Exposure Compensation

[george013]

Quote Originally Posted by george013 View Post
you clame that ETTR is placing the white point when you expose the image. That's someting as placing the whitepoint in the correct zone.

True, you place the white point in its correct zone - or you can place any other point of your choice, into its relevant zone. When your image will not have any white at all, you surely would place the most exposed pixels in another zone.

It should also be noted, that the zone system is defined for B&W imaging, and we mostly use colour in our digital imagery. The zones are not quite relevant as originally designed. A red that is close to clipping is not as bright as a white that is close to clipping, but still, it must be held within the limits of your representation of the image, the file, in order to be rendered well in the presentation of the same.

You call this ETTR, which isn't. That's my problem.

George

[pnodrog]

You call this ETTR, which isn't. That's my problem.

George

Please post your exact definition of ETTR. At this stage I can only conclude you are debating from a false understanding of the term.

P.S. Please do not post your method of achieving ETTR as there will be a number of suitable method of achieving it. Just your basic definition of the term ETTR.

[Inkanyezi]

You call this ETTR, which isn't. That's my problem.

I frankly don't know what your problem might be. Of course, you may define "white point" as the maximum level of bytes in one single channel, and then it is the white point. That definition is OK with me, but linguistically it becomes a bit misleading, because the red poppy is not white, and in the image, a full red will be closer to zone VII. This also explains why an integrated meter will assess it erroneously, as if it is a full red from a poppy, it will be one full red channel and two empty, black, channels. The meter will see one full bright (red) plus two black (green and blue).

Nevertheless, if you bring it right up to the right edge of the histogram, it is "exposing to the right" by definition. Exposing to the right means to expose the scene, so that the brightest channel will reach the maximum possible brightness, but not overflow it - in RAW.

If you don't understand the concept of exposing to the right, go back to sources and read again and try to have the coin drop for once. If there is a statement somewhere that suggests over-exposure, disregard it, because it is not so. It is a controlled exposure, where you get the most out of the RAW file, a file exposed so that it hits, but not overflows the maximum possible exposure for at least one of the channels.

[xpatUSA]

Just in case someone missed it, I'll repeat:

I think ETTR is yet another photographic term which, by itself, means different things and should really be qualified. Some people do - and some people don't - hence confusion reigns.

(my emph.)

Since "ETTR" is continuing to be mentioned all by itself without qualification in this thread, confusion is continuing to reign

[george013]

I frankly don't know what your problem might be. Of course, you may define "white point" as the maximum level of bytes in one single channel, and then it is the white point. That definition is OK with me, but linguistically it becomes a bit misleading, because the red poppy is not white, and in the image, a full red will be closer to zone VII. This also explains why an integrated meter will assess it erroneously, as if it is a full red from a poppy, it will be one full red channel and two empty, black, channels. The meter will see one full bright (red) plus two black (green and blue).

Nevertheless, if you bring it right up to the right edge of the histogram, it is "exposing to the right" by definition. Exposing to the right means to expose the scene, so that the brightest channel will reach the maximum possible brightness, but not overflow it - in RAW.

If you don't understand the concept of exposing to the right, go back to sources and read again and try to have the coin drop for once. If there is a statement somewhere that suggests over-exposure, disregard it, because it is not so. It is a controlled exposure, where you get the most out of the RAW file, a file exposed so that it hits, but not overflows the maximum possible exposure for at least one of the channels.

I know what exposing to the right means. By definition it means over exposing your image without clipping and then in pp bring it back to the right exposure, the exposure you want.. To do that you must have off course a scene where there is some left on the right site of the histogram for your over-exposure.

Doing a search with Google gives me 370.000 hits. I examined several of them and they all say the same. Also in the tutorial here. Some with other words but allways the same idea. Pushing the histogram to the right border, or over-exposing to the right border, and then bring it back to what you think is good in pp.
None of them is mentioning setting the white point on the right place.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/technique/...t-is-ettr.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right
http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/6.2.html
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...techniques.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...se-right.shtml
and about 369995 more. I didn't check that.

George

[Inkanyezi]

I know what exposing to the right means. By definition it means over exposing your image /.../

Hence you really do not know, and you accuse me of lying. It is very offensive, you know.
Do it once more, and I will not accept it in any way. I have no reason to take such drivel.

There is one article you omitted, maybe the second most important one, the second written by Michael Reichmann in August 2011: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...exposure.shtml

I think you didn't do that on purpose, just that you didn't study the subject thoroughly, looking for the wrong thing, anything that could confirm your incomprehension. Read it thoroughly, then also read Guillermo Luijk's work on UNI-WB: http://www.guillermoluijk.com/tutori...b/index_en.htm

Exposing to the right in no way proposes over-exposing, but to expose to the highest level possible without clipping any channel. That is not over-exposure, but it is ETTR.

[Manfred M]

Okay folks - earlier today I asked people posting to be a bit more civil. Reading the last few posts shows me that this is not happening.

These forums are not a place for name calling and accusations, and this one has degenerated to this point again, where the postings are really getting a bit out of line..

Time to close it down and give people a chance to start being civil to each other again, please.


Manfred