Gimp + RawTherapee = intriguing possibilities (yes I need to refine the system)

[JBW]

we are into the typhoon season so I may have a tad too much time on my hands. Neither Gimp nor RawTherapee do everything but they have potential when used together?

[bnnrcn]

Lovely composition and colours. But why is it so dark Brian ?

[Shadowman]

Nicely done, agree about the darkness although I know underexposing tends to bring out the vibrancy in colors.

[ajohnw]

I'm glad you are having a go at using Rawtherapee Brian. It goes well with the GIMP especially if you use raw but it will do all of the same things to jpg's.

There is another GIMP trick that can be used on shots like this one. Duplicate the original image, desaturate - luminosity and select soft light. Hard light can also be used as can overlay. Often the desaturated image would be inverted to brighten just dark areas but if left as is it has the opposite effect and brightens lighter parts. I also ran a small eraser brush over the sticking out bits at 100% opacity to remove the effect.



Various opacity settings could also be used in the insect itself and the background if required. 50% opacity for instance would halve the effect.

The way it works is that mid grey does nothing to the image and lighter shades lighten what's underneath the layer and darker shades darken. Mid grey is something like 7f,80,80 in the colour pallet. There should be a colour patch with values like that. All 7f or maybe 80 or a mix like my GIMP. Rather than work on the desaturated layer it's better create a new layer and fill with this grey. Then paint various opacities of white on it to lighten areas. The original grey serves as an undo. Rather than paint shades of black on the same layer to darken it makes more sense to add yet another of these grey layers and do it on that.

So these 2 layers could be used to do the same thing as the desaturated layer did but the nice thing about that is that it matches the image exactly and the degree of change can be adjusted via it's opacity setting. You can also use contrast, brightness, levels or even thresholds on it. If the dark input end is moved up in levels for instance just past the hump at that end and the mid grey slider moved around the effect on the butterfly can be tuned up resulting in something like this.



John
-

[ajohnw]

I like Brian's idea of leaving the background dark. Maybe even darker to really push the point.

He could also use the eraser on the background to remove the effect there or even brighten that up using the same techniques but mixing the 2 and blending well can be difficult. A vignette approach would be easier.

John
-

[JBW]

Binnur and John, check out what Ajohnw did with the shot. If you remember the followijg shot you might be surprised to read that they both come from the same shot. I am just exploring the wild side for a while.

[JBW]

I'm glad you are having a go at using Rawtherapee Brian. It goes well with the GIMP especially if you use raw but it will do all of the same things to jpg's.

There is another GIMP trick that can be used on shots like this one. Duplicate the original image, desaturate - luminosity and select soft light. Hard light can also be used as can overlay. Often the desaturated image would be inverted to brighten just dark areas but if left as is it has the opposite effect and brightens lighter parts. I also ran a small eraser brush over the sticking out bits at 100% opacity to remove the effect.



Various opacity settings could also be used in the insect itself and the background if required. 50% opacity for instance would halve the effect.

The way it works is that mid grey does nothing to the image and lighter shades lighten what's underneath the layer and darker shades darken. Mid grey is something like 7f,80,80 in the colour pallet. There should be a colour patch with values like that. All 7f or maybe 80 or a mix like my GIMP. Rather than work on the desaturated layer it's better create a new layer and fill with this grey. Then paint various opacities of white on it to lighten areas. The original grey serves as an undo. Rather than paint shades of black on the same layer to darken it makes more sense to add yet another of these grey layers and do it on that.

So these 2 layers could be used to do the same thing as the desaturated layer did but the nice thing about that is that it matches the image exactly and the degree of change can be adjusted via it's opacity setting. You can also use contrast, brightness, levels or even thresholds on it. If the dark input end is moved up in levels for instance just past the hump at that end and the mid grey slider moved around the effect on the butterfly can be tuned up resulting in something like this.



John
-

I love it. As I said in the title I need to refine the skill set but what you did shows me at least one direction the refinement must take. RawT brought out a new version and it is quicker and after using Gimp not so confusing. But is there a way to save a copy in RT or do i save to a file on my desktop?

[JBW]

I'm glad you are having a go at using Rawtherapee Brian. It goes well with the GIMP especially if you use raw but it will do all of the same things to jpg's.

There is another GIMP trick that can be used on shots like this one. Duplicate the original image, desaturate - luminosity and select soft light. Hard light can also be used as can overlay. Often the desaturated image would be inverted to brighten just dark areas but if left as is it has the opposite effect and brightens lighter parts. I also ran a small eraser brush over the sticking out bits at 100% opacity to remove the effect.



Various opacity settings could also be used in the insect itself and the background if required. 50% opacity for instance would halve the effect.

The way it works is that mid grey does nothing to the image and lighter shades lighten what's underneath the layer and darker shades darken. Mid grey is something like 7f,80,80 in the colour pallet. There should be a colour patch with values like that. All 7f or maybe 80 or a mix like my GIMP. Rather than work on the desaturated layer it's better create a new layer and fill with this grey. Then paint various opacities of white on it to lighten areas. The original grey serves as an undo. Rather than paint shades of black on the same layer to darken it makes more sense to add yet another of these grey layers and do it on that.

So these 2 layers could be used to do the same thing as the desaturated layer did but the nice thing about that is that it matches the image exactly and the degree of change can be adjusted via it's opacity setting. You can also use contrast, brightness, levels or even thresholds on it. If the dark input end is moved up in levels for instance just past the hump at that end and the mid grey slider moved around the effect on the butterfly can be tuned up resulting in something like this.



John
-

I love it. As I said in the title I need to refine the skill set but what you did shows me at least one direction the refinement must take. RawT brought out a new version and it is quicker and after using Gimp not so confusing. But is there a way to save a copy in RT or do i save to a file on my desktop?

[ajohnw]

There is a little disk icon near bottom left for saving. If you hover over the icon's pop ups tell you what they do.

It saves to where ever you save it along with a file containing the processing steps that will be loaded when the original file is loaded again. If you save to the same file name an option add -1 -2 etc to the file name.

If you want to discard the processing steps on a file change custom top right to neutral. If you want to use the same steps on another file open the settings file from the same section.

It has a file browser if you just start it up rather than using right click open with.

John
-

[JBW]

There is a little disk icon near bottom left for saving. If you hover over the icon's pop ups tell you what they do.

It saves to where ever you save it along with a file containing the processing steps that will be loaded when the original file is loaded again. If you save to the same file name an option add -1 -2 etc to the file name.

If you want to discard the processing steps on a file change custom top right to neutral. If you want to use the same steps on another file open the settings file from the same section.

It has a file browser if you just start it up rather than using right click open with.

John
-

obviously my technique really does need refining but here is the latest effort.

[ajohnw]

Bring the antenna etc up would need some fine careful brush work Brian. The easiest way is to probably use the burning brush on the original but duplicated image at the bottom of the stack to lighten the black parts in particular with a fine brush at say 200% zoom. You will find the shadow, mid tone,highlight option on it useful. I'm suggesting there because you can see what you are doing easily but can't judge the effect until you switch the entire layer stack back on. Find out what shift click on one of the eyes on a layer does - but remember to select the one you want to work on as well as it doesn't do that automatically, just changes the state of all of the eyes.

There is a GIMP bug that crops up sometimes when using the eraser. It paints white on a layer when it should send it transparent. If you right click on the layer that does this you will see the option to add an alpha channel - add one, the remove it will be greyed out. Crazy thing is that if you look in channels it often shows that it does have an alpha layer when it hasn't. If it really has an alpha channel add one will be greyed out and remove it active. My GIMP did thsi for the 1st time yesterday.

GIMP doesn't automatically include an alpha channel when an image is loaded but should when it's duplicated which is the 1st thing to do to any image initially anyway just in case you mess it up some how.

John
-

[dabhand]

Brian,

FWIW I prefer your first interpretation and the only suggestion I would make would be to brighten the image a tad and make sure the odd bits and bobs in the background (not the major leaves) are 'blacked out'.

Does monsoon mean no bugs - I hope not ?

steve

[ajohnw]

It's curious peoples attitude about different approaches Steve. I know Brian likes to try to produce art. The way I see that taking his last attempt if done so that everything was there down to a barely visible level, the highlights where still noticeable plus a well presented butterfly and the shot was framed and stuck in a shop some one might buy it - but they wouldn't be a photographer because they tend to have a number of what in real terms can be rather dubious rules that prevent anyone from doing anything different.

John
-

[JBW]

Bring the antenna etc up would need some fine careful brush work Brian. The easiest way is to probably use the burning brush on the original but duplicated image at the bottom of the stack to lighten the black parts in particular with a fine brush at say 200% zoom. You will find the shadow, mid tone,highlight option on it useful. I'm suggesting there because you can see what you are doing easily but can't judge the effect until you switch the entire layer stack back on. Find out what shift click on one of the eyes on a layer does - but remember to select the one you want to work on as well as it doesn't do that automatically, just changes the state of all of the eyes.

There is a GIMP bug that crops up sometimes when using the eraser. It paints white on a layer when it should send it transparent. If you right click on the layer that does this you will see the option to add an alpha channel - add one, the remove it will be greyed out. Crazy thing is that if you look in channels it often shows that it does have an alpha layer when it hasn't. If it really has an alpha channel add one will be greyed out and remove it active. My GIMP did thsi for the 1st time yesterday.

GIMP doesn't automatically include an alpha channel when an image is loaded but should when it's duplicated which is the 1st thing to do to any image initially anyway just in case you mess it up some how.

John
-

I can and will try everything except the fine careful brushstrokes. Fact is that my fine motor skills are non existent. My best technique qith a paint brush is to boot up the mag and try to stay within the lines

[JBW]

Brian,

FWIW I prefer your first interpretation and the only suggestion I would make would be to brighten the image a tad and make sure the odd bits and bobs in the background (not the major leaves) are 'blacked out'.

Does monsoon mean no bugs - I hope not ?

steve

Monsoon season doesn't mean no bugs, just different bugs. FWIW I need everyone's opinion. Ajohnw is right that I am trying more for artistry than something that would grace a tome. But the only time my understanding, taste, opinion has proven to be 100% spot on was when I married my wife of 21 years. (actually we married each other twice).

I have found that when I find techniques to push the limits (in any part of my life) even if it produces strangeness that the same techniques can often be used in more subtle ways as well. As I said at the beginning I need to refine this push.

So please do continue to offer your critiqes they are valuable to me.

[gpzt]

Hello !
I must confess I have neglected photography for several months now. This doesn't mean I haven't had my share of problems!
As far as RAW is concerned (I always shoot in RAW), I used to associate DPP with The GIMP and everything went fine. I have been using RawTherapee and Gimp for a few months and I am unable to associate RT with Gimp as editor. I have tried every possible combination in the three buttons in RT préférences dealing with this matter to no avail. Looks like I am not using the proper path to establish the link. RT version:4.2.1, Gimp 2.8.14;OS: Windows 8.1 pro 64 bits; using "Program Files" (notx86!).
I have read the manual(both in English and in french!) and and a french book on RT without finding the appropriate path. Needless to say, I have uninstalled then re-installed RT and gimp several times ...Has anybody the same problem or has any of you a way to solve this problem which is driving me crazy. Being no geek in computing science, I would appreciate a full information on this delicate problem (french or English welcome!).
Best regards,
Guy Poizat
Cabestany, France.

[Brownbear]

Hi Brian,

Just to say beautiful capture of the butterfly, and gorgeous colours. This time around I must say that I like the dark background because it sets off the colours so nicely.

[JBW]

Hello !
I must confess I have neglected photography for several months now. This doesn't mean I haven't had my share of problems!
As far as RAW is concerned (I always shoot in RAW), I used to associate DPP with The GIMP and everything went fine. I have been using RawTherapee and Gimp for a few months and I am unable to associate RT with Gimp as editor. I have tried every possible combination in the three buttons in RT préférences dealing with this matter to no avail. Looks like I am not using the proper path to establish the link. RT version:4.2.1, Gimp 2.8.14;OS: Windows 8.1 pro 64 bits; using "Program Files" (notx86!).
I have read the manual(both in English and in french!) and and a french book on RT without finding the appropriate path. Needless to say, I have uninstalled then re-installed RT and gimp several times ...Has anybody the same problem or has any of you a way to solve this problem which is driving me crazy. Being no geek in computing science, I would appreciate a full information on this delicate problem (french or English welcome!).
Best regards,
Guy Poizat
Cabestany, France.

Guy, I am even less of a geek than you are. I simply save in TIFF no compression, and transfer between the two programs.
B.

[gpzt]

Guy, I am even less of a geek than you are. I simply save in TIFF no compression, and transfer between the two programs.
B.

Brian,
Thank you for your quick answer. For the time being, I use RT , convert into Tiff( no compression of course) and record in Faststone before fiddling with Gimp if necessary. It just drives me crazy to be unable to skip the intermediate step Faststone.
Regards,Guy

[flashback]

Guy and Brian,
I (hopefully) answered this question in Guy's post in Image Post-Processing & Printing.