Macro Extreme ... a bit of fun

[jcuknz]

Grahame Stagecoach challenged us with the gear to see what we could achieve.
I am perhaps cheating is that I am using Micro Four Thirds which reduces the amount of extension required.
The rig .... GH2 ..MFTextension tube set [65mm extension], MFT to M42 adaptor [28mm], M42 Bellows [140mm] mounted with front on 50yo tripod, 50mm Pentax Takumar f/1.4 closed down after focusing to f/16

Actual focusing was done by lifting/lowering the whole rig using the tripod's centre column which is slightly above 'full down' for steadiness. Exposure using 10 second delay.

Of no relevance the experiment started with me finding nut and bolt to secure one of the tripod legs which had lost an earlier replacement and I 'wondered why the leg didn't lock into open position [Just visible ]

The Rig

The Result
The tip of the pen is about 3mm so not really that magnification as experts [ that is not me] think.
Whole frame just reduced for Tinypix and here to 700 pixels across x 525 high.

[Shadowman]

Nice setup and capture.

[jcuknz]

While in the mood a couple more using auto extension tubes and CU lens.
I have two sets of auto extension tubes but for some reason I cannot use one of the 16mm with the rest ... camera tells me to check lens mounting and doesn't fire

So 36mm extension tubes and 14 dioptre of CU lens ... suprisingly good from what I expected for a $15 set of four lenses.



With just the maverick 16mm Extension tube



Both at 140mm of zoom [ 280mm equivalent ]

Thankyou for looking

[IzzieK]

I would ask if that is a cat underneath the table, but I like your setup. Interesting experiment....

[DanK]

Interesting test.

I am perhaps cheating is that I am using Micro Four Thirds which reduces the amount of extension required.

Yes and no. The amount of magnification (ratio of object size to size of the image cast on the sensor) is independent of sensor size. What is dependent on sensor size is the amount of magnification (hence, the amount of extension) needed to fill the frame. If you had a 4/3 and a FF with the same pixel density and attached the same lens and extension, and you then cropped the FF image to match the number of pixels in the 4/3 image, you would get the same image. Of course, this is a bit misleading, in that a 4/3 will generally have a much higher pixel density than a FF. That is why I still use my 50D rather than my 5D for some macro: at a given level of magnification, the 50D gives me more pixels on the subject.

[jcuknz]

Izzie .... Yes I see things like that from time to time ... but no ... just scuff marks on my work table which gets painted to 'clean' it but the paint doesn't always go into the holes

[wilgk]

Well done John! & yes I see the pussy cat as well.
Not sure if we've had anyone here from Dunedin before, I won't hijack your thread with "do you know"? But nice to see someone from there. I'm from the Deep South in NZ & trained in Radiography at DPH many moons ago.

[ajohnw]

I'm rather impressed with the Raynox clip on close up lenses John. If Amazon where you are is selling them off I think they are well worth the money. I get the impression that the DCR-250 is more suitable for shorter focal lengths than my 75-300mm.

The ones for DSLR use a 3 and a 2 dioptre really need a none tromboning lens with the 3 on. It's so heavy that even a reasonably stiff zoom with extend fully.

I've had the auto extension ring problem as well. 2 as supplied fine and another and .......... No idea why I even bent the contacts on one to make sure it wasn't that.

John
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[Inkanyezi]

It's been a rather long time that I didn't take any extreme close-ups, but I guess the time will come.

The very wide normal lenses are not my favourite for this, but I have an excellent enlarger lens, Rodenstock Trinar 50/3,5 that is suitable for small things. I have a few microscope lenses as well, and I will try them when I find a suitable subject that I want to photograph.

i found a very good bellows unit, M42 thread, where the front standard can be turned around, so that the rear of the lens faces the subject. For extreme close-up, this places the lens in a way that is more suitable for its correction. It is a Soligor Multiflex Auto Bellows. Not too much auto, but it has a cable release socket to stop down the lens, which can also be done with a knurled button that is depressed and turned to lock. Thus it is easy to focus at full aperture and stop down for shooting with "Auto" lenses. Both front and rear standards can move along the rail with large knobs and a good locking mechanism.

These mint flowers, the buds of which match the pen tip ball in size, were taken with the Trinar 50 mm and bellows:

[jcuknz]

As I played with various combinations I discovered that when using the 14-140 zoom there was no point in adding more than one set of tubes [26mm] as I couldn't find focus at full zoom.

I put this down to a zoom lens is basically a short prime with adaptor lenses incorporated and that the extension tubes are working on the 'prime' but dioptres up front work with the whole lens .... either way a prime seems the more useful tool.

I was going to work with a shorter prime, a CCTV 25mm f/1.8, but discovered that it has a sort of built-in lenshood which stopped me getting close to find true focus ... so I have given up for the time being anyway.
I could make an adaptor to reverse the CCTV lens BUT

Dan .. the exercise as set by Grahame was what one can do using the whole frame ... no cropping




AjohnW ... I saw a Raynox CU lens once but am suspicious that they cause light loss by being relatively smaller than the big lens they are being fitted to ... though since one would normally shoot at a small aperture perhaps that is wrong thinking on my part I also am puzzled by their names as I would expect the 250 to be a 4 dioptre but I believe that is not so? I doubt if many people want to get big magnifcation so the Raynox is obviously a quality tool for getting 'close' but not 'that close'. I prefer the simplicity of a CU lens on a long lens to the rigmarole of extension tubes etc and they meet 99.9% of what I want to do. Bellows/extension tubes date from my film days before I learnt about long lenses and CU lens from owning a bridge camera.

I did discover a 'wheel' in this venture ....that the LCD/EVF gives one a bright image irrespective of aperture, the difference is finding focus is harder when you have more DoF from the small aperture.

[Inkanyezi]

The zoom lens has a problem when using extension rings, mainly because extending the distance to the image plane, moves the front focal point too far back, into the lens itself. It works splendid however, with the lens inverted, and the reproduction scale can be altered with the zoom.

Here's an image of my Soligor Bellows unit with the Trinar attached. It is very rigid, and it has a ¼" thread at the centre of the rail. Could be a good exponent for the "black things" thread (perhaps best viewed in lightbox). Maybe I should have removed the red hot pixel behind the ocular, but I just thought of showing it to get the drift about what kind of unit it is.

[ajohnw]

AjohnW ... I saw a Raynox CU lens once but am suspicious that they cause light loss by being relatively smaller than the big lens they are being fitted to ... though since one would normally shoot at a small aperture perhaps that is wrong thinking on my part I also am puzzled by their names as I would expect the 250 to be a 4 dioptre but I believe that is not so? I doubt if many people want to get big magnifcation so the Raynox is obviously a quality tool for getting 'close' but not 'that close'. I prefer the simplicity of a CU lens on a long lens to the rigmarole of extension tubes etc and they meet 99.9% of what I want to do. Bellows/extension tubes date from my film days before I learnt about long lenses and CU lens from owning a bridge camera.

I did discover a 'wheel' in this venture ....that the LCD/EVF gives one a bright image irrespective of aperture, the difference is finding focus is harder when you have more DoF from the small aperture.

I wondered about the size especially considering the price they were at but when I saw them at around £40 I bought one. Worse still as this seems ok I have also bought the 250.. The 72mm sized ones are pricey and the 3 dioptre one rather heavy.

They have rearranged their site but with a bit of clicking it's possible to get the data up.

http://raynox.co.jp/english/egindex.htm

I may be able to try the 2 DCR types stacked as I think I have suitable adapter rings.

Now I wonder about their teleconverters. Maybe if I can get one from some where that accepts returns without any problems. The way they spec their stuff is interesting, so many line pairs / mm connected to a perfect lens. Some of them have truly amazing resolutions.

John
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[Inkanyezi]

I did discover a 'wheel' in this venture ....that the LCD/EVF gives one a bright image irrespective of aperture, the difference is finding focus is harder when you have more DoF from the small aperture.

You might notice that there can be a "focus drift" when stopping down a large aperture lens from focus found at widest aperture. When I focus manually and intend to use a smaller aperture, I usually stop down two steps, which gives a crisper image with more distinct sharpness. At f/4 it is still easy to find focus, and focus thus found may be closer to optimal.

Lenses also generally perform better when inverted at larger than life reproduction.

I tried the ballpoint tip, but it's not the easiest thing to get it into position.

[jcuknz]

ajohnw #12
I have both the Raynox 2020 and the Olympus TCON x1.7 ... the later no longer made I believe.
Both are of similar IQ but I prefer the TCON as it permits me to zoom back [ on my x12 zoomed Panasonic FZ50 ] to about x7 before it vignettes. It is very frustrating to be 'too close' after fitting the adaptor. The 2020 starts almost immediately. [It was my first purchase]
Both 'consume' about a third of a stop when used on the FZ50 but when used with my 14-140 the already slow f/5.8 becomes effectively about f/10 though this doesn't affect focusing as such an aperture might with tele converters on a DSLR rig.
I have not used the 2020 in a couple of years while the TCON accompanies my GH2 and although it vignettes somewhat it gives near to a 500mm AoV from the 280mm AOV without it.

Of course I would be better to get the 100-300 lens for the GH2 but with the 950mm AoV of Raynox on FZ50 I don't see I have a need with the little photography I'm doing these days , nor into bird watching

The 2020 is an earlier version of the 2025 and doesn't have a lenshood thread, I made my hood out of a plastic drainpipe connector, very slight vignetting but improves IQ considerably.


Shows rig with collar to mount on tripod [ 3" thick wall aluminium tube I happened to have around ]

This is a quarter crop when using the 2020 with my earlier FZ30.



This fellow wouldn't come and play, TCON on 14-140



Hope these comments help you until you find one to play with

[jcuknz]

That is the best magnification we have seen so far Urban

[Stagecoach]

That is the best magnification we have seen so far Urban

Oh no it's not

You need to compare like for like John.

[ajohnw]

ajohnw #12
I have both the Raynox 2020 and the Olympus TCON x1.7 ... the later no longer made I believe.
Both are of similar IQ but I prefer the TCON as it permits me to zoom back [ on my x12 zoomed Panasonic FZ50 ] to about x7 before it vignettes. It is very frustrating to be 'too close' after fitting the adaptor. The 2020 starts almost immediately. [It was my first purchase]
Both 'consume' about a third of a stop when used on the FZ50 but when used with my 14-140 the already slow f/5.8 becomes effectively about f/10 though this doesn't affect focusing as such an aperture might with tele converters on a DSLR rig.
I have not used the 2020 in a couple of years while the TCON accompanies my GH2 and although it vignettes somewhat it gives near to a 500mm AoV from the 280mm AOV without it.

Of course I would be better to get the 100-300 lens for the GH2 but with the 950mm AoV of Raynox on FZ50 I don't see I have a need with the little photography I'm doing these days , nor into bird watching

The 2020 is an earlier version of the 2025 and doesn't have a lenshood thread, I made my hood out of a plastic drainpipe connector, very slight vignetting but improves IQ considerably.


Shows rig with collar to mount on tripod [ 3" thick wall aluminium tube I happened to have around ]

This is a quarter crop when using the 2020 with my earlier FZ30.



This fellow wouldn't come and play, TCON on 14-140



Hope these comments help you until you find one to play with

Thanks Urban. It's a tough decision now that Olympus have introduced the m 4/3 1.4x converter. That will loose 1 stop. With the front fitting Raynox I may get vignetting, have to screw it on where as the 1.4x can be left on. The Raynox is also designed to be used on smaller sensor cameras in their longer focal length settings hence the chance of vignetting. I've been looking at the one they spec at 360 lp/mm in the centre, 1.57x ?? from memory. Main aim is to use it on the 75-300mm.

The 1.4x makes more sense really but then comes a problem. Currently if I buy it with the 40-150mm F2.8 I save 100 quid over buying the 2 separately. Trouble is that the F2.8 lens seriously ups the weight of my gear so I wish they had made an F4.. No one will discount this either even though most retailers have to get it in to order. A pet hate of mine. Keeping the profit and not having stock.

So I am likely to buy the Olympus converter either with or without the 40-150mm F2.8 shortly but still wonder about the Raynox solution. Part of me also feels that £1500 is an obscene amount to spend on the lens plus converter especially as I am happy with the plastic lens.

John
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[Inkanyezi]

I'll show a couple more of shots of the bellows unit, which I find is one of my best acquirements for macro work. It is not only very rigid, but very versatile as well. Both standards run along the rail that is made of rigid aluminium.

The cable release socket and stop-down button are seen on the lower part of the front standard. The button can be twist-locked in the stopped down position.

Turning the front standard around points the lens toward the camera and the rear end to the subject. The bellows are detached from the standard by just turning a screw to release it.



Then when the lens points back to the camera, the bellows clip onto the front end of the lens that has a diameter of 57 mm. It can also be clipped onto a filter ring from a 55 mm screw-in filter, or a z-ring with the same diameter. The M42 thread socket can be turned to any angle, allowing landscape/portrait or oblique orientation.

[Stagecoach]

It looks a good sturdy unit Urban, and well photographed.

[Inkanyezi]

With the Pentacon 29 mm lens turned end for end, this is what the ballpoint tip becomes. The image is not cropped. Depth of field is rather shallow at this distance.