Automate Shooting With Sony A7R for Architectural HDR Photography

[acroreef]

Dear Folks,

I do real estate and architectural photography, using ambient light. I have a Sony A7R using a 16-35 lens, and usually shoot at approximately 24mm. My normal methodology is to measure for a proper exposure for both the highlights and shadows. (Aperture and ISO remain constant, and camera is set to manual). I next start at the proper exposure for the highlights and, in 1EV increments, I move the shutter speed wheel until I reach the proper exposure for shadows. I take as many shots as required for each scene. (Some scenes could require 9 shots, others one or two).

My question: Does any "gadget" exist such that I could achieve this without touching the camera shutter speed wheel? For example, set the shutter speed "start" and "finish." Then remotely tell the camera to shoot between the two values?

When one shoots brackets without knowing the exact values required for proper exposure, oftentimes the result are images over/under exposed or not enough range for the scene.

CamRanger, Promote Control, and Trigger Trap do not work with the Sony A7R. So is there any "hack" or other method to make this work?

Thank you in advance for your patience reading this post and for your response.

Dave

[Polar01]

I believe you are over doing it, 9 shots @1 EV increments, 3 shots should give you all the detail that you need provided that you shoot at 2EV increments. I would suggest that you find the middle shot, then turn of bracketing 3 shots 2EV increments, shoot scene. Yes there is a gadget that exist to do this it is called your manual, I do not own a Sony A7R, but looking at the specs it tells me "Exposure Bracketing : With 3 frames in 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV, 2/3 EV, 1.0 EV, 2.0 EV or 3.0 EV increments. With 5 frames in 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 2/3 EV increments" from the Sony spec sheet for that camera. I would suggest that you read your manual.

Cheers: Allan

[rpcrowe]

I don't know about the Sony A7R but all Canon DSLR and selected Nikon DSLR cameras are capable of auto exposure bracketing. The Canons and selected Nikons, when shot in burst mode, will shoot a series of bracketed exposures and then stop shooting until the next time the shutter is tripped.

My Canon 7D (and most other Canon DSLR cameras) can do three shot groupings of auto exposure bracketed images. The bracketing amount can be as little as 1/3 stop or as great as several stops.

I usually select one-stop as my bracketing increment. A three shot grouping should be enough for your needs. However some Nikons and some Canon cameras can bracket in five shot groups.

[acroreef]

Polar)01,

I assume you were trying to be helpful and didn't read my post carefully enough. And I have read my manual thoroughly.

When I have a scene (room) with large bright windows and dark furniture, bracketing 3 exposures at 2 EV just doesn't cut it because the dynamic range is larger than the three bracketed image results. And of course, if I did that with a room with a very low dynamic range, I would be getting overexposed and underexposed images that are not required. That is why I start with my shutter speed set to properly expose for the window and then continue in 1 EV or 1.5 EV increments until the shadows are properly exposed. 2EV will work but testing has shown that 1EV works a bit better for Lightroom Enfuse processing. And by the way, I do most everything in manual mode. Of course, some rooms only require 1 or two shots. I check my histogram with every shot.

I'm just looking for a more scientific/hands free way to make this work as I go from room to room and deal with each specific dynamic range.

Thank you.

Dave

[rpcrowe]

I would expect that another way to accomplish your goal would be to boost the interior light by using flash or flashes...

[Polar01]

Yes Dave I did read you post carefully. You state that 2EV is not enough yet your camera will do 3 shots at 3EV each side of your chosen middle. You say that you use LR, however that only still gives you +/-5 EV as a tiff. When I do HDR work I produce a 32bit tiff, then reopen that 32 bit tiff in ACR and now I have a +/- 10EV range so I get more out of my image in raw The trick is to make the image not look like a HDR image (hightone mapped image that most people associate with HDR). I do not know if you know this however if you histogram shows that you have blown the highlights that is for a jpeg you still have at least 1 to 1.3 stops more room when you are in LR or CC.

Cheers: Allan

[yauman]

Dear Folks,

(Some scenes could require 9 shots, others one or two).

When one shoots brackets without knowing the exact values required for proper exposure, oftentimes the result are images over/under exposed or not enough range for the scene.


CamRanger, Promote Control, and Trigger Trap do not work with the Sony A7R. So is there any "hack" or other method to make this work?

Thank you in advance for your patience reading this post and for your response.

Dave

Whooaa.. wait something is not right here. I do real estate photography for multi-million $ homes in California and I seldom have to do more than 3 shots. 90% of the time, I do 3 shots - +1ev, 0ev, -1 ev. Occasionally, I have to do 5. The whole point of using bracketed shots and HDR is you DON'T have to care about what is over and what is under. You set your 0ev shot to be what the light meter reads and then you do one over and one under and voila.. that's it.
Here are architecture HDR shots - all done with 3 shot bracketed HDR (that don't look like HDR!)

Here's my brother-in-laws work with 2-shot HDR (using Enfuse plug-in for Lightroom). I don't know that much about the Sony a7r for bracketing or HDR work, but if you have to do more than 5 shots, there's definitely something wrong with the setup.

[John666]

Hi Dave,

I'm also shooting real estate, and use Lightroom Enfuse to quickly create 40-50 HDRs from a day's shoot. I usually end up using 3-7 shots (1EV steps), but in some cases I need up to 15! So I know where you're coming from.

To your question: I just purchased the A7RII, hence are looking for a similar product/technique. Although I now got 9 steps bracketing, sometimes I will need to extend that a bit.

Here's what I did with my Canon 5D MkII to speed up the shooting process (for 1EV steps):

1. Change EV steps in settings to 0.5 instead of 0.3.
2. If possible, change bracketing order from 0-+ to -0+
3. Now change the shutter speed to faster, to ensure you get all highlights in your shot (using histogram, peaking, etc.)
4. Take 3 bracketing shots. -1, 0, +1
5. Change shutter speed 6 clicks
6. Take 3 new bracketing shots. -1, 0, +1
7. Change shutter speed 6 clicks
8. Take 3 new bracketing shots...
...continue until your shadows are completely covered.

I've tried this on Sony a6000 as well, and this process makes it fairly easy to shoot 9-12-15 exposures pretty fast. The only drawback is you have to touch the camera every 3 shots. But I still found it the best workflow if you haven't got a Promote Control device or similar.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
John

[John666]

Whooaa.. wait something is not right here. I do real estate photography for multi-million $ homes in California and I seldom have to do more than 3 shots. 90% of the time, I do 3 shots - +1ev, 0ev, -1 ev. Occasionally, I have to do 5. The whole point of using bracketed shots and HDR is you DON'T have to care about what is over and what is under. You set your 0ev shot to be what the light meter reads and then you do one over and one under and voila.. that's it.
Here are architecture HDR shots - all done with 3 shot bracketed HDR (that don't look like HDR!)

Here's my brother-in-laws work with 2-shot HDR (using Enfuse plug-in for Lightroom). I don't know that much about the Sony a7r for bracketing or HDR work, but if you have to do more than 5 shots, there's definitely something wrong with the setup.

Not very high dynamic range in your shots. A dark room with a black sofa in the corner, and the sun is shining on the clouds outside the window - try to cover that in 3 shots without blowing out the cloud's highligts, while still seeing the dirt under the sofa

[george013]

What's wrong with doing a measurement for the high lights and one for the low lights.Then you know the range to cover. Further divide it over so many shots of a certain EV-change. And you have theoretical a marge of half a histogram on the high level and half a histogram on the low level.

George

ps.
I just wondered how this thread could have 2437 views and 9 posts. It started in 2015.

[John666]

What's wrong with doing a measurement for the high lights and one for the low lights.Then you know the range to cover. Further divide it over so many shots of a certain EV-change. And you have theoretical a marge of half a histogram on the high level and half a histogram on the low level.

George

ps.
I just wondered how this thread could have 2437 views and 9 posts. It started in 2015.

Well, if you shoot a 3 exposure HDR with 3EV stops between each shot, the result will be worse than if you shoot 9 exposures with 1EV stop between shots. The more data the HDR software gets, the better result it produces. I never got good results with more than 1EV between shots.

[Inkanyezi]

Not very high dynamic range in your shots. A dark room with a black sofa in the corner, and the sun is shining on the clouds outside the window - try to cover that in 3 shots without blowing out the cloud's highligts, while still seeing the dirt under the sofa

Notwithstanding nobody would like to see the dust bunnies under the sofa, there's something odd going on here. You just stated:

I usually end up using 3-7 shots (1EV steps), but in some cases I need up to 15! So I know where you're coming from.

I do not doubt the last sentence there, but there is one thing that really puzzles me. You never need more than two exposures to cover any dynamic range. Why on Earth would anyone want to bog the computer down with merging fifteen images for HDR? To me, it seems very inefficient.

Yes, I know that using the entire dynamic range of the chip can make some parts of the image a bit noisy, so if that is to be avoided, three shots will do. However, it cannot be done by the camera's bracketing, as you will need larger steps, say four or five EV. With a modern camera and two images, five EV apart, you cover a DR of 18 stops. With three images, four EV apart, you cover 21 stops. There's where you're approaching the maximum possible rendition of the optical system. There is, afaik, no lens that can cover a full 23 stops dynamic range. In the presence of so much light, the darker shadows will be corrupted by flare. So you won't see the dust bunnies.

I recommend reading Ansel Adams' book The Negative, to get a grip of light measuring. In he method of taking a highlight reading or a shadow reading, you have to cater for the dynamic range of your medium, and the calibration of the light meter. For example, If I take a spot reading of the bright sunlit edge of a cloud, that is not where to set the exposure for the highlight shot, but I have to adjust for the zone where to put that highlight, which is three EV brighter than what the meter is calibrated for. So with in camera jpeg, I should set exposure for three EV brighter, in order to get it plain white, otherwise it would be "medium grey", fall in zone five to six. Now instead shooting RAW, there's more headroom, so maybe four EV. With bright clouds outside the window, and if you really want them well rendered, the inside scene will probably need something like five to seven EV more exposure. With a modern sensor, that is absolutely no problem. A second shot, and you're there.

Then I wonder whether you read the manual for your camera?

I've tried this on Sony a6000 as well, and this process makes it fairly easy to shoot 9-12-15 exposures pretty fast. The only drawback is you have to touch the camera every 3 shots.

That camera, as well as the A7 series, can be used remotely both tethered and untethered. Most people have a smartphone. It can be connected to the camera and do all necessary settings as well as automagically play a HDR shooting sequence (or stacking sequence if you wish). You will even see the viewfinder image on the phone while working. So a simple app for the phone is all that is needed to do this with any bracketing sequence you might fancy, without even touching the camera once. And automated, it can be done fast. But merging fifteen exposures in the computer is never fast, while two or three images can be done much faster.

What I see as problematic here is the misconception that you would need umpteen images to do a HDR image, when you need no more than what would cover the dynamic range of the scene. As the absolute limit for the optical system lies just a bit over twenty stops, there is no need to cover more dynamic range than about twenty stops, which can easily be done with two exposures no matter which camera you use if it is manufactured after about 2007. For interior shooting, one exposure that shows the interior and another for what's outside the windows will do in most cases. Any extra number of shots is overkill.

And when you have the option to shoot remote, tethered or untethered, why touch the camera while shooting? Modern cameras often can be operated remotely by WiFi and present the viewfinder image on the device you use for controlling it. Shoot any number of exposures you like for your HDR, but there's no need to touch the camera while doing it. It can sit rock steady on the tripod while you do all the manipulation on a tablet or smartphone.

[george013]

Well, if you shoot a 3 exposure HDR with 3EV stops between each shot, the result will be worse than if you shoot 9 exposures with 1EV stop between shots. The more data the HDR software gets, the better result it produces. I never got good results with more than 1EV between shots.

I was answering TS who was asking for a simple way to calculate the range in stops. Once you've calculated that, it's all yours. If you want a 3-stop bracketing just divide that by 3, for a 1 stop bracketing by 1 and for a 1/3 stop multilply with 3. That's up to you.

Urban is correcting the boundaries by placing them in the right zone which is better.

George

[Manfred M]

John - my experience is similar to what both Urban and George have mentioned. With many modern cameras reporting a dynamic range of over 14-stops at base ISO, I find few scenes where I need more than 2 or 3 exposures to get the entire range from the brightest highlights to the deepest shadows.

I also rarely use HDR software any more, as I find I get more pleasing results by manually blending the images. That being said, I don't do commercial real estate work, so can't comment on your experience.

What does strike me though is that I would have thought that a shift-tilt lens would almost be mandatory for that type of work and I'm not aware that Sony has any of these types of lenses.

[jabberdo]

John - my experience is similar to what both Urban and George have mentioned. With many modern cameras reporting a dynamic range of over 14-stops at base ISO, I find few scenes where I need more than 2 or 3 exposures to get the entire range from the brightest highlights to the deepest shadows.

I also rarely use HDR software any more, as I find I get more pleasing results by manually blending the images. That being said, I don't do commercial real estate work, so can't comment on your experience.

What does strike me though is that I would have thought that a shift-tilt lens would almost be mandatory for that type of work and I'm not aware that Sony has any of these types of lenses.

Grumpy, the Sony camera he is using will use most any lens very effectively and is only one fantastic thing about this camera. The Canon 24mm ts/e is amazing on this camera.