Wedding photography - the essentials

My, there are a lot of 'professionals' here

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professional

adjective
1.
relating to or belonging to a profession.
worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent, skilful, or assured.

2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
"a professional boxer"
antonyms: amateur

noun
noun: professional; plural noun: professionals
1.
a person engaged or qualified in a profession.
"professionals such as lawyers and surveyors"

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So, a photographer? Well traditionally not adjective 1 - that would be lawyer, doctor, architect etc. What about adjective 2? If it's your main income then yes. Otherwise no.

The noun is straightforward - only if it's an accepted profession.

I've met (in the real world) a lot of photographers. Most of them are amateurs, some good, some not so good as photographers. Some of them shoot a few weddings. They are amateurs. I've met some professional photographers, some good, some not so good. They are all professionals because it's their main income, although some of them may not behave/act/practise in the 'professional' manner that they should - like using a dual slot camera at a wedding. But they are still professionals because they earn their main income from it.

There is a long history both in Europe and America going back to the 19th century of amateurs in all sorts of fields, including photography. And many more in science and other fields. Some of them, because they had leisure did some truly amazing things, they just lacked the structure of academia or business, but quite often they were better at what they did, or innovated more than the 'professionals'.

I'm an amateur, although I have trouble spelling it. I don't want to be paid for what I do, although an hour ago a company called me and asked me to do some work this week, and I said yes.

Are we OK now with what a professional is? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Venser

It's not the backup camera suggestion of which I had objection, but the dual card slots. That eliminates nearly all cameras on the market.

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Again you are missing MY point, fine, shoot a wedding with just one card slot, I WON'T, risk too high

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Originally Posted by Venser

Yes, I did. The manner in which you present the list implies one should follow your itemized suggestions if they want to be "pro". Why else would you include the first and second paragraphs. If you take photos, you're a photographer. Period. We can debate the merit and quality of those photos, but the simple act of taking a photo does in fact make you a photographer. The second paragraph starts with how much experience you have, and thus you're trying to imply by authority. It's fallacious.

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A "Pro" earns a living from the work, that is the deff. look it up, has nothing to do with "taking photos.

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Originally Posted by JR1

A "Pro" earns a living from the work, that is the deff. look it up, has nothing to do with "taking photos.

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+1 see my post above

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Originally Posted by JR1

A "Pro" earns a living from the work, that is the deff. look it up, has nothing to do with "taking photos.

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Yes I said I have years of experience, so what, did I say PRO years, there are people here who have years of experience and cringe when they read about newbies doing weddings who have to ask what lens to use.

Again this is MY experience comment on your own and not what I do.

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Originally Posted by Venser

Never assume someone doesn't have something because of finances unless it's explicitly mentioned. It's fallacious and condescending.

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You do looooove your big words don't you, perhaps your comments are equally condescending to others

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Originally Posted by Venser

I'll add to the list since it's steering a little off track.

#10 - Make sure you're clients have a clear and precise definition of what it is you'll provide, written and signed in a contract. That includes everything; the number of images, formats, albums, ....

Most arguments are he said, she said in nature, where a terse but complete contract defuses most headaches a photographer could face afterwards.

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Which is why ALL of my shoots have a contract :p

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Originally Posted by ashcroft

+1 see my post above

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Totally, I have read your posts and 100% agree

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Wedding photography - the essentials

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> The Photographer should not to take 'hate' to the Wedding.

WW

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Originally Posted by JR1

Again this is MY experience comment on your own and not what I do.

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I just worry a new person comes along, reads your list, and thinks "****, I don't do XYZ" therefore I shouldn't shoot a wedding. The mannerism in which it's presented suggests that sentiment. That is my main objection to your initial post.

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Originally Posted by JR1

Being Devon/Cornwall you can only charge what people can afford, this is a poor area, in fact in the past I have even allowed people to pay me monthly NO interest to help out, If I still lived in Surrey I would start at £2k

:)

best wishes

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Yes i know John, i was being tongue in cheek. I had a plumbing and electrical business in cornwall and couldnt make it pay so i now work at sea... I was charging more per hour 15 years ago when i lived in the midlands than what i could charge in Cornwall now....

I hadn't read the other thread - as a friend of mine was a successful pro photographer I doubt if I ever would be even if I wanted to.

One thought that struck me about cards is that the preview recalls images from the card. I do know that if some one was paying me I would feel obligated to check them fairly often especially in circumstances where they couldn't be taken again.

The other thought was just how many times the card had been filled and formatted or even part filled and formatted. They have 2 life problems. One is how long data is retained. The other is how many times fresh data can be written to them. The problem with both is that the "improvements" , greater capacity etc hasn't help at all in both areas. The opposite in fact. Out of interest I just checked the spec on some industrial stuff that contains it and they guarantee >100 times and that it. Retention time is > 10 years.

John
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Originally Posted by Venser

I just worry a new person comes along, reads your list, and thinks "****, I don't do XYZ" therefore I shouldn't shoot a wedding. The mannerism in which it's presented suggests that sentiment. That is my main objection to your initial post.

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As I stated and you still refuse to accept this is MY experience, MY views on what I do, live with it.

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Originally Posted by ashcroft

My, there are a lot of 'professionals' here



So, a photographer? Well traditionally not adjective 1 - that would be lawyer, doctor, architect etc. What about adjective 2? If it's your main income then yes. Otherwise no.

The noun is straightforward - only if it's an accepted profession.

I've met (in the real world) a lot of photographers. Most of them are amateurs, some good, some not so good as photographers. Some of them shoot a few weddings. They are amateurs. I've met some professional photographers, some good, some not so good. They are all professionals because it's their main income, although some of them may not behave/act/practise in the 'professional' manner that they should - like using a dual slot camera at a wedding. But they are still professionals because they earn their main income from it.

There is a long history both in Europe and America going back to the 19th century of amateurs in all sorts of fields, including photography. And many more in science and other fields. Some of them, because they had leisure did some truly amazing things, they just lacked the structure of academia or business, but quite often they were better at what they did, or innovated more than the 'professionals'.

I'm an amateur, although I have trouble spelling it. I don't want to be paid for what I do, although an hour ago a company called me and asked me to do some work this week, and I said yes.

Are we OK now with what a professional is? :rolleyes:

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Im a two slotted amature too who also cant spell armeture ;)

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Originally Posted by Mark von Kanel

Im a two slotted amature too who also cant spell armeture ;)

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Spoken like a true Pro :) :) :)

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1. Two cameras minimum, BOTH with DUAL card slots
2. Spare batteries and charger
3. TOP quality best on the market cards formatted in camera before the shoot, FOUR per camera so that you can change them after each venue, so as to not put all your eggs in one basket
4. Laptop, to backup the card after shooting
5. Video camera, NO extra charge, you can sell it later to them, but at least IF the stills fail you have something else to offer FREE
6. Separate camera mounted pointing at the couple from a different angle, triggered by the main camera. BACKUP.
7. TWO flashguns with Stofens for indoors, Stofens are NOT for outdoor use so 2 Lumiquests for outdoors
8. INSURANCE, INSURANCE, INSURANCE. PUBLIC LIABILITY AND INDEMNITY.
9. Know year gear inside out and upside down.

Feel free to add to the list, most like me don't think what is needed it comes naturally so I will have missed things off.

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How about turning up with....

Hasselblad 500C + Carl Zeiss 80mm f/2.8 T*
Three rolls of Kodak VPS 160 (12 shots on each)
Tripod
Metz CT45
Lightmeter
Spare camera (likely a Yashica-Mat 124G) in the boot of the car
Insurance

:D

:D No Robin must have a large chipped digital back on the hasselblad probably tethered to a lap top so bust cards that have been erased to often don't cause problems. Another laptop synchronised over wifi might be a good idea too. Hard drives and laptops go down at times so it pays to be careful.

John
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"One thought that struck me about cards is that the preview recalls images from the card. I do know that if some one was paying me I would feel obligated to check them fairly often especially in circumstances where they couldn't be taken again."

John, the one time that I lost some images (out of the hundreds of thousands that I have shot) resulted from making my initial test of the new card by monitoring the images on the camera LCD. The card seemed to work and I monitored the images on the LCD while shooting and they were there. When I got home and tried to transfer the images to my computer, they would not transfer. I tried two different recovery disks with no luck as well a several card readers. Then I approached a "image recovery company" and the cost was far beyond the worth of the images. It was a model shoot with my photo club and I had no financial interest in the images. I had enough imagery from camera #2 to provide the models with the promised pictures.

The second defective card never caused me loss of images because I tested the card using my computer to down load the images I shot. The images would not transfer (BTW: this was done a year or two after the first defective card and I used a different computer and card reader). I returned the card to the dealer and got a refund.

However, I have noticed that some card readers built into computers seem to have a sloppy channel to slide the card into. This could, IMO, result in bent pins unless the user is super careful. I don't use the computer built-in card reader. Additionally, the card reader that I use is UDMA compatible which makes transfer quite a bit faster. I don't believe that I have seen a computer with a built-in UDMA capable card reader. However, there may be some...

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Originally Posted by Black Pearl

How about turning up with....
Three rolls of Kodak VPS 160 (12 shots on each)

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shouldn't that read:

Two rolls of VPS, (the third roll is the spare, the Wedding Album only fits two dozen photos)

WW

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Originally Posted by Black Pearl

How about turning up with....

Hasselblad 500C + Carl Zeiss 80mm f/2.8 T*
Three rolls of Kodak VPS 160 (12 shots on each)
Tripod
Metz CT45
Lightmeter
Spare camera (likely a Yashica-Mat 124G) in the boot of the car
Insurance

:D

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My setup was Pentax 645, Sunpak AZ4000 and Yasica 6x6 backup