Wintertime pic

[skitterbug]

I decided to venture out during the very cold weather to try and capture some of the beautiful scenes. This is one that I especially like. Comments about ways to improve are always welcome!
(There's a lot to learn about uploading pics! I used Dave Humphries' guide to make it this far! Thanks, Dave.)

[IzzieK]

I can feel the cold here, Sandy...brrrr.......as I said to Manfred in another post, I am not going out until the weather gets to be the same as my age (according to Snoopy)...that aside it is a nice image. I do not know what to say really...perhaps clone out the electric wire and pole at the upper right hand side of the frame?

[Geoff F]

Everything was wrong with this scene; shooting into the light and with a considerable brightness range. So the result has come out exceptionally well.

[Mike Buckley]

Wonderful image in a tough situation for determining the ideal exposure!

Consider cropping on the right to eliminate the building and then cloning to remove the pole and electrical wires. If you decide to include the building, the pole and wires provide additional information that goes very well with the building.

[Manfred M]

It's a tough shot to get right, Sandy. All that snow ends up fooling your camera's light meter and that means the image is darker than it should be. When I shoot in snowy landscapes, I have a good look after my first test shot and use my exposure compensation controls to correct; I usually start at +1 and fine tune from there.

The other issue that is tough to deal with in snow is that the white really reflects the sky well, so shadows tend to take on a blue tone from that clear blue sky above.

Both of these issues can be seen in this shot. Play with the exposure compensation to see how that works out. The blue shadows, are just part of winter lighting and take a lot of PP work to correct, if you want to go there.

[Mike Buckley]

I almost always agree with Manfred but not this time. The histogram indicates that the exposure or at least the final outcome is fine. The mood indicates that the post-processing is fine. The post-processing could have gone in other ways such as toward whiter snow and warmer shadows but this look will work so well for so many, certainly me.

[skitterbug]

Thank you! I knew that I was taking a chance in the direction I chose but I was trying to get the light to bounce through the ice crystals on the first tree. The sun was just starting to shift out from behind the puffy clouds. Timing is everything, isn't it.... I wanted to take the pic a split second sooner but I hadn't quit composed the shot the way I wanted it quickly enough!

[skitterbug]

I haven't mastered cloning yet since I manage to muddle my pics when I've tried. They don't look natural to me after my attempts. Indeed yes - it was a brrrrr kind of morning! Thanks for your comments!

[skitterbug]

I appreciate your suggestions! The sky was a brilliant blue that morning! It was beautiful!
Taking snow pictures are challenging to me. I assess my camera's settings and can never decide what I should choose. I hadn't through about using the exposure compensation controls and will give it a go when I try try and try again! LOL

[Manfred M]

Mike - I can tell you don't shoot a lot of snow. The bulk of the content is snow (very light tones), so the histogram should be biased to way the right, with a bit of dark showing the shadow detail and relatively little in the way of mid-tones. The sun through the branches should be showing as blown out. The sun is still quite high in the sky, so I would expect the scene to be quite bright. The metadata says the shot was taken at 10:30 in the morning, so the scene should be super bright,

Typical histogram and properly exposed snow scene I would expect to look like this:



(This was my first test shot were I was looking at the level of exposure compensation - I had dialed in 1/3 stop, which was not nearly enough). I compensated here in post.


Sandy's image and histogram look like this:



The shot looks over one stop underexposed to me. The bias is towards the dark tones, and other than the back-lit parts of the trees, there aren't too many dark areas in the image.

[DanK]

Sandy,

Actually, it's fairly easy to get rid of the blue cast on the snow. I don't know if you allow edits of the images you post, and if not, I will take this down, but here is an extremely fast edit just to illustrate the point:



I just created a curves adjustment layer in photoshop, chose the middle eyedropper, and clicked on two areas just to the left of the right-hand shadow, guessing that these might be areas to make neutral. The first looked off. The second is this one, which isn't perfect, but a lot closer to the 'right' white balance.

I agree with Manfred that it is underexposed, but that too is easy to fix, within limits. This next simply uses another curves adjustment to brighten it up and add a bit of contrast. Again, not ideal, but just to illustrate.



Dan

[Geoff F]

Regarding cloning problems. Is your brush a little too hard or your opacity too high. It is often best to gradually build up to the desired result in several stages. And sometimes you need to work from the edges towards the centre instead of just one side.

There are quite a few options here with clone or heal brushes, depending on your software, and it does take a bit of expertise and experience before everything looks natural. Sometimes, when I have to get close to difficult edges, I will create a selection around areas which need to be included or excluded from the cloning area.

[skitterbug]

"The post-processing could have gone in other ways such as toward whiter snow and warmer shadows but this look will work so well for so many, certainly me."

Thank you Mike.

I took this into Adobe 6 to resize and sharpen the pic according to Dave Humphries instructions so I could post it here. I haven't done much post-processing work other than to crop, etc. Yep, newbie all the way! I've been reading the Cambridge site's tutorials, but there's a lot to learn! And worse, I really dislike reading manuals. So it is a slow process for me.

How do you examine a posted photo for the information about how the pic was taken, histogram info and the like? Does the pic have to be downloaded to be able to see the specs about it? How someone takes his/her pics - settings used - would be helpful in the learning process.

Oh oooo, it is snowing again! Maybe I'll get a chance to give snow pics another try!

[Mike Buckley]

Manfred,

I understand that Sandy's photo is underexposed when thinking of so-called proper exposure. However, using such an exposure will create a mood that would be less appealing to me than the mood in her photo. Remember that there is no proper exposure; there is only wanted exposure.

Considering that Sandy considers herself a newbie, the most important thing is that she learns to determine the look she wants and then to determine how to make that look. If this isn't the look she wants or if she understandably doesn't know the look she wants, I agree with you that she should use a different exposure and/or make adjustments during post-processing at least so she can see her reasonable alternatives.

Sandy,

I always download the image to see the EXIF data, histogram, etc. Some browsers have plug-ins that allow you to see that information without having to download the image. Sorry, but I don't know anything more about the plug-ins.

[skitterbug]

Regarding cloning problems. Is your brush a little too hard or your opacity too high. It is often best to gradually build up to the desired result in several stages. And sometimes you need to work from the edges towards the centre instead of just one side.

There are quite a few options here with clone or heal brushes, depending on your software, and it does take a bit of expertise and experience before everything looks natural. Sometimes, when I have to get close to difficult edges, I will create a selection around areas which need to be included or excluded from the cloning area.

I just realized that my previous posts don't show the quoted material I was trying to answer to. I hope everyone can figure out who I was replying to? Sorry for any confusion!

Anyway, one thing (out of many) that I really must learn about is how to use my editing app. I have made it a practice to take my pics in RAW format because that seems to be the best way to capture the image for corrections afterward, if one wants to do any. It all comes down to practice and experimentation and old fashioned trial and error. Toss in hard work and maybe I'll get it right!

[skitterbug]

Sandy,

I always download the image to see the EXIF data, histogram, etc. Some browsers have plug-ins that allow you to see that information without having to download the image. Sorry, but I don't know anything more about the plug-ins.

Hummm - I like both Safari and Firefox for browsing purposes. I'll check to see if they offer anything for image data viewing! Thank you for the explanation!

[Mike Buckley]

I like both Safari and Firefox for browsing purposes.

You might find that one displays the colors more accurately than the other. I have never tested Safari but I have tested Firefox and it displays photos very much the same as my other software. Some browsers are notorious for displaying colors really poorly.

[Shadowman]

Nice capture.

[skitterbug]

Sandy,

Actually, it's fairly easy to get rid of the blue cast on the snow. I don't know if you allow edits of the images you post, and if not, I will take this down, but here is an extremely fast edit just to illustrate the point:



I just created a curves adjustment layer in photoshop, chose the middle eyedropper, and clicked on two areas just to the left of the right-hand shadow, guessing that these might be areas to make neutral. The first looked off. The second is this one, which isn't perfect, but a lot closer to the 'right' white balance.

I agree with Manfred that it is underexposed, but that too is easy to fix, within limits. This next simply uses another curves adjustment to brighten it up and add a bit of contrast. Again, not ideal, but just to illustrate.



Dan

I don't mind anyone editing my pics, especially to illustrate the idea that one is trying to explain - show and tell! <grin>
White balance seems to be the area I've run into time and time again. It would be nice if my camera had a selection for "snow scenes" in the manual sections. I am trying to depart from the "automatic settings" so I can develop my own style of picture captures. Manfred's suggestion about exposure compensation controls for snow scenes is one setting I plan on trying out next chance I get!
Thank you for explaining what you did to accomplish your corrections to my pic!

[DanK]

I don't mind anyone editing my pics, especially to illustrate the idea that one is trying to explain - show and tell! <grin>
White balance seems to be the area I've run into time and time again. It would be nice if my camera had a selection for "snow scenes" in the manual sections. I am trying to depart from the "automatic settings" so I can develop my own style of picture captures. Manfred's suggestion about exposure compensation controls for snow scenes is one setting I plan on trying out next chance I get!
Thank you for explaining what you did to accomplish your corrections to my pic!

You're welcome.

Here's my suggestion about white balance: you can't always rely on getting it right in camera. It's easy to get it right under many conditions, but very hard under some others. Any postprocessing software should give you options for setting white balance. In a case like this, you can simply try warming it, or you can do as I did and find some areas that you think should be rendered as a neutral gray or white. Once you have a little more experience with postprocessing, folks can give you concrete suggestions for dealing with this.