Composition advice needed

[Stagecoach]

For the past couple of weeks I have looked forward to a planned shoot, the full moon rising half an hour before sunset that I would be able to put my favorite tree in front. So I shot it tonight and am disappointed, I had hoped for calm water but it was windy in this location, it was also lighter than I had anticipated during the period up to the moon getting to high too make use of.

Tomorrow the moon rises at the same time as sunset so the whole scene will be darker, to my advantage.

So my question is, can you suggest a better composition for this shot?

I have no restrictions for framing left or right of the tree but am restricted getting lower other than by using a wider FL (unless I jump off the seawall and swim with the camera).

If there's not much wind I could also possibly do a long (and short for the moon) exposure.

1/30s, f/8, 75mm.


Grahame

[Shadowman]

Nicely exposed. Try to catch the moon at a lower position and closer to the tree; almost overlapping.

[Stagecoach]

Nicely exposed. Try to catch the moon at a lower position and closer to the tree; almost overlapping.

Thanks John, by lower and closer are you suggesting say half the distance from the horizon and to the left so it would fall roughly in that natural gap in the tree very roughly centre frame?

[Mike Buckley]

by lower and closer are you suggesting say half the distance from the horizon and to the left so it would fall roughly in that natural gap in the tree very roughly centre frame?

I'm not John but that's sort of my thinking so long as the scene doesn't look too contrived. Try moving the moon in your current photo to other positions to get a better idea of what the effectiveness of those positions might be.

The final determination will also have to do with whatever clouds happen to be in the sky. So, despite all your planning, your best plan is to be flexible.

[Rebel]

Thanks John, by lower and closer are you suggesting say half the distance from the horizon and to the left so it would fall roughly in that natural gap in the tree very roughly centre frame?

That sounds like a winner to me, it is a really nice image as it is to.

[Stagecoach]

I'm not John but that's sort of my thinking so long as the scene doesn't look too contrived. Try moving the moon in your current photo to other positions to get a better idea of what the effectiveness of those positions might be.

The final determination will also have to do with whatever clouds happen to be in the sky. So, despite all your planning, your best plan is to be flexible.

Thanks Mike, I'll have a go in the daytime tomorrow at moving that moon around an assessing the look, I had not thought of that. You are right about the clouds, I did manage one shot with it sitting nicely between the clouds slightly lower but preferred this one.

It may very well be that I do not end up with an image I like but I just thought I would attempt to take the opportunity when sun, moon and tide are each in my favour like this which does not happen very often.

Having shot this tonight, driving home I had to pass my favourite sunset shooting location and now have yet another fifty odd sunset images to sort............................

[Shadowman]

Thanks John, by lower and closer are you suggesting say half the distance from the horizon and to the left so it would fall roughly in that natural gap in the tree very roughly centre frame?

Hi Grahame, yes that was my line of thought.

[Manfred M]

Grahame - it strikes me that you could do with a bit less sky. Most of the top really isn't contributing anything to the image. Lose about half of what you have between the top of the frame and the moon, and that should strengthen the image.

[Barbara Ponder]

Oh, I love trees! I would give a little more room to negative space on the left of the tree and as Manfred suggested a little less sky. As is it is a very nice shot.

[Loose Canon]

If there's not much wind I could also possibly do a long (and short for the moon) exposure.

I think the shot would rock with this treatment Grahame. Meaning a very smooth, silky water surface.

It’s a great tree. Seemingly isolated and alone giving a feeling of tranquility in this particular scene. To me at least, the chop of the water disrupts the feeling the rest of the shot is giving me.

I think it would at least be worth a shot while (if) you have the elements in your favor. If I were looking at re-shooting this I would even slap a ND filter on if I thought it necessary and go wild!

[Brownbear]

Beautiful image, with a +1 to Terry's suggestion for silky water, blue just like my favourite image of yours.

[Mike Buckley]

Considering the current position of the moon, I believe the amount of sky at the top is needed. However, once (if) the moon is in the lower position being discussed, I agree that less sky at the top would be appropriate.

[Polar01]

To my way of thinking I am leaning towards using a ND filter, one shot to get the tree and sky and then one with the filter to smooth out the water then blend the two images together.

Cheers: Allan

[bnnrcn]

I like the composition as is. I agree with the other members about the silky water with an ND filter. IMO the image would look better if you could shoot the tree as a silhouette.

[IzzieK]

Moving the moon -- meaning PP-wise? I am not a fan of silky water but I think it will strengthen the mood of the shot...as per Terry's suggestion.

[Stagecoach]

That sounds like a winner to me, it is a really nice image as it is to.

Thanks Matt

[selig1656]

Take various pics from an array of angles and positioning of the moon, this will give you many options.That my friend is one of the great attributes of digital cameras vs. film. With a simple click one can delete at no cost.

[Stagecoach]

Manfred, Barbara, Terry, Christina, Mike, Alan, Binnur and Izzie

Thanks for your input on this one it is very much appreciated.

Rather than reply to each post separately and keep repeating the same I'll sum things up as I see it now.

COMPOSITION & CROPPING

In the posted shot I cropped from both sides and top but had nothing to crop at the bottom. My priority for framing the next attempt will be to have more water in front of the tree which is possible from the position using a wider FL. This will then give endless options for a final crop, so basically on site I now know the overall framing I need.

The positioning of the moon I suspect will be determined by cloud (looking at the weather this morning) but I will aim to lower it and bring it closer to the tree. I may get lucky and have time to get it in a few different positions.

EXPOSURES

The positioning of the moon as in the shot above will happen 30 minutes later tonight and on going through shots I took after this one 30 minutes later I was able to get 4 and 6s shots actually aiming to the direction that the sun had set. So this shot will be easier for a long exposure without an ND but I will have one with me and ready.

I will go for long exposure smoothing the water and a short for the moon and attempt blending in PP.

To my way of thinking I am leaning towards using a ND filter, one shot to get the tree and sky and then one with the filter to smooth out the water then blend the two images together.

Cheers: Allan

Alan's comment is interesting. My assumption being that this would require three shots, one for the moon (it will be far brighter than the above shot being 1/2 hour later) with respect to the rest of the scene, one for the tree and sky, one for the water (smoothing).

One bonus for tonight is that the tide will be slightly lower hopefully revealing some of the roots of the mangrove tree. Now all I have to hope is that it's not too cloudy, too windy or raining

Grahame

[Stagecoach]

Take various pics from an array of angles and positioning of the moon, this will give you many options.That my friend is one of the great attributes of digital cameras vs. film. With a simple click one can delete at no cost.

If only things were that simple

The above shot had some thought put into it as to where to position the moon and the decision was based upon the angle of the tree, the intended final crop format and where I can physically get with relation to the tree determining the framing and relative size of the components.

This shot was achieved with one exposure due to the lighting conditions that were (unusually) favorable for each of the moon, tree and water. The water lets this image down so we are now into the scenario of having to take multiple exposures adding to the process. To get a good chance of getting it 'right' I would also take more than one series for a particular framing, adding more time to the process.

I only have one more chance to capture this scene (weather permitting) so the object of the exercise is to tackle it with a very clear plan and remove com-positional variables so I can concentrate on the techs.

[Stagecoach]

Well, results not quite as I would have liked but a good learning experience. After a day of torrential rain showers and heavy cloud at times the evening cleared up and off I went.

Not quite so easy, the problem being that as the moon got higher the difference between exposure for water/tree and the moon became too great. Basically to expose the moon correctly meant that everything else became jet black. To expose the tree/water correctly, with a long exposure smoothing the water, the brightness surrounding the moon (now well overexposed) impinged on the tree which would make it very difficult to undertake any reasonable blending that looked correct.

So here's a couple of the 'early' shots, single exposures, I do have 30s slow water ones that I could replace this water with but not sure it's worth the effort.

1/1.3s, f5.6


1s, f5.6


Grahame