Tutorials: To pay or not to pay

[rpcrowe]

Some camera companies (we have already mentioned Adorama and B&H but, there are others) conduct free or low cost seminars.

Calumet Camera used to hold regular seminars free or low at cost in all phases of photography and post production. Luckily, I lived near a Calumet store...

Unfortunately, Calumet suddenly went belly up leaving a void. George's camera of San Diego opened a new store which has a room set aside for seminars and seems to be holding these seminars regularly. The actual grand opening is planned for this weekend but, they have been in business at the new location for a while now. I have attended a series of presentations by Canon and plan to attend two more presentations today...

Perhaps camera stores in other areas also hold seminars. That might be a good area to research...

At a slightly higher price, well known photographers, such as Scott Kelby, frequently hold seminars in larger U.S. Cities. I research these presentations because I don't mind attending a free lecture on areas in which I don't need training (I might just pick up a bit of information) but, hate to pay significant amounts of money for something that will not benefit me...

[NorthernFocus]

We all have different learning styles and have to do what works for us as individuals. I have paid for stuff in the past but I find that there is enough free content available to learn most things needed for photography. I did pay for a Kelby series in order to learn LR as quickly as possible. I also find Kelby's voice and style to be the perfect remedy for insomnia

[rpcrowe]

I learned one thing in the two hours of Tamron Tailgate Seminars on Friday 11/14 and I got a lot of information that I don't agree with. It was worth the trip because I met a friend that I have not seen for a while and we had a free lunch of hot dogs, chips and Coke, provided by either Tamron or George's camera. I also got a decent discount on a new photo vest which I have been needing badly since my old vest is getting ragged and frayed around the edges. That's O.K. for some types of shooting, such as wildlife, but, if a person is shooting events, it behooves the photographer to look decent...

What did I learn? An easy way to adjust camera bag Velcro dividers using a pair of postcard size pieces of cardboard. I will shoot how to do this and post it on CiC...

The camera bag tip was fine but, the rest of the presentation was simply a commercial for Tamron products...

[BJ Denning]

I'll second the CnC tutorials, they are what originally brought me to this forum. However, I found them through various Google searches. So, I would also need to recommend Google/Youtube.

I also agree that it is a matter of personal style. You need to know how you learn. Do you want/need to have access to the original images and follow along or are you content with just listening and trying on your own image? I happen to be the latter, so I created a Playlist in youtube where I add videos that I find interesting so that I can reference them later.

As far as free with the option to buy (for more details), Phlearn is great. "How to Correct Red Skin Color in Photoshop Quickly".
For some more advanced portrait techniques, I would check out Michael Woloszynowicz.

[rpcrowe]

Here's an example of a freebie PerfectPhoto Suite 9 free YouTube tutorial...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DzuQ_eRosg

There is a plethora of PerfectPhoto videos available...

[dabhand]

Never pay for online things...
I don't think there is anything famous online and not available on torrent.
kat.ph is the website where you get almost everything.

Not aimed at mrinmoyvk in particular, just the general internet attitude.

It does strike me that any photographer who 'watermarks' their images or gets upset in anyway if someone lifts a copy of one of their images should be considered very hypercritical if they expect not to pay for someone elses work - sure some tutorials, paid for or free, are less valuable than some others, but that is equally true of the value of some images.

To me it's simply a question of conscience.

steve

[Andrew1]

The internet is packed full of more instruction than you will get to in your lifetime. Burn yourself out there before you start paying for access to sites. They may be great sources but you're really only paying for the ease of finding it in one site.

Part of my initial confusion with the editing offerings out there was caused because there are multiple ways to do the same thing or get the same look all within a single software package such as Lightroom . One website shows you how to do it one way and another site another route. Both very legit and get the right results. Use the free resources until they no longer offer you what you are looking for. The manufacturers of your hardware or software also have user/instruction manuals. At the same time get yourself a highlighter and a comprehensive book on the subject whether it be camera operation or photo editing or whatever, and follow along. They are invaluable for refreshers as well. I have quite a few books myself but they are particular to me at the time I needed them. Your library, paper or web bookmarks, would be completely different. I do have a few favourites that I continue to go back to but that's another thread. There are many sources and as mentioned by Bryan, the style and the format of the books differ. No matter what you are doing you can't keep it all in your head so keep the manuals handy in the camera bag or on the desk.

As with any skill you want to develop it's practice, practice, practice. I'm no whiz by any means but I probably learned more through experimenting and playing with settings than I did from a book or a website.

PS There are some amazing free sites that most here can list. (beginning with CnC of course) If you are interested, start another thread asking for references.

[davidedric]

Andrew, you are right of course about the plethora of free resources available, but for me there are two potential down sides.

One of them you mention above, the number of different ways there are to achieve a given result. The other is that while many of the free videos are good, some are terrible, and when learning it can be very hard to know the difference.

That's why I prefer to start with a well structured and consistent course. Ymmv.

Dave

[Dr Bob]

I was lucky enough to have Lynda.com available to me for about 2 months thru my work. I took the opportunity to view many of the photography tutorials and workshops. I found it excellent and far superior to most free tutorials. The courses were thorough, well done, high quality and very informative. When I am ready to explore new photographic topics, I will use Lynda.com again.

Dr Bob

[CBImages]

My opinion is that if you pay for tuition via a web site you will receive a lot of information, a lot you may know already some that will be way over your head and there might just be a small amount that will be useful to you.
As a professional photographer who earns money from teaching others I would suggest that by far the best way to learn is to contact a local 'teaching' professional photographer and book a days 1to1 tuition with him. This way you can learn at your own pace, cover subjects that you want to learn about and receive constructive feedback.
I always start a day with my clients reviewing their images and learning how they approach their photography and what they want from their day together. This gives me an insight into their standard of photography, style and how best to structure the day. Some people respond well to the technical side of photography while others it's all about giving them confidence to unleash their creative eye but most often a combination of the two.
However the greatest benefit is that you can ask questions during the day and receive immediate answers to any problems you may be having.

[davidedric]

Maybe I should pay you a visit, Chris.

I have found tutorials pretty good for learning post processing and theory, but I have never learned very much about actually taking photographs (doesn't mean I know a lot, just that for me it's not a good way to learn)

On the other hand, I'd be rather wary of picking a tutor out at random without knowing hoe he or she worked.

Dave

[CBImages]

Maybe I should pay you a visit, Chris.

I have found tutorials pretty good for learning post processing and theory, but I have never learned very much about actually taking photographs (doesn't mean I know a lot, just that for me it's not a good way to learn)

On the other hand, I'd be rather wary of picking a tutor out at random without knowing hoe he or she worked.

Dave

Quite right Dave, you need to establish if the professional photographer can take photos themselves, seems a strange thing to say but there are lots of people who buy themselves are decent camera and call themselves a pro. Also see if their style of photography suites you.
Finally and most importantly how good are they at teaching, can they convey ideas and principles in a way that you, the client can easily grasp.

I wasn't touting for business, just expressing my opinion based on my conversations with many clients who struggled with the same decision - on-line tuition or a 1to1 workshop.

If you are interested you can check out my work at http://chrisbeard-images.com

Regards

Chris

[rpcrowe]

Chris...

Please don't think that I am aiming this comment at you. In fact, I have not viewed any of your images...

My comment is that prior to initiating any one-on-one training, I would suggest that a person view the instructor's work and decide if you like their style and also decide if the level of competence of the instructor is at a level which you would be willing to pay to emulate.

The first thing that I do (if possible) is to decide whether or not I like the instructor's body of work.

NOTE: I have found that there are some persons who are exceptionally adept at post processing who are not really very good photographers to start off with. I have gained some valuable insight from Photoshop Gurus who are not really good photographers...

[chauncey]

I could care less if he were a great photographer...all that impresses me is what he coughs out.

[CBImages]

Chris...

Please don't think that I am aiming this comment at you. In fact, I have not viewed any of your images...


My comment is that prior to initiating any one-on-one training, I would suggest that a person view the instructor's work and decide if you like their style and also decide if the level of competence of the instructor is at a level which you would be willing to pay to emulate.

The first thing that I do (if possible) is to decide whether or not I like the instructor's body of work.

NOTE: I have found that there are some persons who are exceptionally adept at post processing who are not really very good photographers to start off with. I have gained some valuable insight from Photoshop Gurus who are not really good photographers...

Hi Richard

No I didn't think you were aiming your comments at me, in fact they were the very points I was making in my previous post - so we are both singing from the same hymn sheet. :-)

I believe one of the key aspects for 'educators' to understand is 'why' your client wants to improve their photography - is it for personal satisfaction, is it to try and emulate some of the top photographers images, to win club competitions or do they just need the inspiration that comes from learning new techniques or is it some other reason?

However the point under discussion at the start of the thread was about paying for Internet based tuition and while there are lots of very talented photographers offering on-line education I don't believe this is the best way or even the most cost effective way to learn for the majority of people.

[Manfred M]

My opinion is that if you pay for tuition via a web site you will receive a lot of information, a lot you may know already some that will be way over your head and there might just be a small amount that will be useful to you.
As a professional photographer who earns money from teaching others I would suggest that by far the best way to learn is to contact a local 'teaching' professional photographer and book a days 1to1 tuition with him. This way you can learn at your own pace, cover subjects that you want to learn about and receive constructive feedback.
I always start a day with my clients reviewing their images and learning how they approach their photography and what they want from their day together. This gives me an insight into their standard of photography, style and how best to structure the day. Some people respond well to the technical side of photography while others it's all about giving them confidence to unleash their creative eye but most often a combination of the two.
However the greatest benefit is that you can ask questions during the day and receive immediate answers to any problems you may be having.

Chris - reading what you have written make alarm bells go off for me. While I agree that it is one way to learn, it is not necessarily the best way for everyone (perhaps even for most people). I'm not quite sure what a "teaching professional photographer" is. I assume that it is merely someone who has decided to offer one-on-one courses and gets paid for it. It doesn't mean that they are either a good photographer or a good teacher.

While a good website might be some indication of the photographer's skill, there is no way of knowing whether he or she can in fact teach. I know a number of commercial photographers, some of who could probably teach someone quite well, while others really wouldn't have a clue as to how to impart their knowledge to others. I know some amateurs that will blow a lot of commercial photographers out of the water with their knowledge and teaching skills.

All that being said; there are advantages and disadvantages to any method of learning. What is missing from online videos or reading books is feedback. Formal courses, whether they be one-on-one or as a group (formal classroom or workshop approach) can proviide that very important link, but only for the length of the session.

Novice photographers do not become good ones with a one day course. They need to go out there and practice and get feedback on their work; Cartier-Bresson's quote on your first 10,000 images being your worst has a lot of truth to it. Camera clubs can be one way to do this (depending on how they are run) or sites like this one (this is the main reason I joined CiC) can also give feedback to help a photographer develop.

So while I think I understand where you are coming from, I don't agree with your conclusion. I feel that all of the other learning methods have value too and can either supplement or replace the one-on-one approach, likely for a lot less money.

[CBImages]

Interesting post Manfred and I'm not going to argue with you as everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours.

The opinion I offered is not solely 'mine' it is also that of many clients of mine who have booked me for 1to1's or come on one of my photographic workshops. Any instructor can only impart information/technique but it is up to the individual to put the skills they have learnt into practice whether it's on a 1to1 basis or via an online tuition package.

There are a few points you make that I don't totally agree with but as I said I can respect your opinion without necessarily agreeing with it.
There are also points you make that I wholeheartedly agree with, some of which I also mention in my previous posts.

I hope those alarm bells don't keep you awake at night. ;-)
Seriously though - most clients will happily recommend the services of a pro photographer (one who earns his income from photography - selling images, commissions, tuition etc) to friends if they have been happy with the tuition they have received.

[William W]

Wondering if anyone has experience with Web sites that offer paid tutorials for photography/digital processing. Pricing can be extremely diverse depending on the site.

(Serious) web based instruction/learning and or correspondence learning is not for everyone. The Student needs to be quite disciplined and there are many other factors to consider.

I would not pay for web tuition.

I will place my money into one to one or a small classes of instruction from a good teacher and I want to know the topics that will be covered and also have a précis of the expected outcomes.

Scanning the web at leisure and researching topics is a different kettle of kippers – the web is good for that.

***

Based on my teaching experience and also my experience as working as a Professional Photographer SOME general comments that I wish to add are:

1. Face to Face Instruction is quite different to solo learning from a web page, even if the web page offers written responses from a ‘tutor’ (the topic asked about by the OP was about web based ‘tutorial’)

2. There is a lot of misinformation on the WWW.

3. Much of the information on the WWW is not: annotated; referenced; nor footnoted.

4. The ‘best’ Photographers do not necessarily make the best Teachers.

But also, brilliant and gifted Photographers may also be brilliant and gifted Teachers.

I think, a brilliant and gifted TEACHER must have some: credentials; worth and experience in their SUBJECT MATTER, but do not necessarily need to be brilliant at that Subject - NOR – do they need to be fantastic at a particular GENRE within that Subject, to TEACH or TUTOR on it.

Specifically, I think it is both narrow-minded and foolish to base the worth and value of a Teacher upon whether one likes the particular Style that the teacher exhibits in their own work.

5. Specifically apropos Photography: there are many “Teachers / Instructors of Photography” who lack: instruction; training and mentoring on the SKILL and CRAFT of TEACHING.

I liken this to how there are many set themselves up as “Professional Photographers” simply upon buying the gear.

WW

[I’ve taught Photography in various manners for a long time, beginning as a part time TAFE Instructor after I graduated with my second Diploma. Specifically, I now tutor HSC (Higher School Certificate) Art Students, whose major theme is Photography and I still hold a couple of Master Classes, each year. From 1997 to 2011. My Company used to take on one or two “Assistants” (usually High School Graduates) for any period of 4 to 12 weeks: but changes in Government policy ended that. I also Judge at competitions: which is akin to teaching. I was taught how to teach. I also have been trained to teach other disciplines (which are diverse from Photography), one example is Learn to Swim and another is a particular Speed Reading technique: there are a few others also.]

[chauncey]

From my own perspective, I would pay a considerable some of money should anyone guarantee
to teach me to be an artist.

[William W]

. . . I would pay a considerable some of money should anyone guarantee
to teach me to be an artist.

I reckon that outcome is 90% you - and only 10% the (correct) teacher.

WW