Nikon, no way to run a business...

[NorthernFocus]

I own a Nikkor 500mm VR lens. It is the single most expensive piece of photo gear that I possess. But I also have several other pro grade lenses and bodies. All in all I'm heavily invested in Nikon and all of my gear is registered with them, the point being that they can see that fact.

Their customer service system requires you to enter service requests on-line prior to sending equipment to the service center. I recently did so for my 500VR. The focus needs adjustment. I sent in a set of images taken on three different bodies that consistently showed the same issue. The images were of LensAlign Pro targets designed and sold specifically for the purpose of focus tuning. Also one can find on Nikon's support site the following which describes the same method of focus tuning:

1.Fix the lens to the camera and place the camera on the tripod. Do not move the tripod during testing.
2.Autofocus on a flat object such as a hardback book or small box which has fine detail a fixed distance from the camera.
3.Place a ruler at an angle of 45 degrees or more beside the object as shown below.
4.Align the flat surface of the object with a selected measurement point in the middle of the ruler.
5.Using autofocus, focus on the flat surface of the object and then use focus lock. Keeping focus lock, photograph the ruler at the point next to the flat surface.

Here is the on-line support message exchange with Nikon.

My original support request:

Lens was tested on three different camera bodies, D4, D810, and D800E. AF adjustment of +10 is necessary on each body to obtain proper focus. With 1.4x TC installed proper focus can not be obtained at all even with AF adjustment set to maximum of +20. Same results on all three bodies. I was able to complete shooting last season by avoiding use of TC. This is unacceptable for ongoing use of the lens. Use of TC must be possible for my shooting requirements.

Nikon's reply:

Thank you for contacting Nikon & I do apologize for the issue you are having. May I please ask if you have any sample images of people or anything in nature as we cannot advise on focusing charts?

Am I missing something here???

[Manfred M]

It looks like you asked a question that the online support "call centre" does not have an answer script for.

Unfortunately, this has become all too common; experts cost a lot of money, so the online support centre employees are given scripts with which to answer questions. No appropriate script = no answer. I've run into the same issue with tech support at other companies. See if they have a second level support that can help you.

Unfortunately, it looks like you have asked for something too unusual for someone to have seen the need to provide a script for.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I would have thought they'd ask the complete opposite. Please give us pictures of charts, not nature pics.

I'm as confused as you are Dan.

[William W]

It looks like you asked a question that the online support "call centre" does not have an answer script for.

Unfortunately, this has become all too common; experts cost a lot of money, so the online support centre employees are given scripts with which to answer questions. No appropriate script = no answer. I've run into the same issue with tech support at other companies. See if they have a second level support that can help you.

Unfortunately, it looks like you have asked for something too unusual for someone to have seen the need to provide a script for.

I agree 100%

But I'd move it quicker than asking for second level of support, probably because of my recent experience detailed below

How persistent are you willing to be . . .

Go onto the Nikon site and get the NAMES of all the executives that would vaguely have anything to do with anything and WRITE a concise four para. letter addressed to each and mark the envelope “Confidential - Addressee Only” send it registered post (i.e. the addressee has to sign for receipt of it.)

Ensure that your letter outlines: the original problem; what you supplied: the insane response that you received; and request both ACTION and written RESPONSE within 21 days.

Contact whatever authority you have for “Consumer Affairs” or an “Ombudsman” that deals with consumer issues and also mention that you are in communication with that Authority.



My recent example:

I do regular work for two USA Companies and I am paid by cheque (check) in $US. That means a special deposit procedure at my bank (i.e. I have to attend counter service and forms need to be completed manually by the Bank Officer). The cheques are marked with an expiry date (typically 90 days) and take 20 business days to clear. I am quite familiar with the process, but I am also considerate that many bank officers are not familiar so I am used to waiting a while for the procedure to be completed.

Last year I deposited a bundle well within the 90 day expiration date – as I know now, the catch was with this bundle some from one company had the date on the cheque in the US Style (Month Day Year) and some others use the British Style (Day Month Year) and the Bank officer made a mistake, (which I did not notice) – what happened was two of the cheques were entered as “past their date of expiration” and were dishonoured by their USA Banks.

The result (a couple of months later) was a really weird DEBIT entry on our business’s bank statement – there was no way I could relate the amounts to any previous transaction and there appeared no link to the US cheques previously deposited as the DEBIT was several tens of dollars more than any combination of the cheque amounts .

The PROBLEM:

When I telephoned the Bank’s Call Centre I was told by THREE different people that the debit was fees for international currency trades that I had made . . .??? Go figure??? After researching that facility, I telephoned back the call centre and explained that our account was not set up to access “International Currency Trades” so how could any such fees be applied . . . they said it must be so and that I was probably not aware that it was set up and that it was just that I did not have access to that facility . . . I explained that I was our Business’s Company Director and also the “Public Officer” (the person who would normally sign off on the Company Seal when making such a request to a bank) . . anyway three conversations were proving no headway and the last call centre person promised to look into the matter and get back to me within a week – 10 days later . . . nothing . . .

I sent only three letters as described above.

I had a telephone call three days later from “Director – National Customer Relations” and she had all her ducks in a row. She systematically apologized for the inconvenience; noted that the three staff to whom I spoke had been counselled and trained; offered me a full refund of the dishonoured cheques; and all the extra bank fees for the dishonour process; and also an ex gratia payment for my time and inconvenience.

I explained that, if I had been initially told something like, “I don’t know what that could be but I will investigate that and get back to you within ... days I would have been very happy.

But the problem was the call centre did not care about any issue that fell outside the script that they had in front of them to solve the ‘standard issues’ - the Director Customer Relations agreed and promised that steps would be put in place to change the Bank's call centre procedure.

If I were you I would skip the next level of tech support and take polite and firm direct action to the top of the food chain.

WW

[NorthernFocus]

..How persistent are you willing to be ...

Not very.

First, it's not my problem to fix their business model.
Second, it's not important enough to me to make it a matter of principle. There are other places to get the lens repaired who understand the concept of customer service.
Third, I'm a capitalist, not an idealist. The ultimate solution is available elsewhere in the market.

Actually a couple of years ago I made the mistake of calling the Nikon support call center. It was very obvious that the person on the phone had no knowledge of Nikon equipment nor photography. She was simply reading down a list of questions that had nothing to do with the problem that I called about. When she got to a question about what memory card I was using, she thought she had me because the card was not on the list in her Q/A manual. To which I pointed out that it was the XQD card that was supplied WITH my Nikon D4. At that point she put me on hold and went looking for help. After ten minutes or so I hung up. I got that issue resolved by using the on-line support system. Although they sent me some inane emails, they ultimately told me to send my equipment in for warranty repair. The only reason I'm even fooling with Nikon at all is because the lens in question is still under warranty. Otherwise I would have already boxed it and sent it to APS. Which I'm about to do anyway. It's only a couple of hundred dollars and life is too short. Hopefully justice will prevail and Nikon will ultimately pay via loss of customers influenced by all of the noise people like me will make in complaint

Goofy buggers.

[chauncey]

This thread is interesting in a sad sort of way as it does illustrate the vast chasms between
Canon Customer Support, we're virtually on a first name basis, and that of Nikon.

It should be considered when suggesting a brand of gear to purchase.

[NorthernFocus]

...we're virtually on a first name basis...

Hmmm. That suggests frequent contact

[William W]

Not very.

First, it's not my problem to fix their business model.
Second, it's not important enough to me to make it a matter of principle. There are other places to get the lens repaired who understand the concept of customer service.
Third, I'm a capitalist, not an idealist. The ultimate solution is available elsewhere in the market.

OK.

Understand all three points.

Obviously only the bank could rectify my (significant) loss of money - that's where my analogy has the greatest difference to your issue.

WW

[William W]

This thread is interesting in a sad sort of way as it does illustrate the vast chasms between
Canon Customer Support, we're virtually on a first name basis, and that of Nikon.

It should be considered when suggesting a brand of gear to purchase.

It is my experience that Canon Customer Service can vary, depending upon which service centre needs to contact.

Since 2004 I have had dealings with Canon AUS; HK; NZ and also EUROPE and all experiences have been significantly different: that may also be due in part or full, to my dealings being at a different time, rather than dealing with a different support centre.

WW

[NorthernFocus]

...Obviously only the bank could rectify my (significant) loss of money - that's where my analogy has the greatest difference to your issue.

Clearly if there were more zeroes behind the $, my motivation would be different

As it is, considering the state of the camera market, Nikon's recent history of bungled product releases, this customer service issue, and the cultural resistance to admit that anything is wrong at all, I suspect that their days are numbered. Hopefully they will be bought by Sony or someone with a broader income stream.

[Manfred M]

Dan - if Nikon USA is set up the same way as Nikon Canada, I suspect you were communicating with the consumer products group. All of the major players; Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony (the latter two for their video camera division) have both commercial and consumer departments.

I know Nikon Canada handles their "professional" clients through a different stream than their consumer ones. I believe you need at least two pro bodies and lenses to get this level of service

I had the opportunity (with my pro video camera) to find this out the hard way with Panasonic. The consumer group (nicely said) handle the average person on the street who's questions are less technical in nature. Dealing with them was quite similar as your round with the Nikon support people (i.e. bordering on the incompetent). The professional group issue was dealt with by techs who were on the ball and knew the product inside out.

With the bodies and glass you own; you should be able to get service through the professional side of Nikon's support network.

[PhotomanJohn]

I have had less than stellar experiences with Nikon service. I always laugh when I run into someone that won't buy a used grey market Nikon lens because they will be forced to send it to NPS or the like instead of having Nikon service it.

John

[chauncey]

It is my experience that Canon Customer Service can vary

Unquestionably true, my one interaction with California was a failure...now only New Jersey.

That suggests frequent contact

Oh yeah...mostly concerning user error and tethered shooting using their software.
When you're 72, mental lapses happen frequently.

[Shadowman]

Why not just give them what they asked for (images), see what steps they take next and go on from there. Perhaps this particular CSR was trained to ask for specific sources before your problem can be moved further up the technological support ladder. If they (Nikon) try to solve your issue with images alone; then consider moving in another direction.

[William W]

Dan, to be precise - the debit charged to our account totaled just over of $800.00. That's not more zeros on paying $200 you might pay for a service that you will get - but it is a significant amount of money to be taken out of the account without adequate explanation.

At the time I didn't know that the main part of that debit was two "dishonoured cheques returned to payer" it only appeared as an unexplained debit charged by my bank - and that was what I was initially pursuing.

Obviously with the information that cheques were dishonoured, I could have pursued the original payer in the USA and requested new cheques be sent to me - but when my bank offered to pay full recompense comprising the original cheque amounts; all fees that were charged to me; and an additional ex gratia payment to show their goodwill - that was a easy choice for me to make.

WW

[William W]

. . . tell who I have received really good customer service from recently - Fujifilm.

[Mike Buckley]

If it was me, I would have simply explained that for the amount of money you spent on the lens, I required a very different response.

Consider contacting the company you purchased the lens from and asking for their Nikon rep. The rep can cut through a lot of red tape for you...if the rep is so inclined.

Alternatively, simply send the lens to Nikon and tell them to check it out. If I had done what you did to verify that the lens is problematic, that probably would have been my first choice.

[NorthernFocus]

...With the bodies and glass you own; you should be able to get service through the professional side of Nikon's support network.

One would think so. But that's not how they're set up. One has to own a certain amount of equipment AND be a full-time professional photographer to get an NPS membership. Now I personally know people who are members and are not full time pros, but those are their requirements. Frankly I've never had any equipment problems(other than breakage) before this one. So have never been inclined to seek NPS membership anyway.

I appreciate the various words of advice. How to get the lens fixed isn't a problem. I can handle that. The point of the thread was to point out how bad things have gotten at Nikon. They are clearly out of touch with their customers (based on sales, not just this example) which is not a good place to be for a company that makes most of its money on consumer products. Ironically the limited experience that I have once you're actually in contact with the repair center is fine. It's the entire army of drones that one has to navigate to get there that is the problem. And the way they're set up, the drone horde can't be bypassed other than going to a third party authorized Nikon shop.

[William W]

. . . It's the entire army of drones that one has to navigate to get [to the competent person to deal with the issue] that is the problem. And the way they're set up, the drone horde can't be bypassed . . . other than going to a third party authorized Nikon shop.

Nicely phrased.

Nikon is not alone, with that Customer "Service" Model

WW

[Manfred M]

I find that once a company starts treating a group as a "profit centre", then customer service goes right out the window. It's all about ROI (return on investment) and cost control. Sometimes they get really confused and think their customer is the retailer, rather than the end user.

The problem seems to get accentuated when the company is missing its sales / profit targets and the cost cutters start getting at the parts of the company that deal with customers. Unfortunately, we seem to be seeing a "race to the bottom" from big business.