Flash and/or Studio Lighting

[Kyle]

I think I've progressed far enough in my photography it's time to throw in some complications to really challenge myself. I've mainly been focusing on Wildlife and Landscape photography, sticking to taking photos outdoors in natural light without worrying too much about the actual lighting conditions. I've been doing a bunch of research on lighting techniques, equipment and how to properly use light to my advantage. On days like today in -20 or -30 weather I find myself really wishing I had a better area to take photos inside so I could practice some of what I've been learning.

After Christmas I purchased a Yongnuo YN568-EX II. I'm just starting to figure out what the features are on it. I'm looking to set up a small studio area in my house where I can get a couple of lights and a makeshift background. I'm not exactly sure of what I'll need but I have been doing research on the potential options. I've got a Canon 70D so I need something compatible with that.

I've got the flash, which I'm thinking I would like to set up with a remote trigger to use off camera either as a main light or fill light. I'd also like to purchase a light I could use as the other.
I looked at Amazon at starter kits like this:
http://www.amazon.ca/CanadianStudio-.../ref=pd_cp_p_0
(or one from cowboy studio) but I am not sure I need that right away. I also know the quality isn't perfect but it looks like a good place to start. I'm thinking it could be a good setup to really experiment

If I get a remote trigger for my flash, I could just get a basic light and use a diffuser or reflector.
For triggers I was looking at the Yongnuo RF-603CII-C1 or the pocket wizard.

I'm not looking for anyone to say that I should purchase this or that. I'm really looking for advice on where to start. I don't mind spending a bit of money to get a good product either, just means I need to save up a bit more before. I've still got a ton more research to do but any direction will help.

Thanks,
Kyle

[Mike Buckley]

You'll get more effective responses if you explain the types of subject you intend to photograph, such as pets, people, small objects, medium objects, large objects, flowers, glass, food or whatever.

[chauncey]

With what you're suggesting, your not breaking the bank.
With my table top stuff I'm using these things clamped hither and yon...I knew it

Have you considered shooting tethered using your copy of Canon Utility Software...
It gives you real time feedback on your lighting scenarios.

[inkista]

...After Christmas I purchased a Yongnuo YN568-EX II. I'm just starting to figure out what the features are on it. I'm looking to set up a small studio area in my house where I can get a couple of lights and a makeshift background. I'm not exactly sure of what I'll need but I have been doing research on the potential options. I've got a Canon 70D so I need something compatible with that. ...

This is just my opinion, but right now, the easiest thing for you to do is get a stand, a swivel, the diffusing modifier of your choice (umbrella, softbox, whatever), and just use the built-in wireless eTTL slave in the YN-568EXII (Sc slave mode) and the built-in wireless eTTL master in the 70D's pop-up flash.

Indoors, in studio conditions, the Canon light-based system works just fine, and there's no reason to go to radio triggers just yet (save that for when you go outside and Canon's light-based system starts to make you swear a blue streak . The built-in Canon wireless system has all the bells and whistles. You can learn to use eTTL vs. M mode on the flash, you'll have high-speed sync if you need it, and you can remotely control just about every. damn. thing. on the flash from the camera menu. Once you move to radio triggers, you're going to lose some of that functionality. It's good to know what you're going to be giving up and whether or not you can live without it.

I would also suggest, as a checklist of getting prepped for off-camera flash, that you make sure you're familiar with the two following things:

1. You are comfortable shooting in M mode on the camera. You eat ambient for breakfast. You know how to trade stops among iso, aperture, and shutter speed in non-flash photography. If you are not yet comfortable in M, you really want to be before you deal with flash. Because your auto modes are metering-based, and the meter can only measure what's in the sceen. That doesn't include the flash.

2. (and many would disagree with me on this) You are comfortable with the flash on the hotshoe, in eTTL, and bouncing. If you've been reading the Strobist, you may be tempted to think that on-camera, eTTL, and bouncing are completely useless and not worth learning. They're not. Hobby assumed, when he started the blog in 2006, that the only people he was blogging for were fellow photojournalists who were already very conversant with bounced flash and wanted to get past the limitations of the same for editorial work. If you are unaware of what on-camera bounced flash can do, go read Neil van Nierkerk's Tangents. It is to on-camera flash photography what the Strobist is to off-camera flash. Chasing kids, event shooting--these are completely appropriate times to be using on-camera bouncing. It's smaller, lighter, and much more convenient than going Strobist. Going Strobist means adding a lighting bag to the gear you already cart around. There may be times you still want to use flash without all the extra gear.

For me, it was simpler and easier to learn off-camera flash by starting with a single on-camera flash. YMMV.

[Kyle]

You'll get more effective responses if you explain the types of subject you intend to photograph, such as pets, people, small objects, medium objects, large objects, flowers, glass, food or whatever.

At this point I'm really looking at experimenting with different subjects. Anything from people to smaller objects. I'd like to experiment with faster shutter speeds and with portraits.

[Kyle]

With what you're suggesting, your not breaking the bank.
With my table top stuff I'm using these things clamped hither and yon...I knew it

Have you considered shooting tethered using your copy of Canon Utility Software...
It gives you real time feedback on your lighting scenarios.

I read your post earlier and was inspired. I actually saved a container that could be used as a snoot once I get a proper light.

I have looked into tethered shooting. If I shoot close to my PC I'll definitely take advantage of it. Thanks for the advice.

[Kyle]

1. You are comfortable shooting in M mode on the camera.

I'm getting better in M mode. I can't 100% get the proper exposure without a test shot or two but I seem to be within a few stops and I know what to adjust to get the kind of look I want.

2. (and many would disagree with me on this) You are comfortable with the flash on the hotshoe, ....

For me, it was simpler and easier to learn off-camera flash by starting with a single on-camera flash. YMMV.

Actually I don't have too much experience yet with the flash at all. I've used it a few times but most of what I've been doing is reading/watching videos on proper lighting. I think I'll take your advice and work on using the flash on camera or off with eTTL and a cheap stand/diffuser. Once I get that figured out I can move on to adding more lights.

Thanks for the advice.

[Manfred M]

Kyle - I would suggest that you master a single small flash first, before jumping into something more significant.

I totally agree with Kathy; get yourself a light stand, a flash mount for it and an umbrella (try for a convertible so you can try shoot through as well as bounce). These should set you back about $100. As a second light source, look at getting a white piece of foamcore (think something like a project board) and use that as a reflector.

These sources can get you going on table-top work as well as portraiture. You'll be amazed at what a simple setup like that can do for you from a quality image standpoint.

I wouldn't worry too much about a snoot right now. That's a fairly specialized light source used in a mult-light setup to add a small splash of light into the image.

[rpcrowe]

Regarding Kathy'svery sage comments:
"2. (and many would disagree with me on this) You are comfortable with the flash on the hotshoe, in eTTL, and bouncing. If you've been reading the Strobist, you may be tempted to think that on-camera, eTTL, and bouncing are completely useless and not worth learning. They're not. Hobby assumed, when he started the blog in 2006, that the only people he was blogging for were fellow photojournalists who were already very conversant with bounced flash and wanted to get past the limitations of the same for editorial work. If you are unaware of what on-camera bounced flash can do, go read Neil van Nierkerk's Tangents. It is to on-camera flash photography what the Strobist is to off-camera flash. Chasing kids, event shooting--these are completely appropriate times to be using on-camera bouncing. It's smaller, lighter, and much more convenient than going Strobist."

A way to get some very nice lighting for people, animals and events is to use a bounced hotshoe flash mounted on a Camera Flip Bracket (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bower-VA344-...item4ab71b19cc) these brackets are sold by Stroboframe, Bower and others.


The camera flip bracket is IMO superior to the flash flip bracket because the flash is always in position for bouncing with the camera flip bracket. This is not the case with the flash flip bracket as the next two images will illustrate...





I will almost always modify my flash using a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Professional http://www.dembflashproducts.com/pro...lash-diffuser/

Here is a link to my smugmug gallery of portraits done with a single flash on a camera-flip bracket and modified with a Flash Difuser Professional
http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/Portraits...ional/n-LPGK4/

Here are my rescue dog portraits, again done with a single bounced flash, modified with a Flash Diffuser Professionalhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/127242428@N06/

Indoors, your camera's built-in flash will trigger the strobe. Outdoors, the built-in flash triggering can be chancy and an off-camera cord is a great way to ensure that the flash will fire when you want it to.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-Off-Ca...item20f700c9f1
Of course, the off camera cord can also be used indoors which is the way I normally have it rigged since then I can shoot both inside and outside with 100% confidence that my flash will fire correctly...

BTW:

Strobist has a lot to offer however, i don't always agree with the basic philosophy of duding up hotshoe flashes to try to do the job that can be done better with a set of small studio strobes. The disadvantage of studio strobes is the need for a/c power. However that eliminates the need for fresh batteries and keeps the recharge time constant.

However the main advantage of a studio strobe is the modeling light which shows you what your flash will look like. It takes away most of the advantages of continuous lighting.

The studio strobe can be equipped with many types of light modifiers without needing to jury-rig like when you use a softbox on a hotshoe flash. The studio strobe can be attached to a light stand without jury-rigging it either.

However, the main advantage of the studio strobe is the WYSIWYG lighting made possible by the modeling light. I do my photography in a darkened room and the modeling light gives me all the illumination I need, helps my focus as well as showing me what I will get with the flash...

IMO, it's using the correct tool for the job. You can drive a tack with a sledge hammer but, using a correct hammer makes life easier.

[D L]

2. (and many would disagree with me on this) You are comfortable with the flash on the hotshoe, in eTTL, and bouncing. If you've been reading the Strobist, you may be tempted to think that on-camera, eTTL, and bouncing are completely useless and not worth learning. They're not. Hobby assumed, when he started the blog in 2006, that the only people he was blogging for were fellow photojournalists who were already very conversant with bounced flash and wanted to get past the limitations of the same for editorial work. If you are unaware of what on-camera bounced flash can do, go read Neil van Nierkerk's Tangents. It is to on-camera flash photography what the Strobist is to off-camera flash. Chasing kids, event shooting--these are completely appropriate times to be using on-camera bouncing. It's smaller, lighter, and much more convenient than going Strobist. Going Strobist means adding a lighting bag to the gear you already cart around. There may be times you still want to use flash without all the extra gear.

For me, it was simpler and easier to learn off-camera flash by starting with a single on-camera flash. YMMV.

I think Kathy might be right about this, although I went down the strobist.blogspot.com route first. Then I discovered Neil Van Neikerk, and now I am circling back to the strobist again.


Here is a good youtube with Neil van Niekerk speaking at B&H in New York link He is presenting on the importance of direction and quality of light, including natural light, on camera, bounced or off camera.

I would still encourage you to do (not just read, but do) the first few exercises of strobist's lighting 102. Even just the first couple on angle and distance. They helped me understand my flash a lot.

[William W]

I'm getting better in M mode. I can't 100% get the proper exposure without a test shot or two but I seem to be within a few stops and I know what to adjust to get the kind of look I want.

What Metering Mode do you use?

Do you now the differences between the Metering Modes you have available to use?

*

Apropos advice for developing your Flash Skills - plus one to what Kathie wrote and added to it - whilst developing your basic skills using ON camera Flash - learn and understand the use of Flash Exposure Compensation - but you need to master "eating Ambient for Breakfast" first and that's why I asked about the Metering Modes as there is really no point in ADDING FLASH to the AMBIENT lighting if you don't first nail the Ambient Exposure- OR - if in your studio you want to use ONLY Flash and you do not have 'studio conditions' (i.e. a dark studio), then you need to understand the Ambient so the Flash can overpower it and subsequently NOT affect the image.

WW

[chauncey]

I can't 100% get the proper exposure without a test shot

Your one lucky fella because you shoot Canon which, when in live view, a histogram can be displayed
for the scene in question. Check your manual to see how to activate that histogram while in live view.

As that histogram is based on a jpeg representation of that image meaning that you must neutralize
all of your camera settings (saturation/contrast/and the like), move the sliders to the left. That will
give you a reasonable indication of a RAW histogram in your PP software.

While the scene is showing in LV with that histogram showing, adjust your SS, f/stop, and ISO, to
move exposure to the right without binkies' showing up. All that sounds more complex than it is,
you will quickly become accustomed to the newfound technique.

I haven't used anything but manual mode in years.

[William W]

[Loose Canon]

lol!

Um, could I get the Frosted Flakes on the side please?

[Kyle]

Kyle - I would suggest that you master a single small flash first, before jumping into something more significant.

I totally agree with Kathy; get yourself a light stand, a flash mount for it and an umbrella (try for a convertible so you can try shoot through as well as bounce). These should set you back about $100. As a second light source, look at getting a white piece of foamcore (think something like a project board) and use that as a reflector...

I think I'm going to do just this. I've been looking on Amazon and I can get all of this (convertible umbrella, reflector and stand) for cheap. I found an old mic stand we have for Rock Band which I might be able to use as an umbrella stand.

I wouldn't worry too much about a snoot right now. That's a fairly specialized light source used in a mult-light setup to add a small splash of light into the image.

I'm not too worried about a snoot. I just had something that looked like I might be able to make one out of it so I figured I'd keep it around. Even if I don't end up using it right away, it's still neat to make one.

I will almost always modify my flash using a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Professional http://www.dembflashproducts.com/pro...lash-diffuser/

Here is a link to my smugmug gallery of portraits done with a single flash on a camera-flip bracket and modified with a Flash Difuser Professional
http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/Portraits...ional/n-LPGK4/

Here are my rescue dog portraits, again done with a single bounced flash, modified with a Flash Diffuser Professionalhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/127242428@N06/

I'll definitely look into everything you mentioned. They seem cheap enough that if I buy them one at a time as I learn more, they'll all be useful at a good price. Especially after seeing what you've been able to do with a single flash as the Joe Dem Diffuser, I'll be looking at that sooner rather than later.

What Metering Mode do you use?

Do you now the differences between the Metering Modes you have available to use?

I mostly use evaluative but I know what all the modes are on my camera and I try to use them when necessary. I'm no pro but I believe I know what I'm doing enough to get by. Part of trying to create studio conditions is that I can experiment with the lighting (ambient and artificial).

Your one lucky fella because you shoot Canon which, when in live view, a histogram can be displayed
for the scene in question. Check your manual to see how to activate that histogram while in live view.
...
All that sounds more complex than it is,
you will quickly become accustomed to the newfound technique.

Awesome, I didn't know that you could do that. After you mentioned it I quickly tried it out and got it working. My fiancee helped me with a mini-modeling session today. I set up with my flash on camera and used a basic Ikea lamp to help with some extra light (my apartment is very dark). I think I've got some decent results to work with.

Thank you everyone for all the advice. I think I'll get just what I need to get going and save the money for new glass.

[William W]

OK, Thanks for answering. This is another conversation, apart from the Flash Question that you are asking.

IF you are using (Canon) Evaluative Metering most of the time and you:

“can't 100% get the proper exposure without a test shot or two but (I) seem to be within a few stops and I know what to adjust to get the kind of look I want.

(my bold and underlined for emphasis)

Then I have concerns/questions:

What is it that is “this look” that you want?

Are you attempting to shoot direct to the final product as a JPEG SOOC (Straight Out Of Camera)?

If your goal is not JPEG SOOC you should NOT necessarily and usually be seeking to have “a look” that you want - but rather you should (usually) be seeking to pack the most amount of raw data (pivoted around the correct exposure for the Main Subject), that you can pack into the file - so you can then forward that data to the Digital Darkroom for Processing to get "the look that you want".

What I am getting at is: I simply don’t understand what your aim is by taking one or two test shots (in M Mode using Evaluative Metering) and the results are within a "few stops" of the correct exposure.

Evaluative Metering on Canon DSLRs is very VERY good for most shooting/lighting scenarios.

If you are using Evaluative Metering and you are 'a few' (i.e. more than two) stops incorrect, then my concern is that you are either:

a) not taking much notice of what the Meter is reading

and/or

b)taking these test shots as habit; and if it is habit, then my opinion is that is a bad habit – and yes, it is a common bad habit. (‘bad’ in the meaning of 'unnecessary').

WW

[Manfred M]

I haven't used anything but manual mode in years.

I'm trying to figure out why?

Evaluative metering in a modern camera is so good that I can't figure out why you would do that; especially with integrated system flash like the ones offered by Canon and Nikon.

I would say the only time that I will go to manual metering is when I am using studio flash or doing something strange, like panoramic shots, where I need to set exposure manually. When using studio flash; I use a flash meter when setting up my lights pretty well 100% of the time.

I don't have Panasonic flash, so on the rare occasions I use one of the Nikon flashes with the GX7, that is done on manual as well.

[Kyle]

What I am getting at is: I simply don’t understand what your aim is by taking one or two test shots (in M Mode using Evaluative Metering) and the results are within a "few stops" of the correct exposure.

...

If you are using Evaluative Metering and you are 'a few' (i.e. more than two) stops incorrect, then my concern is that you are either:

a) not taking much notice of what the Meter is reading

and/or

b)taking these test shots as habit; and if it is habit, then my opinion is that is a bad habit – and yes, it is a common bad habit. (‘bad’ in the meaning of 'unnecessary').

I almost always shoot RAW and edit my photos. I usually shoot to get the correct exposure but I do admit I have a bad habit of not always checking the histogram. I'm starting to do that more.

[chauncey]

I'm trying to figure out why

My body is 7 years old and never had much luck with evaluative metering...manual works for me.

[William W]

I almost always shoot RAW and edit my photos. I usually shoot to get the correct exposure but I do admit I have a bad habit of not always checking the histogram. I'm starting to do that more.

OK, thanks for replying. For the the archival integrity off the thread the habit of consistently checking the histogram is the "bad" habit to which I was referring.

I'll leave this conversation as concluded unless you wish to pursue it further.

WW