the Bamboo CTH-470 model and the specs say it works with Photoshop Elements so I just assumed that this was the only program it worked with. Albeit I should've noticed when I signed up for the cloud program that it worked with Photoshop CC. I will figure out how to install it.

Nick... My sincere apologies for my incorrect statement about use of the Bamboo pen. It is a tool that I love using and being able to use it in LR will certainly allow for greater control of selective adjustments.

Thank you to all.

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Originally Posted by chauncey

One of those things that just popped into my head...point taken. ;)

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On the other hand, that brings to mind that other saying; "if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail". :)

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Originally Posted by chauncey

Okay guys, let's take this another step...has anyone tossed the keyboard/mouse for a tablet for everything? :confused:

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No. The mouse is a graphics tool - the keyboard is not - it's an alphanumeric tool.

One of the reasons I still use Lotus 1-2-3 for a spreadsheet is that all operations can be done without a mouse; this greatly speeds up the use of a spreadsheet (provided one is adept with the keys).

I use the mouse with LR adjustments - but I zoom in significantly when doing any brush work - this improves accuracy quite a bit. Not at my regular computer right now but if I recall correctly, the space bar toggles between normal and a zoomed in view. Very quick.

Glenn

I have a medium Wacom tablet and using the pen allows for much more precision in Photoshop especially when doing bit level manipulations. You just can't follow a jagged edge as well with a mouse. The Wacom also comes with a mouse that you use on the same surface. I find myself changing back and forth from pen to mouse on the tablet. The Wacom Tablet mouse is just a regular mouse with 2 buttons and a wheel but it only works on the tablet. I use Photoshop CC and Bridge only because I don't care for Lightroom.

OK Christina, Mark and Denny, you have intrigued me; what do tablets cost?

Glenn