Learning curve, studio shot, pocket watch

[JBW]

It was suggested by about everyone that the background was too much and that a shadow to the right of the pocket watch should go. I pp another shot and while I don't think it as good I am curious what others think so here it is: Pocket Watch take 2

[MatthewWilliams]

Nice watch and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a little lost in the background.. I don't know? But I would like to, I am here to learn and I have loved all of Brian's posts ... maybe i am missing something...

[JBW]

Nice watch and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a little lost in the background.. I don't know? But I would like to, I am here to learn and I have loved all of Brian's posts ... maybe i am missing something...

When I first thought the shot was complete Myra, She Who Must Be Obeyed, told me that their was too much background so I cropped it down. If I went any tighter I felt that the watch was overpowering. But feel free to try an alternative crop. And if you find one you like then post it here.
B.

[IzzieK]

Brian, I will try another background. It is just too soft for that one that the watch sinks in the fabric. The pillow you use on your other object might be better as it seems to be more sturdier...all you have to do is use your lighting to lessen the shadow...or shoot outside...

[JBW]

Brian, I will try another background. It is just too soft for that one that the watch sinks in the fabric. The pillow you use on your other object might be better as it seems to be more sturdier...all you have to do is use your lighting to lessen the shadow...or shoot outside...

I originally tried a harder background but I felt that the engraved watch needed a soft background to set it off. Which is not to say that something a little harder might not have worked.

[jcuknz]

I agree that the watch is losst in the background which is so dark and powerful though delightfully luxurious which sets off the watch in my mind. So how to reduce the power of the b/g. A simple lightening made it look dreadfully washed out and degraded so I tried my 'Fill Light/ Clarity" tool and it produced this which maybe and improvement.
A comment about your lighting which I assume is natural, perhaps sunlight. I think you need a fill light to lighten that dark shadow on the right of the watch ... there is nothing there to lighten in what I get from CiC so I couldn't do it in editing ...so my suggestion which is what I often do is o hold a piece of white paper, card, styrene to bounce some of the light into the shadow cast by the main light.
Anyway here is what I managed with fill light in editing ....


EDIT ... Just seen the second photo and you achieved much better lighting in the first and that shadow is more objectionable ... I know you can see into that shadow but the camera cannot and reducing the tonal range is a basic first step in using controlled light. And as the book says "watch the family of angles" to avoid reflections that you do not want, should not want with this subject

EDIT #2 Even though you are shooting with a bridge camera you still have limited DoF but something bugged me was the out of focus foreground which since I guess it is a lovely pullover you should have been able to arrange so it was at the same distance from the camera as the background and watch ... in the field we cannot do much but in the Studio everything is under our control Though I know you would not approve of my taking a pair of sissors for natural subjects outside but here it would simple be a matter of raising the watch and pullover on a book or something ... another approach is to organise the camera above the whole set-up rather than at an angle.... it is possible that a slight change of focus might have done the trick too.....

[IzzieK]

I originally tried a harder background but I felt that the engraved watch needed a soft background to set it off. Which is not to say that something a little harder might not have worked.

This is OK...I think you are standing this one off a wall or something...if not, move it a little away from the distracting broken part of the wall (bottom LHS)...then follow the suggestion of John above my post and use a typewriting paper to bounce the light on the right hand side...work on your shadow (as Janis told me) even before you touch your camera...I will always remember that teaching...because it works.

[JBW]

I agree that the watch is losst in the background which is so dark and powerful though delightfully luxurious which sets off the watch in my mind. So how to reduce the power of the b/g. A simple lightening made it look dreadfully washed out and degraded so I tried my 'Fill Light/ Clarity" tool and it produced this which maybe and improvement.
A comment about your lighting which I assume is natural, perhaps sunlight. I think you need a fill light to lighten that dark shadow on the right of the watch ... there is nothing there to lighten in what I get from CiC so I couldn't do it in editing ...so my suggestion which is what I often do is o hold a piece of white paper, card, styrene to bounce some of the light into the shadow cast by the main light.
Anyway here is what I managed with fill light in editing ....


EDIT ... Just seen the second photo and you achieved much better lighting in the first and that shadow is more objectionable ... I know you can see into that shadow but the camera cannot and reducing the tonal range is a basic first step in using controlled light. And as the book says "watch the family of angles" to avoid reflections that you do not want, should not want with this subject

EDIT #2 Even though you are shooting with a bridge camera you still have limited DoF but something bugged me was the out of focus foreground which since I guess it is a lovely pullover you should have been able to arrange so it was at the same distance from the camera as the background and watch ... in the field we cannot do much but in the Studio everything is under our control Though I know you would not approve of my taking a pair of sissors for natural subjects outside but here it would simple be a matter of raising the watch and pullover on a book or something ... another approach is to organise the camera above the whole set-up rather than at an angle.... it is possible that a slight change of focus might have done the trick too.....

Okay perhaps I should have done this at the start?
Lighting comes from 2 seperate lights. One above and one to the left.
the 'pullover' is in reality an old bath towel.
I left in the dark shadow on the right because to my eye it enhances the golden glow of the watch case.

The trouble I see with your edit is that while the bg is less powerful so is the watch. I can see no way to take power away from the bg without taking it away from the watch too. An overall softer shot is certainly possible but I like the power of this shot.

That being said everyone seems to agree that the background needs work. So I will give it another try.

[JBW]

This is OK...I think you are standing this one off a wall or something...if not, move it a little away from the distracting broken part of the wall (bottom LHS)...then follow the suggestion of John above my post and use a typewriting paper to bounce the light on the right hand side...work on your shadow (as Janis told me) even before you touch your camera...I will always remember that teaching...because it works.

You really [prefer the brown bg? Well i still hace the watch and i shall go play with the bg.

[Shadowman]

I like the first but the patterns of object and background are very similar and I think that is what creates the feeling that subject is lost.

[JBW]

I like the first but the patterns of object and background are very similar and I think that is what creates the feeling that subject is lost.

Here I begin to clutch at straws.... So far everyone has felt that the background overpowers the foreground. And when looked at as fg and bg there is truth in that belief.

But what happens if you see it as either one or three. The towel is fore, mid and rear. The watch is nestled in a way that makes it the mid ground.

I honestly see it as a hard watch cuddled into a soft bed, womb, cradle?

Does it make a difference to anyone to see the towel as the dominant structure?

I am not saying 'why can't you see it my way'
I am saying 'is it possible to see it in a different way' and if it is ~ does it change the critiques?
B.

[TonyW]

I think I prefer the original version. There is a sort of rich depth to the watch that is lost when it goes lighter. The background looks good to me too.

I get the impression that you have a similar aesthetic here as in your nature shots.

I wondered whether it would be better with all the background equally well focused.

[chauncey]

Brian, when you have subjects with fine detail in them, you want that detail to be tack sharp...
these are not as tacky as I would be happy with.

[JBW]

I think I prefer the original version. There is a sort of rich depth to the watch that is lost when it goes lighter. The background looks good to me too.

I get the impression that you have a similar aesthetic here as in your nature shots.

I wondered whether it would be better with all the background equally well focused.

Yup I won't deny it my aesthetics haven't changed only the subject matter. I was about as far back as I could go for DOF. I agree i prefer the first version over both the one with the brown background and the one I just posted back at the start.

[JBW]

Brian, when you have subjects with fine detail in them, you want that detail to be tack sharp...
these are not as tacky as I would be happy with.

Chauncey 9 out of 10 times I would agree that this shot is not quite in focus. But this was an old watch and all I did was give it a light dusting. There really isn't anything tack sharp exept for the dust and i would have had to go super-macro to get that.

[Shadowman]

Here I begin to clutch at straws.... So far everyone has felt that the background overpowers the foreground. And when looked at as fg and bg there is truth in that belief.

But what happens if you see it as either one or three. The towel is fore, mid and rear. The watch is nestled in a way that makes it the mid ground.

I honestly see it as a hard watch cuddled into a soft bed, womb, cradle?

Does it make a difference to anyone to see the towel as the dominant structure?

I am not saying 'why can't you see it my way'
I am saying 'is it possible to see it in a different way' and if it is ~ does it change the critiques?
B.

You could easily choose either the towel or the watch as the main subject, I'd either present the image without a title or perhaps present the image as a display of textures, patterns, or shapes.

[Mike Buckley]

The second one is by far the nicest for me. Even so, I think you'll prefer a background that is relatively plain; the detail in the green background competes with the detail in the metal. As an example, if you want to stick with a fabric background, felt, satin or a similar fabric with just one tone would work well.

The biggest issue I have with the second watch is that the glare on the glass prevents us from seeing the detail in that area. Photographing a subject that has both glass and shiny metal is one of the most difficult tasks. If you want to get serious about shooting such difficult subjects, I highly recommend Light: Science & Magic.

[JBW]

The second one is by far the nicest for me. Even so, I think you'll prefer a background that is relatively plain; the detail in the green background competes with the detail in the metal. As an example, if you want to stick with a fabric background, felt, satin or a similar fabric with just one tone would work well.

The biggest issue I have with the second watch is that the glare on the glass prevents us from seeing the detail in that area. Photographing a subject that has both glass and shiny metal is one of the most difficult tasks. If you want to get serious about shooting such difficult subjects, I highly recommend Light: Science & Magic.

I doubt that I will find it where we are in the Philippines and we are leary of purchasing online.

[Loose Canon]

Brian if you are going to shoot something cradled in a colored BG, you can pretty much count on picking up that color as a color cast on the subject. I think that may have happened here. The watch looks a little green from where I’m sitting.

[JBW]

Brian if you are going to shoot something cradled in a colored BG, you can pretty much count on picking up that color as a color cast on the subject. I think that may have happened here. The watch looks a little green from where I’m sitting.

it could just be my tired eyes but neither of my monitors shows a green tint.But then again all things considered a little greenish reflection is to be expected?