Alternative inks

[Antonio Correia]

Does anyone know these alternative inks for Epson printers ?
I need to make pring with lower price than until now. Epson ink is original yes, but rather expensive.
Can this ink be a correct change ?
Any experience in this matter ?
I am using Epson R3000.
The cartridges for this printer in USA are not the same used in Europe but it is not important regarding this subject.

Thank you.

[Shadowman]

Alan was using this brand.

Epson 2880 - major problem - Streaking after major cleaning

[Mark von Kanel]

Antonio, stick to permajet or lyson, marrutt do lyson inks permaject do their own brand, i and others on here use permajet, whilst some other on here use lyson,

http://www.permajet.com/

http://www.marrutt.com/

[James G]

Antonio, can't comment on the inks you mention, I've never come across them.
However I agree with Mark regarding Marrut.

I've been using Lyson inks (Marrutt supplied), in my Epson R3000 for a couple of years and have had no problems.

I have also profiled my papers for use with Lyson inks. There is almost no difference in performance that I can detect when compared with OEM profiles. In fact I'd argue that I get slightly better tonal range from Lyson.

Additionally, Marrutt provide excellent support and help with printer maintenance.
James

[Antonio Correia]

John, Mark and James !
Thank you so much for the help provided. All of you dropped of bit of important information. Thank you !

I am a simple concerned, demanding and dedicated amateur wishing to leave a couple of fine prints for my children while having some pleasure photographing, printing and exposing if the opportunity arrises.

I took some time to give you guys an answer because I have been looking at the suppliers of ink that Mark pointed to.

Marrutt confused me a bit because they produce two inks, Lyson the most expensive and the another the Marrutt Pro.

Their system is very clever indeed. I like that !

Most probably I will get Lyson inks and system. Or Marrutts' ??? Any tip on this ?

Thank you again guys !!!!
(Have to come here more often)

[JR1]

I don't use those inks, but I have never ever in 20+ years used canon/epson ink except whatr came with the printer, I also have a new Canon LBP7210Cdn laser and use 3rd party ink

To this day I have never had a problem

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi Antonio,

Permajet i can recommend, (they also do free profiles for anyone using their inks or papers which can be a good saving to be had) Lyson others on here will recommend, Marrutts own? gut instinct would be that they should be ok but id be careful unless you can find someone who uses them.

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you again.
I am trying to find a dealer in Europe - not in England - to compare the price.
The British Pound is very high at the moment...

[Mark von Kanel]

These people do permajet in italy

http://www.labitalia.it/

Heres the link for the rest of the world, look down the bottom for the EU suppliers couldnt find ant in portugal.

http://www.permajet.com/Where_to_Buy

couldnt see any link on the marrutt site for world ditributors but the must have them.

Found it!! its on the Nazdar sit, the people who make the ink.

http://www.nazdar.com/distribution.asp

[James G]

Antonio, glad I/we are of help

As I said in my previous post, I opted for Lyson inks from Marrutt. The reason for opting thus, rather than the Marrutt inkset was as a result of a conversation with another (ex)CiCs member who prints 'professionally'.

He was using the Lyson inkset for commercial print work for some time and had no hesitation in recommending it. Also he had at some point been in direct contact with Lyson reps and discovered that Lyson are suppliers of ink to Epson!

Since the Lyson inks are approximately 20% of the cost of Epson inks, and I do not 'bulk' print, I considered I was getting a sufficiently good saving opting for the manufacturer who also supplies Epson, rather than choosing the lower priced Marrutt inkset, about which I had much less 'usage' information.

It was a decision, which I have no reason to regret. I have noted though that the Lyson Inkset has rarely been subject to price offers, whereas the Marrutt set has regularly been on offer over the last year.

[Mark von Kanel]

Thats interesting info James, was the rep saying that epson ultrachrome are actually Lyson ink re branded then? ill have to mail Colin about this!!

[James G]

Mark,
it was Colin I was in contact with, and I understand that for fairly obvious commercial reasons, the rep would not say that the inks were identical in formulation, but that they only really had to be sufficiently different to be a 'legally' different product.

Beyond that of course any conclusion could only be speculation... but that combined with Colin's confidence in the inkset decided me to opt for Lyson.


The thread was entitled Which Printer?? March 20 2013

I went through exactly that when I contemplated changing from Epson to Lyson ink. In the end I said to the Lyson guy "hey - all politics aside, here's what I've heard - is there any truth to it". All he said in reply was "well, they're made in exactly the same way". So I made the change and hyper-sensitively watched out for the first sign of trouble, but it never came. Yes - I do get the occasional blocked jet (which a power-clean fixes), but I used to get the same with Epson ink (gut feeling is that I got slightly more clogging with Epson ink, but that's just a subjective opinion). I know I get a slightly better gamut - and I know my credit card bill from the last 4 from Marrutt in England - inc postage to NZ - was $303.05 - and a bill from the NZ supplier for 1 genuine Epson cart when I had a damaged Lyson one was $290.95.

So cheaper and better - go figure

[Antonio Correia]

You guys are super !
How can I thank you, besides writing over and over... thank you ?!

I do believe the "story" about the origine of the inks...

Let me introduce into this fruitful discussion, a simple but important point:
Have you noticed how Marrutt's web page is more friendly and pleasant than PermaJet's ?
Have you noticed how the tutorials are far easier in Marrutt's ? And the navigation, the structure of the site itself !...

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi Antonio.

Im actually looking at converting a second printer now, and from what i can see if you are carful about how you buy the ink, Marrutt /lyson works out to be cheaper.... its interesting that if you buy the empty cartridge set and the refill ink set it works out cheaper than the equivalent kit! Ive mailed them about ink shelf life and asked why the kit is more expensive than the parts bought separately.

Ill keep you informed....

Regarding the sites, Marrutt is i think a much larger concern than permajet, but being small has its advantages!! dont let the sit convince you, look carfully at the costs and pick the one that works out best for your work flow.

[James G]

Antonio, I have been very impressed with the Marrutt site... I also found that they were more than happy to help with advice on maintenance, particularly regards cleaning my R3000, going as far as posting videos of cleaning techniques etc.

If I'd followed the Epson advice I'd have paid £150+shipping cost, for a job I did for myself in about 1 hour, after a little preparation, watching one of the Marrutt videos!

Mark, I too found it is cheaper to buy the complete set including the refillable cartridges, rather than the individual inks.

It proved useful because I forgot once to check how much ink was still in the carts, (by taking them out, rather than relying on the print monitor).Two had gone to about 10% fill. As a result they could not be reset... Marrutt do say that you should not let them get below 30%. Having spares available to use saved a lot of time.

[Antonio Correia]

Well guys... what can I say but... thank you !

[Mark von Kanel]

Mark, I too found it is cheaper to buy the complete set including the refillable cartridges, rather than the individual inks.

James i think your misunderstanding. if you buy a 500ml/colour conversion kit from marrutt it costs £950, if you buy a set of inks and a set of empty cartridges it cost £817 thats over £200 saved, ok you dont get a plastic box to put it all in, you might have to get your own syringes and download the generic profiles, but thats hardly worth £200!!

Ive mailed Marutt to ask them why this is the case.

So Antonio, make sure you do the math! ive delt with both companies and they both offer good service and backup and the products are both good as well. Permajet back up thier claims about their products being of similar quality of Epson inks with certified independent lab results (results on their web site)

Personally im not prepared to reccomend either company over the other as i think they are both good, pick the one that offers you best value for money.

[Mark von Kanel]

Mark,
it was Colin I was in contact with, and I understand that for fairly obvious commercial reasons, the rep would not say that the inks were identical in formulation, but that they only really had to be sufficiently different to be a 'legally' different product.

Beyond that of course any conclusion could only be speculation... but that combined with Colin's confidence in the inkset decided me to opt for Lyson.


The thread was entitled Which Printer?? March 20 2013

Hi James,

Yes im aware or the thread, in fact i was one of the contributes as you can see from the clip below may advice then was the same as it is now... both are good companies

I use a continuous ink system on a little canon printer that i have, it halves the ink costs and i use lyson inks which are great, you can get good advice on theses systems from both Marrutt who are in sussex and the sell Lyson inks http://www.marrutt.com/

or again from Permajet http://www.permajet.com/Home who are located in stratford who sell an ultra chrome equivalent which i use in my Epson and are not distinguishable from the Epson ones Both of these companies are reputable and helpful and have bee in the business for a long time.

I have also used city ink express and cant recommend them any more.

hope that helps

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi Antonio.

As i said i emailed marrutt about the lyson inks, i asked them about shelf life and the reason for the price difference between kits and buying the separate items see my mail below:

>> Hi Im considering changing from epson ink to Lyson. can you please
>> answer the following questions?
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the ink have a shelf life once opened, if so how long?
>>
>> i noticed that if i buy 9 x 500ml of ink set @ £582 + the replacement
>> empty cartridge pack @ £135 i will save over £200 on the conversion
>> kit price of £950, what am i getting for my £200 apart from a plastic box?
>>
>>
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark von Kanel

Here was Marrutts answer, which i found surprising! It would seem that marrutt think that their cheaper inks are more comparable to Epson inks than the lyson ones....

For the Epson 3880, the best ink is the Marrutt Pro Photo ink. This is a more recent inkset than the Lyson ink and is a closer match to the genuine Epson http://www.marrutt.com/epson-3880-ot...pson-3880.html

The ink has a shelf life of 2 years, once opened we recommend you use it within 1 year

Although the prices for the Marrutt Pro Photo ink are much less than the Lyson ink, the Marrutt Ink is as good in terms of both colour accuracy and longevity

Please let me know what you think

best wishes

Paul Read, www.marrutt.com

Now which do you choose????

[James G]

i think your misunderstanding. if you buy a 500ml/colour conversion kit from marrutt it costs £950, if you buy a set of inks and a set of empty cartridges it cost £817 thats over £200 saved, ok you dont get a plastic box to put it all in, you might have to get your own syringes and download the generic profiles, but thats hardly worth £200!!

Mark, I take your point, but you are referring to the continuous ink system deal. I use the refillable cartridges option since I don't do enough printing as a 'hobbyist' to justify a continuous rig.

For my R3000, 9xcartridges and a full set of 9x125ml inks cost £234. Buying a replacement set of 9x125 ml inks only is £242 and buying a new set of carts is £85!

For the Epson 3880, the best ink is the Marrutt Pro Photo ink. This is a more recent inkset than the Lyson ink and is a closer match to the genuine Epson http://www.marrutt.com/epson-3880-ot...pson-3880.html

I suppose if I was switching now, and had the information I now have, the Marrutt inks would be my choice... Back in 2013 the best 'received wisdom' suggested Lyson, and in fairness I have been happy with the current inkset.