Silver Efex Pro 2 Workflow

[Mike Buckley]

Dave,

The only learning tool I have taken advantage of is Jason Odell's eBook, The Photographer's Guide to Silver Efex Pro 2. Your question reminded me that I forgot to recommend his eBook in the first post of the thread and that is now corrected.

Odell mentions the following about preparing the color image for optimum conversion to monochrome: "The goal of preprocessing is to create a low-contrast but fairly saturated color image." He doesn't explain why it should be low-contrast and I can't think of why that would be helpful. I don't reduce contrast when preparing my images. I had actually forgotten that he recommends a low-contrast rendition until I looked in his eBook hoping to find something that directly responds to your question.

He recommends slightly boosting the saturation because "enhanced colors will respond better to color filter effects, and they will also make using Control Points easier." It's that use of Control Points that I also mentioned in the second paragraph of Step #5 in my workflow. Even so, I don't boost the saturation globally in my preprocessing as he recommends.

He adds that "if you plan to make any selective color effects in your image, it is easier to work with slightly more intense colors because you'll gain more control over color intensity with the selective color sliders in SEP2. If your colors are dull to begin with, then that's the maximum effect you can get when applying selective color." That certainly makes sense to me.

[Donald]

Odell mentions the following about preparing the color image for optimum conversion to monochrome: "The goal of preprocessing is to create a low-contrast but fairly saturated color image."

I'm very much with Mike on this.

As some people on here know, I like low contrast B & W images. If I want to lower the contrast of a picture in post-processing, I would never do that before commencing the B & W conversion. I do that with the tools in SEP. I'd be interested if anyone could help us understand Odell's thinking on this. I don't why he says the above.

As to Mike's point about saturation - In the old days (pre SEP) we (I) used to all sorts of things to colour to get it into what I thought was the right state for conversion to B & W. Nowadays, with the tools available in SEP, I apply a much, much lighter touch to that. And indeed, if I do anything at it will almost always be to vibrancy rather than saturation. I find that gives me what I want in terms of the colour data that I then want to convert to B & W.

[Manfred M]

On the other hand, when I look at the filters panel on Photoshop CC 2014, under the Nik heading; it still says "Silver Efex Pro 2".

I guess we have some schizophrenic software that is having an identify crisis.

[Mike Buckley]

Now that I've reread the part of Odell's eBook that explains how to adjust contrast using SEP2, I'll take a couple educated guesses, though still only guesses, about why he recommends that the contrast in the color rendition should be relatively low.

Backing up just a bit, his book explicitly states in two places that the tone curve of the color image should be linear. That's the shape that produces the least contrast. (If there are any curves in the Curve tool, contrast is increased in some tonal areas of the image.) That's his starting point with regard to contrast. Then after opening the file in SEP2, he uses its tools to adjust the contrast.

So, my first educated guess is that he wants to exercise total control of the contrast after the image has been converted to monochrome. Doing so prevents him from having to undue any contrast that might have been added to the color version.

My second educated guess has to do with the fact that he doesn't know what software each reader is using to preprocess the color image. Some of the software that serves as a host to the SEP2 plug-in is really old (examples: CS3, Lightroom 2.6 and Elements 6). Some of his readers might be using even less capable software before handing off the color image to the stand-alone version of SEP2. Perhaps he believes that SEP2's controls for adjusting contrast are equal or superior to most of the software his readers could be using to prepare the color version. If so, he could understandably believe they are better off using SEP2 to control contrast. Indeed, he makes a point of explaining the improved contrast sliders in SEP2 that are not in SEP1.

Remember that those are nothing more than educated guesses.

[Donald]

Remember that those are nothing more than educated guesses.

Seems to be very reasonable suggestions. However, I don't think I'm convinced if either of these is indeed the explanation.

Will look into this some more when time allows, because he clearly has developed this view based on experience and he is not writing flippantly. So it is a workflow that deserves to be examined before it is dismissed ... or not, as the case may be.

[Cliff Roamer]

Quick update:

I received a reply from Google regarding the upgrading of my copy of SEP1 to SEP2.

Thank you for contacting Nik by Google, I hope you’re having a great day! You may be eligible for a free upgrade to the latest version of our Nik Collection by Google! In order for me to verify this, I’m going to need you to provide me with a Product Key for any previous Nik Software products that you may own. I was unable to find any registered software using the email address provided, did you possibly use an alternate email address to register your software? Once I receive your Product Key, I’ll be more than happy to send you links for your free upgrade!

Sent them the key and received a d/load link, I now have SEP2
Thanks to those of you that suggested I try for an upgrade, it was worth the effort.

[Donald]

Well done, Mike. Start having fun with it.

[Mike Buckley]

I tried to contact Jason for clarification about why he recommends preparing the color image with low contrast. I was hoping he might even join us in the thread but I had no luck determining an easy way to contact him.

[Mike Buckley]

Today I skimmed all of the first book noted below and read every detail of the parts of both books devoted to using Silver Efex Pro 2. Neither author mentioned anything about preparing the color file with low contrast, at least not that I could find. I also don't remember such a recommendation from my earlier readings of them.

From Oz to Kansas by Vincent Versace
The Complete Guide to Black and White Digital Photography by Michael Freeman

[Mike Buckley]

Some reading I did today has convinced me more than ever that many different workflows can be effective and that the effectiveness for each of us mostly has to do with how each of our brains works. Though I prefer to make adjustments using the Global Adjustments panel before using the Selective Adjustments panel, Allan prefers doing it the other way around. Though I prefer tweaking the color filter before doing anything else, Nik recommends doing that as the third basic step of the workflow. Indeed, the panels are laid out from top to bottom in the order the developer recommends using them.

Vincent Versace's book mentioned in my previous post has the subtitle, Almost every black-and-white conversion technique known to man. He also recommends using the workflow suggested by the order of the panels. His idea deserves perhaps at least strong consideration because he was involved in some fashion with Silver Efex Pro before any code was written. He was also an alpha tester and the product's first beta tester. His photos post-processed using the software are used to market it.

Even so, I still can't wrap my mind around Nik's decision to place the Levels & Curve tool in the Film Types panel. That's partly because nothing about the Levels & Curve tool is solely specific to a film type being emulated. More pertinent to this discussion, the position of that panel implies that adjusting the levels and curve is one of the last things to do. That's despite that the effects when using that tool are the same effects when using the Global Adjustments panel, which is the top panel and the first one to be used according to Nik.

In the end, the decision each of us makes about workflow probably comes down to the following statement by Michael Freeman in his book mentioned in my previous post: "There is plenty of conflicting advice on the workflow sequence, but in reality, there are no truly compelling reasons for doing any particular workflow procedure first, or last, or whatever."

[Cliff Roamer]

Some reading I did today has convinced me more than ever that many different workflows can be effective and that the effectiveness for each of us mostly has to do with how each of our brains works.

"There is plenty of conflicting advice on the workflow sequence, but in reality, there are no truly compelling reasons for doing any particular workflow procedure first, or last, or whatever."

I think you summed it up in those two sentences Mike, If an award winning photographer revealed their secrets and said they maxed out the colours, turned down the contrast, added noise and applied a blue cooling filter before using SEP2 then many people would try it (well I would) and some would declare it's the best way to make B&W images and why didn't anyone think of it before!

Different strokes and all that, Donald said that he prefers low contrast B & W images, where as I mainly like strong, sometimes harsh contrast but maybe that's just down to what I shoot, I don't have hard and fast rules to B&W so no surprise I don't have a particular workflow, but that's part of the fun for me

[Donald]

Thank you for opening up this discussion Mike. It's the sort of exchange that I think can be useful to so many more people than actually contribute to the thread.

Even so, I still can't wrap my mind around Nik's decision to place the Levels & Curve tool in the Film Types panel. That's partly because nothing about the Levels & Curve tool is solely specific to a film type being emulated.

I agree totally. It's not a tool I actually use, but it has always intrigued me as to why it is where it is.

I think the key is, as Mike suggest in quoting Freeman, that you find the workflow that works for you. If you're creating the images that you want, then you're doing it right. It might be different from the way I do it, but that's not important. So long as it works for you.