Sigma pays for camouflaged web advertizing/astrosurfing

[lukaswerth]

The latter term I learned on another forum where I posted this news from this German link:

http://http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/heimliche-werbung-im-internet-das-geschaeft-mit-der-gefaelschten-meinung-1.2211777

It is told there that Sigma payed a Vienna-based company called "Modern Mind Marketing" to place forged messages in user forums and blogs to propagate its products. All German-language, all illegal.

I think it should be known is a company like Sigma uses such methods, ubiquitous as they may be.

Lukas

[Donald]

Is this information verified and confirmed? We certainly don't want the forum to be a rumour-mill for such potentially damaging stories if they are not verified.

[lukaswerth]

Donald,

I haven't verified it, if that's what you mean. But the link goes to an article in one of the most reputed German newspapers. They talk about material they have cited, and this newspaper is normally considered trustworthy. It's not some person's blog or something likewise. As far as I see, the news is as trustworthy as they get. There are other companies involved, by the way; as this s a photographic forum, I mentioned only Sigma.

Lukas

[Donald]

Well, well. Naughty Sigma. If they have been doing that, then they deserve to be hit with penalties.

[Didace]

Is this illegal? I don't believe it is in the US. But I could be wrong. I do know I've seen it - it's usually pretty obvious.

[lukaswerth]

By the way, made a stupid typo: the term is astroturfing, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
and yes, it is illegal in the USA, at least wikipedia says so. It should be also, because it is clear fraud, however common it is. Further, it is not obvious at all, may well occur on any website, including this one. They gave examples in the article: skillfuly written in the informal tone of next click's neighbor chatting and telling about her/his own experiences. This company is paid to pretend, after all.
This has also a political dimension: it is known that Russia and China emplay armies of trolls to influence public opinion of their politics on the net. Back in the early years of the millenium, George W. tried to create such an agency in the USA - not yet illegal in those days, perhaps, I don't know. But I'd say this is a clear danger of current brands of information/surveillance capitalism.

But with regard to this website, on second thoughts, I also think it is more easy on such a dedicated forum than elsewhere to recognize trolls, as most members post on a range of subjects over some time. There is such a thing as virtual acquaintance which makes it more difficult for imposers to break in.

Lukas

[IzzieK]

Very interesting topic. My opinion may not matter much, but if one or two of our members here in CiC is paid to start a conversation about a certain lens brand, then the only thing we can do if we really want that kind of lens is to borrow one for use first before actually making a decision to buy the lens outright. Doesn't this make sense? It is a Buyer's Beware market out there and though I wouldn't want to engage in politics here, I can only say the economy sucks at the moment so companies are doing anything they can to promote their products in any way they can...if this is your company trying to keep up with the competition, will you not do the same? Others are doing it and perhaps they are successful in a way too...

[Inkanyezi]

The whole idea behind is not that one or two start a discussion of a lens brand or similar, but that there is an army of false participants that hold pseudo-discussions about various things. This idea needs a thorough veil of "serious" participation, and that is the way they work. I.e. the "Sigma" guy won't start a Sigma thread, but would participate in various threads on any subject, mimicking a legit user of the site.

And of course the company behind it will spread its virtues over various brands and types of discussions, so it won't be all that easy to spot one. It is not like the easy to spot spammers we find now and then trying to promote worthless computer programs or selling toothpaste, printer ink or vacuum bags. These promoters look like the "next click neighbour" just as the articles state.

So I expect that it might become a growing trend on the web, although it is illegal. I guess we'll have to make it illegal to promote this kind of behaviour, by selling that type of service.

The whistle was blown by Datum, a link that appears in the article from the OP:
http://www.datum.at/artikel/die-netzfluesterer/

[tao2]

Every major company, in all fields of enterprise, does this. Have a look at customer reviews on Amazon,as only one example. Ah use one photography website where 2 or 3 contributors, in around every 3rd post, take turns in extolling the virtues of PS, Creative Cloud, Lightroom etc.(and only those products)

It's been happening for several years now

[HaseebM]

Agree with Smith its been happening for several years now. FB has it. Just pay for their ad to promote your site and bingo, in two days you have 2000 likes.

I can only recall reading Napoleon Hill's Law of Success wherein he states something on the lines of, "Success should be attained without interfering with the rights of others". Don't know if this still holds good in today's world but I practice this with all my heart.