Trying to take an indoor Christmas scene

[skitterbug]

Hi! I'm new but learning. I've taken around 3,000 pics with my Rebel T3i - some good and some not. My latest try is capturing our church decorated for Christmas. I cannot use flash. I have to take the pics from the balcony and our church is fairly large. I've not walked it off but maybe I should?

Anyway, my attempts ended up having glare from the overhead lights, an orangish cast and are not as sharp as I would think they should be. I tried a wide angle lens -SD 11-16 F2.8 (1F) DX - Ski 1A lens filter, an EFS 18-55mm - Zeikus UV lens filter, and an EFS 55-250mm- Ski 1A (which did help a little with sharper pics). All my pics had an orangish cast and all had a bright glare.

So my question: What does anyone suggest that I should try (which lens - settings- lens filter?) to use to get the front half of the church captured. I would like to stick to auto focusing but I am game when it comes to trying other settings?

Thank you for 'listening'. This is my first post with a question so please be gentle!

Skitterbug

ps: I've been reading the tutorials but haven't found an answer in them yet for my situation!

[FrankMi]

Hi skitterbug and welcome to CiC! The orangish cast you are describing sounds like the warm tone emitted by tungsten lighting. This is usually corrected by the White Balance setting in your camera. Take a look at this tutorial for white balance background information and your camera user manual on setting white balance.

For indoor shooting I wouldn't use a filter.

Unless you are using a tripod, the images may not be so much out of focus as likely camera movement and a slow shutter speed. Indoors you often need a slow shutter speed and a sturdy camera and shutter release cable can go a long way towards reducing camera shake.

[Manfred M]

Welcome to CiC. As a first step, would you mind completing your profile - it would be nice to know where you are from. As well, we are a pretty informal group here, and tend to go on a first name basis.

Frank has already hit a couple of the things I was planning to mention. Usually it is best if you posted some examples of the images you've taken. The old adage that a picture is worth 1000 words is quite true for trying to analyse what issues you are having.

My guess is that the glare is likely caused by one of two issues. This is caused by internal reflections off the filter or lens elements. A lens hood may (or may not) help here, so if you have one for that lens, try it to see if that helps. The other possibility is that your lens filter is an uncoated one; these are particularly prone to flare. Try shooting these shots without it; if the flare goes away or is reduced, that is your problem.

It's really hard to give advice beyond that. A flash would not be an option in any case, as it would overpower any lights on the decorations. Frank has given you the same advice I would, try the tungsten white balance setting on your camera to see what that does. The auto white balance often gives strange results under tungsten lights.

The lack of sharpness could be a focus issue, but as Frank has already written, motion blur from too low a shutter speed is the likely culprit here. Your lenses are not particularly "fast", i.e. they have a relatively low light gathering capability. The only solutions are to shoot using a tripod or increasing the sensitivity of your camera, i.e. increase the ISO setting. This may not be the best thing as sensor noise will likely become an issue, but if you don't have a tripod, this may be your best option. Try the auto-ISO setting on your camera to see what happens.

As for shooting location, as we do not know the configuration or size of the church, I wouldn't know the best place to begin. The 18mm setting on your lens is relatively wide angle, so you could try to get fairly close. Zooming in from a distance from the balcony is going to be a bit problematic without a tripod.

I hope that this helps...

[skitterbug]

As much as I dislike reading the manuals, I've been doing a lot of it lately! After reading the tutorial, my Canon EOS Rebel for Dummies Book and based on your reply, I probably should try the Tungsten WB setting for starters? I do have a tri-pod but I don't have a shutter release cable yet - not sure what one would serve my needs. I can probably get some support from the ledge to help stabilize my camera.

So now I suppose the next item I'd want to know is what shutter speed should I try? Or do I leave that on automatic? And which of the three lenses should I use (noted - without lens filter applied).

Thanks for your reply!

Skitterbug

[skitterbug]

Welcome to CiC. As a first step, would you mind completing your profile - it would be nice to know where you are from. As well, we are a pretty informal group here, and tend to go on a first name basis.

Frank has already hit a couple of the things I was planning to mention. Usually it is best if you posted some examples of the images you've taken. The old adage that a picture is worth 1000 words is quite true for trying to analyse what issues you are having.

My guess is that the glare is likely caused by one of two issues. This is caused by internal reflections off the filter or lens elements. A lens hood may (or may not) help here, so if you have one for that lens, try it to see if that helps. The other possibility is that your lens filter is an uncoated one; these are particularly prone to flare. Try shooting these shots without it; if the flare goes away or is reduced, that is your problem.

It's really hard to give advice beyond that. A flash would not be an option in any case, as it would overpower any lights on the decorations. Frank has given you the same advice I would, try the tungsten white balance setting on your camera to see what that does. The auto white balance often gives strange results under tungsten lights.

The lack of sharpness could be a focus issue, but as Frank has already written, motion blur from too low a shutter speed is the likely culprit here. Your lenses are not particularly "fast", i.e. they have a relatively low light gathering capability. The only solutions are to shoot using a tripod or increasing the sensitivity of your camera, i.e. increase the ISO setting. This may not be the best thing as sensor noise will likely become an issue, but if you don't have a tripod, this may be your best option. Try the auto-ISO setting on your camera to see what happens.

As for shooting location, as we do not know the configuration or size of the church, I wouldn't know the best place to begin. The 18mm setting on your lens is relatively wide angle, so you could try to get fairly close. Zooming in from a distance from the balcony is going to be a bit problematic without a tripod.

I hope that this helps...

Thank you for your reply! I forgot to use the "Reply with Quote" for my answer to Frank. I appreciated his reply and yours too. I posted a couple more questions in my response to Frank. You answered the one about the ISO setting but out of the three lenses that I have listed in my first post, which do you (or Frank) think is the best to experiment with? It would really be fun to get decent pics of these decorations!

Skitterbug

[skitterbug]

The info from the pic says the following about this pic: Focal length - 16, Exposure time - 1/100
Hope this isn't too big. New to doing this. I didn't see the resize choice. I left it at Default.
I have another example that I can post.

Focal length: 55 Exposure time: 1/100

So after seeing these two, what do you think my next try should be?

Thanks,

Skitterbug

[Manfred M]

I think I tried to answer one of your questions on lenses / settings. I don't know the layout of your church, but a good rule of thumb for most shooting is to get close to your subject matter. The 18-55mm lens is likely where I would start.

A remote shutter release is more important for moderately long exposures on a tripod; anything that is reasonably short or very long, much less so. I use a tripod a lot (I own four of them) and just use the camera shutter release button, rather than a remote release, for most of my work (I own several of those as well).

Your shutter speed will be dictated by the ISO setting you choose (I tend to go as low as I can here) and the aperture setting you choose (depending on the depth of field you are looking for in your composition). Again, if you shoot from a tripod, the shutter speed will not be as important as the other two settings. If you are fairly new to this (and with 3000 shots on your camera, you are fairly new), going fully automatic might be the best place to start, and then adjust as you review your results.

[Manfred M]

The info from the pic says the following about this pic: Focal length - 16, Exposure time - 1/100
Hope this isn't too big. New to doing this. I didn't see the resize choice. I left it at Default.
I have another example that I can post.

Focal length: 55 Exposure time: 1/100

So after seeing these two, what do you think my next try should be?

Thanks,

Skitterbug

Get closer; much closer... I see a lot of church and some Christmas decorations way in the distance...

[skitterbug]

Get closer; much closer... I see a lot of church and some Christmas decorations way in the distance...

I'd like to but I can't interfere with the service. My only option is from the balcony..... (sigh) Thanks for your help. I'll keep trying! That's my motto!

[Manfred M]

I'd like to but I can't interfere with the service. My only option is from the balcony..... (sigh) Thanks for your help. I'll keep trying! That's my motto!

In that case you will need to shoot the 55-250mm (towards the 250mm end). A longer lens pretty well means a tripod is mandatory. The relatively slow shutter speeds and long focal length mean hand-holding will not work. Shoot at a wide wide open to minimize your shutter speed.

[skitterbug]

I'll be curious to see if I can pull this off. Since I don't have a camera shutter release button (wired or wireless), do you think it is possible to mount the camera on the tripod and snap the pic? Or will this cause too much shake?
(I'm full of questions - thanks for your patience! BTW, your work is beautiful!)

[Stagecoach]

I'll be curious to see if I can pull this off. Since I don't have a camera shutter release button (wired or wireless), do you think it is possible to mount the camera on the tripod and snap the pic? Or will this cause too much shake?
(I'm full of questions - thanks for your patience! BTW, your work is beautiful!)

Does your camera have a 'timed' release?

If not, one hand holding the tripod down, the other pressing the shutter button smoothly.

[GeoBonsai]

How to make a digital image of an indoor Christmas scene:

1. Attach your camera to a tripod.
2. If you have one, attach a shutter-release cable to your camera (or use a remote device).
3. Turn off flash (or physically hold down the flash "door").
4. Turn off image stabilization/vibration reduction feature on lens.
5. Set dial to aperture-priority mode so camera selects shutter speed.
6. Set ISO to 100 ISO if you want (on a tripod) up to 1600 ISO--whatever
7. Set white balance (WB) to auto (save yourself a step here )
8. Select f/16 or f/22 so the lights will produce stars.
9. Remove all lens filters to help avoid flare/glare.
10. Attach a lens hood to help avoid flare/glare from sides.
11. Compose your image for design (and to avoid apparent flare/glare).
12. Auto focus on an object 1/3 of the way into the scene and make the shot (look through the view finder for the "in focus" indicator icon, usually a little white dot at lower left).

• If you don't have a shutter-release cable/remote, press the shutter button on the camera half way to auto focus then release the shutter button and set a delay so the camera will be steady for the shot.
• If you have a shutter-release cable/remote, press the shutter release on the cable/remote half way to auto focus then press all the way to make the image.
• Alternatively, just simply press the shutter button on the camera as you would with any shot.

1. Wait! Don't touch the camera! A slow shutter speed takes a long while to process in camera.

[skitterbug]

Does your camera have a 'timed' release?

If not, one hand holding the tripod down, the other pressing the shutter button smoothly.

Yes, it does have a time release! Never used it. Does the camera focus itself before snapping the pic?

[skitterbug]

How to make a digital image of an indoor Christmas scene:

1. Attach your camera to a tripod.
2. If you have one, attach a shutter-release cable to your camera (or use a remote device).
3. Turn off flash (or physically hold down the flash "door").
4. Turn off image stabilization/vibration reduction feature on lens.
5. Set dial to aperture-priority mode so camera selects shutter speed.
6. Set ISO to 100 ISO if you want (on a tripod) up to 1600 ISO--whatever
7. Set white balance (WB) to auto (save yourself a step here )
8. Select f/16 or f/22 so the lights will produce stars.
9. Remove all lens filters to help avoid flare/glare.
10. Attach a lens hood to help avoid flare/glare from sides.
11. Compose your image for design (and to avoid apparent flare/glare).
12. Auto focus on an object 1/3 of the way into the scene and make the shot (look through the view finder for the "in focus" indicator icon, usually a little white dot at lower left).

• If you don't have a shutter-release cable/remote, press the shutter button on the camera half way to auto focus then release the shutter button and set a delay so the camera will be steady for the shot.
• If you have a shutter-release cable/remote, press the shutter release on the cable/remote half way to auto focus then press all the way to make the image.
• Alternatively, just simply press the shutter button on the camera as you would with any shot.

1. Wait! Don't touch the camera! A slow shutter speed takes a long while to process in camera.

You answered my question about the shutter release! Plus you added lots of interesting info! Thanks!

[IzzieK]

Sine you said you are in the balcony, why not use the railing to steady your shot. Just be careful you do not drop your camera on top of someone else down the ground floor in case you got too excited... Really, there are many ways to skin a cat here just to take photographs.

[skitterbug]

Sine you said you are in the balcony, why not use the railing to steady your shot. Just be careful you do not drop your camera on top of someone else down the ground floor in case you got too excited... Really, there are many ways to skin a cat here just to take photographs.

Now there's a mental image - me, in the balcony, trying to capture a perfect pic.....camera bouncing it's way down to the floor below - fortunately no people directly below the rail! <YIKES> Now people turning and looking! Me - red with embarrassment - fleeing the premise without even stopping to recover fallen camera! Oh what a Happy Christmas that would be.......NOT!
I try never to think about all the horrible stuff that could happen! The operative word is "try". My hope is that my pics turn out okay and that we all have a Merry Christmas!

[FrankMi]

As much as I dislike reading the manuals, I've been doing a lot of it lately! After reading the tutorial, my Canon EOS Rebel for Dummies Book and based on your reply, I probably should try the Tungsten WB setting for starters? I do have a tri-pod but I don't have a shutter release cable yet - not sure what one would serve my needs. I can probably get some support from the ledge to help stabilize my camera.

So now I suppose the next item I'd want to know is what shutter speed should I try? Or do I leave that on automatic? And which of the three lenses should I use (noted - without lens filter applied).

Thanks for your reply!

Skitterbug

I see you've gotten some answers. For shutter speed in this situation I would choose Aperture Priority and set the aperture close to 2-3 stops down from it's highest setting. That usually gets the sharpest image (least distortion) at the focal point. Aperture Priority will then set your shutter speed for you. If the shutter speed is between 0.5 and 5 seconds, the camera shake can be minimized by using a cable release. Mirror slap can be dealt with by using Live View.

Anytime I am shooting a static scene, particularly indoors with outside window views, I shoot a Bracketed Exposure set of three images just in case the metering gets fooled or there is a wide range of exposure values that might muddy the shadows or blow out the highlights.

From the images you've posted you're doing just fine! If you do any post processing, you could blend in just the lights and really bright reflections from an underexposed image to pick up some detail there. The shadow detail looks great.

[GeoBonsai]

Regardless of focal length, set aperture to f/16 or f/22 in aperture-priority mode to get stars on the lights. This may increase the shutter speed to 1/25 second or slower so use a tripod to eliminate the blur. Otherwise, great color and composition in the images you posted above. You're getting there!

[Loose Canon]

You know skits, you have received some of the bestest advice available. Here or anywhere.

From some of the most talented and respected photographers in the Forum.

You are off to a rocking good run!

I'm afraid I'm just not seeing how these shots are so horrifyingly traumatic myself skittles!

Just a little quickie TLC in post helps bring your shots home! It is the other (and just as important) half of shooting.

This is exactly what I would expect to see from this scene. Sure your ceiling lights are blown. They do that. I'm not noticing any flare here so much. A bit more in post production and I would hazard to say they the church would love the print. In fact, this shot is about the most accurately symmetrical shot I have seen recently. Very cool and good eye!

Just a little white balance correction, a tad of noise reduction, re-sharpening, and I thought the shot was very acceptable.

Before and after.