Help, weird dots on my sensor?

[Kathe L]

Hello all,
I am brand new here, I hope this is the place to discuss gear, technique, also creative and alternative stuff..
My name is Kathe, I live in Denmark and have a Canon Eos450D that I have played with for a few years. Pure hobby. I like to take pictures of flowers for artist reference photos, and a few weeks ago all of a sudden a load of small weird dots occurred on all my photos, regardless of what lens I use. I know I changed lenses outsite, and thought it might be pollen - it reminds me of vanilla icecream!
I have regular dust on the sensor too (in red circles), it seems to me they are not on the same surface as the tiny dots, they are more blurred.
But what are those dots, and how do I get rid of them???
I tried cleaning the sensor, it removed some old regular dust specks and planted a couple of new ones, but had no effect whatsoever on the tiny ones.
HELP, please???

[Stagecoach]

Hi Kathe and a warm welcome to CiC.

How did you undertake cleaning of the sensor, was it with a blower brush with the camera held with the front facing down?

If it is pollen I would suspect that is rather sticky, but, looking at the image I can see a regularity in the pattern of the dots, rather strange.

Grahame

[davidedric]

Hi Kathe,

I can't help with how to clear the spots, but the 450d does have an automatic dust spot "subtractor". I don't know the details of how it works but I am sure it will be in your manual. Essentially the camera takes a second exposure and the Canon supplied DPP software works out where the spots are and subtracts them from your main image. Not the proper answer, but it may keep you going.

Dave

[Kathe L]

Yes, I first used a blower brush as you described - then an antistatic brush. Finally a wet wipe (a wet wipe tissue bought in the camerastore). Not kosher, I know, but I am getting a bit desperate.
B.T.W. I am a goldsmith and not frightened of working with sensitive things in cramped spaces ;-)
Kathe

[Kathe L]

Dave, you saved my day! I followed the procedure, and all spots are now gone! A bit embarrassing that I had the solution in my manual - in my defense I will say that photo-lingo for me has been the steepest learning curve, and when not knowing what things are called, searching for info is very difficult.
Thanks!
Kathe

[george013]

Dave, you saved my day! I followed the procedure, and all spots are now gone! A bit embarrassing that I had the solution in my manual - in my defense I will say that photo-lingo for me has been the steepest learning curve, and when not knowing what things are called, searching for info is very difficult.
Thanks!
Kathe

Be aware that you have still all the dust on your sensor.
George

[ajohnw]

After much thought when I had a generally dirty sensor problem I took it to one of the repair centres the manufacturers mentioned as there main repairers and paid them to do it. I did this because the camera was several years old and all sorts of things other than dust eventually deposit on everything and can even help keep dust in place. When it comes to using solvent type cleaners that will be needed to remove things like this I feel it's worth taking to the pro's to get it done.

It's also probably worth paying for a full service from time to time - for pro's especially.

I regularly clean microscope optics so know just how difficult it is to really clean things. Once really clean dust falls off.

John
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[Mike Buckley]

A bit embarrassing that I had the solution in my manual - in my defense I will say that photo-lingo for me has been the steepest learning curve, and when not knowing what things are called, searching for info is very difficult.

Just the opposite of being embarrassing, that's completely understandable for the exact reason that you explained. Fortunately, now that you have come upon CiC, you only have to explain the nature of your issues, perhaps display a photo to demonstrate them, and ask how to deal with them. You'll always get friendly help when posting here.

[Kathe L]

The dust still there I will have to clean as best I can. For the price of a service here I can get another camera house, which I would rather have, could do with a little upgrading! Is there a buy/sell equipment place in this forum?
Kathe

[george013]

The dust still there I will have to clean as best I can. For the price of a service here I can get another camera house, which I would rather have, could do with a little upgrading! Is there a buy/sell equipment place in this forum?
Kathe

I don't know how you cleaned the sensor. The structure of the pixels is strange. Relative view and big on the left site and more and smaller on the right site. Did you use something that was meant for cleaning a lens?
I think cleaning a sensor is about between 25 to maximum 50 euro. Sometimes it's done free when there is a action.
George

[ajohnw]

As George points out just a sensor clean is a lot less than a service. The worrying part for me is that they took a mobile number in case they needed to tell me that the shutter was near end of life. That turned out not to be too bad if it happens as the best thing to do is to pay for a service and the new shutter. The full service includes the cost of dismantling the camera so may as well have the lot cleaned at the same time.

My FF clean cost me £70 if I remember correctly. Canon appointed service agents I could have had it done by a camera shop for about £40 but ..................

John
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[Kathe L]

In Denmark a sensor clean is about 150 Euro, and no way they are doing anything for free! Camera shops are scarce and far between, can't compete with internet sales.
I used a lense cleaner, but will get some proper swipes.
But now we are on the subject, all my three lenses have dust on the inside. Is that repairable?
Kathe

[george013]

In Denmark a sensor clean is about 150 Euro, and no way they are doing anything for free! Camera shops are scarce and far between, can't compete with internet sales.
I used a lense cleaner, but will get some proper swipes.
But now we are on the subject, all my three lenses have dust on the inside. Is that repairable?
Kathe

I hope for you that you didn't damage the sensor/filter. It's a very sensitive part of the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSi27u4azQ

Dust in the lens, I don't think you will see it. But let somebody else give the right answer.

George

[Polar01]

George the sensor is not as sensitive as they lead you to believe, yes you have to be careful, but there are some layers overtop of the sensor, such as IR filter layer, AA layer, and low-pass filter layer that you have to get through to get to the sensor. Care-full you do not use a sharp object bad, oils on fingers bad, cleaning solutions that attach plastics bad. Using the proper tools and a light touch will not hurt the sensor.

Cheers: Allan

[george013]

I know you don't get to the sensor itself. That's why I write sensor/filter. It's the language. We are speaking of sensorcleaning, not layer or filtercleaning.
I hope that she gets a good result with the swipes.
George

[Polar01]

George I am also talking of the whole sensor as a unit, that includes the sensor layers and the film layers over top of the actual sensor that make up the senor unit. When you remove the lens, hit mirror up for cleaning, what you see is the sensor, when we "clean the sensor", we are really only cleaning the upper most filter film that is applied to the unit. Now it is different if you were say cleaning the sensor of a D800E as it has no I believe AA filter, however is still has the IR filter and low-pass filter on top of the sensors. Now the new D810 and possibility the D610 someone will correct me if I am wrong and I well maybe wrong, but I believe that they both are missing the AA and low-pass filters, however they make still have the IR blocking filter applied to the sensor unit.

Cheers: Allan

[DanK]

150 Euros for cleaning a sensor is robbery.

My only concern about this is the small specks. Cleaning dust is not that hard, but this doesn't look like dust. I would want to be VERY careful not to scratch the sensor if these are anything granular. (Yes, I know it is actually a filter over the sensor, but it doesn't matter: I wouldn't want to scratch the surface.) Personally, if I were doing this myself--I always clean my own--I would start with air (from a blower, not canned) with the lens opening pointed down, and then move to a static brush, such as the one sold by Copper Hill before doing more.I always do this. If the granular specs are still there, I would be tempted not to use swabs, which is my normal last step, for fear of scratching the surface. I might be tempted to use a method that does not entail any rubbing, such as http://sensor-film.com/ (which I haven't used myself) or a Lenspen senorklear.

[loosecanon]

Sensor Cleaning is not difficult with a bit of common sense and the right kit.

Firstly using lens cleaner is not good, it is not pure enough, any liquid must completely evaporate leaving nothing behind.
Buy swabs made for sensor cleaning of the right size for your sensor. Also some sensor cleaning fluid if it doesn't come with the swabs. (Usually one gets a kit of both.

First go through the blower brush to remove as much as possible. Don't use a brush on the sensor, even the special ones made for the job. In the days before in camera cleaning the Arctic Butterfly etc. brushes may have had a purpose, now all they will do is spread oily contamination across the sensor and be on the brush next time you clean.

Looking at your image I suspect you have some oil on the sensor from the shutter mechanism - it happens especially in warm weather. To remove this you will need a damp sensor swab.

The technique is to open the shutter in clean mode (making sure the battery is well charged), Take a new swab out of its protective packaging, slightly dampen with the cleaning fluid. It must not be wet, if it is wet it will wet the sensor rather than remove oil and grease etc, in the worst case this can damage the sensor.

Take the damp swab and stroke it gently across the sensor surface (ok for the pedantic, the elements in front of the sensor). Do this a second time, moving in the same direction, trying not to touch the part surrounding the sensor.
When you do this the sensor should not look as if it has been wetted.

Check the sensor by taking a photograph, and if necessary repeat with a new swab.

It is that simple, just remember damp not wet.

[Glenn NK]

Kathe:

Sensors are like faces - they will require cleaning from time to time.

Sensor cleaning is not rocket science.

Cleaning a sensor is a bit frightening the first time, but one soon gets over it (like many things in life).

The surface of a sensor is glass - glass is relatively hard and thus not the easiest material to scratch and with a gentle touch is quite safe.

Loosecanon (aka Yes) has outlined a very good method. It's the one I use with one small exception - I don't use a blower, I use a can of Dust-Off. This is compressed refrigerant (the refrigerant IS the propellant so don't believe the urban legends abounding the internet about possible contaminants). If you're not comfortable with compressed gas, buy a good quality blower brush.

I use Sensor Clean which I buy at my local camera shop for CAD $43.00. This is a 15 ml bottle and although it seems expensive, I've been using it for six years on two camera bodies. I've probably cleaned both sensors about ten times and there is still some left.

I use Visible Dust sensor swabs (again note Loosecanon's method). In the long run, the swabs are what cost the most as they are not reusable.

The only thing I would add to L/C's comments is that my test shots are taken at f/16 - I rarely if ever use an f/stop smaller than f/16 - if you shoot regularly at f/22 or so, then test at f/22 or so.

To do a test shot, stop the aperture down to f/16 or f/22, rack the lens out of focus and shoot up at the sky. It doesn't matter what shutter speed is because the spots are on the sensor surface and moving the camera during the exposure won't affect the clarity/sharpness of the spots.

So essentially the process is:

1) take a test shot and zoom in 100 percent on the computer screen.

2) if you see spots, do a cleaning,

3) take another test shot and view at 100 percent,

4) repeat as necessary.

That wasn't difficult was it?

Glenn

[ajohnw]

In Denmark a sensor clean is about 150 Euro, and no way they are doing anything for free! Camera shops are scarce and far between, can't compete with internet sales.
I used a lense cleaner, but will get some proper swipes.
But now we are on the subject, all my three lenses have dust on the inside. Is that repairable?
Kathe

Dust in lenses is a dismantle job really. Telescoping zooms are usually more prone to it. Some lenses wont dismantle and have been pressed together. It's not usually a problem as the area of the glass makes the image and a speck of dust just means that bit of glass below it can't do it's part. Things are a little worse on the last lenses towards the sensor but significant faults have little if no effect. I have a lens with a 1.5mm+ white spot on the last lens. While that means no one will buy it there are no ill effects at all.

If you use a dusting can make sure you keep it vertical and try it first to make sure no liquid gas squirts out. The gas also gets very cold so us it in bursts. I prefer a squeeze the bulb type blower. It's one that watch repairers use and it puts out a fearsome jet of air. It also has a filter in it for when it refills. I always blow across things as much as I can because the aim is to dislodge dirt.

Some of the comments are interesting. There are many sources of oily substance about that build up on glass - cars being one of them even the kitchen and many mild industrial air pollutants. To keep optical glass parts clean it's generally reckoned that they need cleaning every 12 months to prevent it building up to a point where removal is difficult. That's from service people who of course want more work. As coatings are being cleaned thoughts about well it's glass are incorrect and cleaning will eventually spoil coatings. I'd say every 2 years is a sensible solution but some optical systems do need it doing every 12 months and even then there are noticeable improvements but as far as camera gear is concerned I would say this would be well over the top.

Rubbish? I recently bought a Sigma achromatic close up lens that must be several years old as they haven't made use of them for some time. I have all sorts of optical cleaning solutions about and even flooding it would not get rid of the greasy substances on it. No finger prints or anything like that. It looked pristine. Just accumulation over the years. Dust just stayed on it. In the end I used a micro fibre cloth on it. Drastic but now at least it is clean and I wont have to do that again.

Lots of lens cleaning fluids and wipes do leave a residue. It can be a problem finding one that doesn't. I'd suspect it wouldn't be a bad idea to use sensor cleaning solution on lenses as well.

John
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