how to make a composite look real in photoshop

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Originally Posted by cuilin

thanks. even if they're from the same image, is the light the same on the bike and the crates? for example, if the crates were from the background and were completely in shadow while the bike wasn't then they'd be in different light and you'd expect to see shadows and highlights on the bike that you wouldn't expect on the crates. but you would see that shadow in the original source image and it would make sense to your brain. if you don't see that shadow but the crates and the bike are still together then it doesn't make sense. it could be a million different situations, but once you know what details you're looking for you can start piecing the images together in a cohesive manner.

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Hi Beth.

The light on the bike is my doing in pp i added an adjustment layer to brighten it up but i overdid it. i wanted to keep the background muted, what i should have done is some dodging and burning, but one thing at a time, so now i need to apply another adjustment layer to bring it back down. I know i should be able to alter the existing layer but i seem to have lost it!!! its all a huge learning curve and really i should start the edit from scratch.....

Hears the original image

http://i57.tinypic.com/w7bh3n.jpg

Here is a suggestion, clip the adjustment layer to the layer that has the bike on it. By doing that the adjustment is only applied to the layer that it is clipped to. Usually the adjustment layer affects all layers below but by clipping it to a layer only that layer is affected.

Cheers: Allan

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Originally Posted by Mark von Kanel

Hi Beth.

The light on the bike is my doing in pp i added an adjustment layer to brighten it up but i overdid it. i wanted to keep the background muted, what i should have done is some dodging and burning, but one thing at a time, so now i need to apply another adjustment layer to bring it back down. I know i should be able to alter the existing layer but i seem to have lost it!!! its all a huge learning curve and really i should start the edit from scratch.....

Hears the original image

http://i57.tinypic.com/w7bh3n.jpg

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the light i'm talking about on the bike is in the original image as well as in the composite. look on the bit on the front wheel well, it's got a highlight. the backside doesn't, it's even darker in shadow. ignoring the reflections in the metal parts, you have same thing for the black part in front of the seat, there's a highlight, and on the seat, and along the top of the back tire and the saddle bags. there is light and shadow all along the bike that doesn't match the composited background because it uses 2 very small piece of the background that don't have a lot of differentiation in light. in your original image you have subtle light and shadows throughout the background that make a big difference in helping your brain and eye to make sense of the image and the light, but now those details are missing in the composite. it does sound like nitpicking, but when you go from a flat background to a 3d background with highlights and shadows it makes the whole thing more realistic. especially if you can make the background light match the light on the subject.

just a thought, but for your first composite you might be better off using a background from a completely different image. trying to get the bike to match that background will help you figure out how to fake the light.

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Originally Posted by Polar01

Here is a suggestion, clip the adjustment layer to the layer that has the bike on it. By doing that the adjustment is only applied to the layer that it is clipped to. Usually the adjustment layer affects all layers below but by clipping it to a layer only that layer is affected.

Cheers: Allan

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How is that done Allen?

Mark sorry to take so long to reply out most of day. To create what is called a clipping mask in Photoshop is not very hard. Lets say you added a curves adjustment layer, now with that layer highlighted right click "Create clipping mask", now that adjustment only applies to the layer that it is clipped to (see little arrow).

Cheers: Allan

Mark #15
To apply an adjustment layer to just one layer you need to organise the layers as groups ... it gets a bit complicated remembering which is affecting what but it is do-able :).

John you do not have to organize the layers as groups to apply a adjustment layer. In some images where you are double processing the same image, say sky and mountain side it can be easier to groups all the adjustments layers for the sky in one group and all the adjustments for the mountain side in another group to keep your head straight. However in a simple two image composite it is not needed.

Cheers: Allan

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the light i'm talking about on the bike is in the original image as well as in the composite. look on the bit on the front wheel well, it's got a highlight. the backside doesn't, it's even darker in shadow. ignoring the reflections in the metal parts, you have same thing for the black part in front of the seat, there's a highlight, and on the seat, and along the top of the back tire and the saddle bags. there is light and shadow all along the bike that doesn't match the composited background because it uses 2 very small piece of the background that don't have a lot of differentiation in light. in your original image you have subtle light and shadows throughout the background that make a big difference in helping your brain and eye to make sense of the image and the light, but now those details are missing in the composite. it does sound like nitpicking, but when you go from a flat background to a 3d background with highlights and shadows it makes the whole thing more realistic. especially if you can make the background light match the light on the subject.

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Thanks Beth im beginning to get it. but im more of an engineer than an artist....

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just a thought, but for your first composite you might be better off using a background from a completely different image. trying to get the bike to match that background will help you figure out how to fake the light.

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I agree, i didnt start off with the best of images and im playing with too many concepts at once, so im concentrating on the processing interface and how to do what with PS. Im finding layers hard to grasp but ill get there, trouble is i havnt used it enough to become familiar with the program and i think thats what i need to concentrate on.

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Mark sorry to take so long to reply out most of day. To create what is called a clipping mask in Photoshop is not very hard. Lets say you added a curves adjustment layer, now with that layer highlighted right click "Create clipping mask", now that adjustment only applies to the layer that it is clipped to (see little arrow).

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Thanks Allen. No problem im in no rush!

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To apply an adjustment layer to just one layer you need to organise the layers as groups ... it gets a bit complicated remembering which is affecting what but it is do-able :).

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Hi John, complicated is an understatement! :D

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the light i'm talking about on the bike is in the original image as well as in the composite. look on the bit on the front wheel well, it's got a highlight. the backside doesn't, it's even darker in shadow. ignoring the reflections in the metal parts, you have same thing for the black part in front of the seat, there's a highlight, and on the seat, and along the top of the back tire and the saddle bags. there is light and shadow all along the bike that doesn't match the composited background because it uses 2 very small piece of the background that don't have a lot of differentiation in light. in your original image you have subtle light and shadows throughout the background that make a big difference in helping your brain and eye to make sense of the image and the light, but now those details are missing in the composite. it does sound like nitpicking, but when you go from a flat background to a 3d background with highlights and shadows it makes the whole thing more realistic. especially if you can make the background light match the light on the subject.

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Thanks Beth im beginning to get it. but im more of an engineer than an artist....

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just a thought, but for your first composite you might be better off using a background from a completely different image. trying to get the bike to match that background will help you figure out how to fake the light.

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I agree, i didnt start off with the best of images and im playing with too many concepts at once, so im concentrating on the processing interface and how to do what with PS. Im finding layers hard to grasp but ill get there, trouble is i havnt used it enough to become familiar with the program and i think thats what i need to concentrate on.

Quote:

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Mark sorry to take so long to reply out most of day. To create what is called a clipping mask in Photoshop is not very hard. Lets say you added a curves adjustment layer, now with that layer highlighted right click "Create clipping mask", now that adjustment only applies to the layer that it is clipped to (see little arrow).

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Thanks Allen. No problem im in no rush!

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To apply an adjustment layer to just one layer you need to organise the layers as groups ... it gets a bit complicated remembering which is affecting what but it is do-able :).

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Hi John, complicated is an understatement! :D

I have never tried combining such 2 images, but from what I think is perspective should be same for both images. i.e. angle of viewing both the things should be same. Background image taken from top and bike taken sideways would be difficult to combine. While taking image of background, think of bike standing there and adjust your camera in a way such that bike is actually standing there.

Alan #27 I guess that is one of the differences between PSP and PS ... the clipping tool sounds like a neat thing :)

Mrinmoy #30 You are right and process photography is very exacting if you want to do it properly aka Hollywood regularly did it well and not so well ... In this case everything in the photo comes from one shot and the problem I think is perhaps unique to digital post processing that it appears that the bike was lifted as a separate layer from the photo and then recombined after adjustment with the ground which had had the shadow 'cleaned up' :). Making it quite unreal.

Which brings in the importance of shadows as with this 'bit of fun' where the pig was detached from his rocker, reversed, enlarged and had the shadow added. prompted by the tree shadow right bottom I remember.

http://i62.tinypic.com/33ym642.jpg

In my shot of the railcar the insert had to be enlarged and doing this by numbers [ percentages ] with PSP appeals to my way of thinking rather than how I remember PS does it ... how can I describe .... analog-slider system?