What is a proof sheet?

[vladimir]

I was given an opportunity to take some photos of a performance by a local ballet studio, and the owner asked for "proof sheets", so she can decide which ones to allow for publishing and which not to.
Those must come as prints - NOT on the computer screen.
Of about 700 photos I took, I am planning to show her about 200.
And I want to do it "like a pro"
The question is - how would the pro do it?
How should the proof sheet look?
I need some guidance as to the size of a page and the size of each image for proofing.
I was thinking - 4 images on a 4x6 paper? ...but not sure...
I have the technology to arrange them as needed - Lightroom 5.7
The actual printing would happen at Costco - not at home.
All advice will be highly appreciated

[Shadowman]

See the attached, the number shown is what would have been typical for film, digital presentation is very different.

http://www.halfhill.com/proof.html

I have a printer that automatically does proof sheets directly from a memory card, the number of images per sheet will probably make you reconsider the total number of images you submit. Of the 200 images you plan to show, are they all good representations of your work or can you consider reducing the number submitted?

[IzzieK]

Vladimmer -- 200 is far too many. "Proofs" to me means only a partial part of your best work to show and they do not have to choose so much from that, that they go bonkers when viewing too many. Print only a reasonable number. And make it small as the example of John -- that was a good link too btw, John -- 30 in one page and your client/s won't be able to scan and enlarge it as much. Just a thought...

[vladimir]

Thanks John and Izzie,
The lady wants full control over which pictures can be shown to "the public" and which can't. Showing her a partial work doesn't work in this case. I shouldn't "publish" what she had not seen.
"The public" is mostly parents, friends and relatives of the dancers. To me - the more dancers (in more dances) are shown - the better. In the end - people are mostly interested in the photos with their kids. That's why the big number. I could reduce the number somewhat, but not too drastically.
30 in a page seems like a lot. I understand - those are the sizes of 35mm negatives, and as John mentioned - "digital presentation is very different".
So, what sizes does your printer make for proof sheets, John?

[Shadowman]

Thanks John and Izzie,
The lady wants full control over which pictures can be shown to "the public" and which can't. Showing her a partial work doesn't work in this case. I shouldn't "publish" what she had not seen.
"The public" is mostly parents, friends and relatives of the dancers. To me - the more dancers (in more dances) are shown - the better. In the end - people are mostly interested in the photos with their kids. That's why the big number. I could reduce the number somewhat, but not too drastically.
30 in a page seems like a lot. I understand - those are the sizes of 35mm negatives, and as John mentioned - "digital presentation is very different".
So, what sizes does your printer make for proof sheets, John?

Vladimir,

My printer can make proof sheets 4"x6" or 8.5" x 11", typically each image would be about 2"x3".

[Geoff F]

Before getting Adobe Bridge which gives me digital thumbnail images, I used to print off sheets of thumbnails each around 2 ins wide (15 approx on an A4 page 8 x 12 ins). I wouldn't want to go any smaller.

I included the image identification numbers under the images for easy reference.

[Shadowman]

Before getting Adobe Bridge which gives me digital thumbnail images, I used to print off sheets of thumbnails each around 2 ins wide (15 approx on an A4 page 8 x 12 ins). I wouldn't want to go any smaller.

I included the image identification numbers under the images for easy reference.

I think the smaller images per proof sheet, as shown in the link; was for viewing with a loupe. Not sure if editors view images the same way anymore.

[vladimir]

Great, thanks! What a useful forum this is!
2x3 for a thumbnail makes sense.
Interestingly - an 8x12 print costs about 10x more than a 4x6 print, while being only 4 times larger.
I think I'll stick with 4x6
I will include ID's, of course.

[Shadowman]

Great, thanks! What a useful forum this is!
2x3 for a thumbnail makes sense.
Interestingly - an 8x12 print costs about 10x more than a 4x6 print, while being only 4 times larger.
I think I'll stick with 4x6
I will include ID's, of course.

Try Amazon, prices are much better.

[vladimir]

Amazon!? Never heard of printing there.
Could you be more specific as to how it works, please?
Tried searching variations of "photo print" on Amazon.com, and getting only apps for phones and Kindle.
Is there something that works with PC?
And it's better than $0.13 per for 4x6 print?

[Shadowman]

Amazon!? Never heard of printing there.
Could you be more specific as to how it works, please?
Tried searching variations of "photo print" on Amazon.com, and getting only apps for phones and Kindle.
Is there something that works with PC?
And it's better than $0.13 per for 4x6 print?

Vladimir,

Not printing, I thought you were taking about the price of photo paper.

[Manfred M]

To me a proof sheet = a contact sheet from the film days. Five rows of a strip of six negatives on an 8" x 10" print (36 24mm x 36mm images on a single sheet). In today's world, Photoshop's <File> <Automate> <Contact Sheet II> is what is being discused:

[HaseebM]

Can't that be shown on a monitor?

[Manfred M]

Can't that be shown on a monitor?

It could be, but a lot of people have a paper based workflow. With a contact sheet it is easy for the customer to go through the images and mark up the physical contact sheet. Not only can the customer give you his or her list of shots he or she wants, but can also show crops and pp requirements on specific images.

[JR1]

I was given an opportunity to take some photos of a performance by a local ballet studio, and the owner asked for "proof sheets", so she can decide which ones to allow for publishing and which not to.
Those must come as prints - NOT on the computer screen.
Of about 700 photos I took, I am planning to show her about 200.
And I want to do it "like a pro"
The question is - how would the pro do it?
How should the proof sheet look?
I need some guidance as to the size of a page and the size of each image for proofing.
I was thinking - 4 images on a 4x6 paper? ...but not sure...
I have the technology to arrange them as needed - Lightroom 5.7
The actual printing would happen at Costco - not at home.
All advice will be highly appreciated

You obviously were never around when film was used



36 exposures on 1 8x10

[JR1]

Can't that be shown on a monitor?

It can in great software such as Pintshop Pro 7

[Polar01]

Vladimir I think you have a bigger problem than producing a contact or proof sheet. That problem is the owner of the studio who sounds to me to be a control nut. What does the agreement between you and her state about the images, what were you contracted to provide and at what cost was the purchaser going to pay for that item. Lets say that you agreed to provide jpeg images, and to provide printed images of those chosen by her at a agreed cost per image. Now she wants printed proofs, ok 30 images per sheet equals 120 sheets at $10.00 per sheet cost now $120.00, remember your time, effort, cost, and some profit to you. She now picks the images from the printed proofs, you print out at agreed size and cost, if the image is poor quality then not you fault as she had final say as to what was printed.
Next time get is all spelled out before hand as to what is provided by you and what is expected by the customer.

Cheers: Allan

[Dave Humphries]

It can in great software such as Pintshop Pro 7

I'm sorry Jeremy - I cannot let this "typo of the week" pass with out comment - or perhaps even a trip to the pub

[Manfred M]

I'm sorry Jeremy - I cannot let this "typo of the week" pass with out comment - or perhaps even a trip to the pub

Thank you Dave; I bit my tongue too. The ultimate Freudian slip of the week, perhaps?

[vladimir]

Vladimir I think you have a bigger problem than producing a contact or proof sheet. That problem is the owner of the studio who sounds to me to be a control nut. What does the agreement between you and her state about the images, what were you contracted to provide and at what cost was the purchaser going to pay for that item. Lets say that you agreed to provide jpeg images, and to provide printed images of those chosen by her at a agreed cost per image. Now she wants printed proofs, ok 30 images per sheet equals 120 sheets at $10.00 per sheet cost now $120.00, remember your time, effort, cost, and some profit to you. She now picks the images from the printed proofs, you print out at agreed size and cost, if the image is poor quality then not you fault as she had final say as to what was printed.
Next time get is all spelled out before hand as to what is provided by you and what is expected by the customer.

Cheers: Allan

Allan, I think there is some confusion around the word 'studio' here. It's not the photo studio I am dealing with - it's a ballet studio. There is no real agreement to speak of. I offered to take pictures (because my daughter is one of the dancers, and because it's pretty and interesting to photograph), and she agreed. That's all there is to it. Everything else is TBD, including the "final product". Not sure if it's going to be JPEG's, or something else. Getting it all spelled out sounds like a good idea, but I'd need to learn a lot before I can spell out an agreement like that, and then we'd need to negotiate, etc... Sounds like a drag...
I think I'll just go with the flow for now.
Profit, while it sounds interesting in theory, is not the objective in this case.
And the control that she wants over what's OK to show to others and what's not - that has more to do with the appearance of her studio's performance and less to do with the photo quality of the pictures.