Etched Glass

[Rob Ekins]

Inspired by Mike Buckley's work I thought I would give this glass caper a go...easy right! I mean he makes an image and thirty seconds later there is another thread with another concept.. how hard can it be?

Actually, very!


I know what I like and dislike about the image but would be great to hear from others...so fire away, you have to be cruel to be kind

[Mike Buckley]

I hope everyone will closely examine this photo at the largest (uploaded) size because there is so much to like about it. This is very well done, Robbie.

I suspect that the etching is only on one side of the glass. If I'm right, I'm jealous of your subject. If I'm wrong, I'm jealous of whatever technique you used to make me think it's only on one side.

Some people will no doubt critique the image for the darker display of (probably) the tabletop than the lighter display of (probably) the background. Personally, I like that tonal variation.

There is one very small area on the left, bottom side of the bowl of the glass where you lost separation between the glass and the background. I can sympathize. I have even been known (though not admittedly) to make such corrections during post-processing.

I wonder why the lower part of the reflection is more blurred than the higher part of the reflection. I doubt that this is explained by limitations of the depth of field but I could be wrong.

The etching is so beautiful that I probably would have aimed for providing uniform luminosity in that area of the bowl. Viewers tend to view the brightest part of an image first. In this case, that brightness draws our attention to the bottom of the etching and the upper area of the stem. I probably would have aimed for the brightest area of the background to be either the bowl or the bowl and the upper part of the stem. (Such a gorgeous stem!) If I couldn't have made that arrangement fairly easily using my lighting setup, I would have done so during post-processing.

By the way, you might want to contact the company that made the glass and advise them that it would have been helpful to all photographers if they had centered the etching when displaying the stem in this position.

If you feel comfortable sharing your setup, I'm sure others would appreciate the details. I sure would!

I mean he makes an image and thirty seconds later there is another thread with another concept

Surely you meant to type thirty hours, not seconds.

[Stagecoach]

+1 to Mikes comments. It is an extremely fine image

[IzzieK]

Beautiful...

[bnnrcn]

+1 to Mike. Although I don't shoot glass , I enjoy Mike's images and learn a lot from them. It is nice to see your glass work too. Your subject is beautiful and your image is very nice

[Rob Ekins]

Thanks for the kind words Mike they means a lot to me.

I will respond in detail tomorrow, right now I must continue the good fight that is.... kiddie bath time!

[mugge]

This glass caper is hard to do and I think you have done well.
Cheers Mugge

[Shadowman]

Nicely done, the missing chunk of glass is the only thing that stands out to me.

[Jill]

Rob,
You have done such a good job on this, I am impressed and slightly jealous.
I am going to try this one day.

Mike, thanks for your comments. It helps to know what to look for and be aware of.

Especially with something that is so exacting as this.

[Mike Buckley]

I must continue the good fight that is.... kiddie bath time!

I'm rooting for Dad in that good fight.

[Wavelength]

Excellent

[Rob Ekins]

Thanks for the kind words every one.

Here goes.....

The glass in this image is one part of a pair that were hand etched by a dear friend and given to my wife and I as a wedding gift. They are yet to meet any wine in anger, perhaps in a few months on our 10th wedding anniversary. In fact the two pieces are considered to be so precious that I had to do the lighting set up with a stand in glass, only then could I bring in the subject for final tweaks and capture, she was promptly returned to the safety of the cupboard above the fridge..

The tonal variation in the BG/Tabletop that you point too was indeed considered, as you know this type of image involves minute adjustments of the subject, lighting sources and flags. What I struggled with most was the compromises between edge definition an appealing background and most importantly to me in this instance making the etching come to life. As I moved any of the key elements mentioned one or more parts of the image would change appearance. So I made a decision that the leading edge of the fairy, her breast, face and forehead followed by the upper trailing wings needed the most attention. I tried using multiple sources under and around the table to fill parts of the BG but ended up using just one flash. When I introduced other sources or more light from the existing flash the result was usually specular highlights which I wanted to avoid. I really enjoyed her dark leading edge heading towards that dark edge of the glass.


Which brings me to the other edge CL. For the life of me I could not get rid of that highlight in the bottom of the bowl and keep the elements described above. Interestingly two friends that have viewed the image consider that point to be a plus, neither can say why exactly, they just like it.. So if anyone asks....totally planned..


I suspect that the focus issue you describe was a result of the table I used and the placement of the glass. The table has a curved back much like a Cyclorama used in a theatre or TV studio. As I was working in limited space I needed to place the glass as far back on the table as possible this resulted in it being placed partially up the curve of the back wall and leaning forward some what. So my guess is the difference in planes at that point in the image. I doubt it is DOF as my calculations gave me 400mm either side of the stem.

The setup
Canon 6D tethered WiFi: Absolutely invaluable for reviewing images when making the smallest adjustment under the table.
Canon 70-200 2.8L @180mm f16 ISO 250: Strange choice I know but it was the only lens that worked for me in the space, 1700mm from the focal plane to the glass stem.

What it took to get to this stage...

6 man hours (Once I had established that I wanted Light not Dark)
150+ frames shot.
Countless repositioning of light source and flags.
Multiple movements of the camera and subject to get the composition.
Many re reads of Light Science and Magic: Thank you Fil Hunter and Steven Biver.
More clicks of the spot healing brush than should be allowed in one file.

My....erm... "Studio"

Please note that the glass for the shot was further back and partially up the curve, also the camera was more square to the image at the time. The white shower screen on the floor and running up the back wall was used to try and get a bit more light diffusion and negate the colour cast from that gorgeous carpet, in hindsight the colour cast was never going to be an issue. The drape on the soft box CR has been moved but helped define the leading edge of the glass.


I hope that helps people understand what goes into making an image like this. If any one has any questions or suggestion fire away.

[Mike Buckley]

A pair of hand-etched wine glasses! What a wonderful wedding present! Congratulations on your upcoming 10th anniversary!

I'm still confused about the tabletop. It appears that a white material is laid on top of your table. Is that white material opaque or translucent? What is the top of your table underneath that white material made of?

Did you use any light source other than the speed light located under the table?

You mentioned that you couldn't get the separation between background and the left side of the bowl without affecting other parts of the image. In a pinch, that can be solved by taking multiple captures and combining them to make a satisfactory composite using the best parts of each capture.

Not that it matters, but for future shots consider that you should have been able to move the camera closer to the subject using a shorter focal length if that would have been helpful. If you were using the method explained in Light:Science and Magic of filling the frame (no more and no less) with the white background, changing focal lengths doesn't help. That's because using a longer focal length requires moving the camera farther away to maintain accurate placement of the background within the frame. Similarly, using a shorter focal length requires moving the camera closer. The authors even mention that detail in the book. As an example, I almost always use a 35mm lens on a camera with a 1.5 crop factor because I don't have enough space in my makeshift studio to fill the frame (no more and no less) using my next longer focal length of 85mm.

Why omit author Paul Fuqua when thanking the other two authors of Light: Science and Magic?

[Mike Buckley]

I just now got another idea about the composition. If you turn the glass 180 degrees, the fairy will be facing in the opposite direction and will be looking into the large rather than small amount of negative space. However, my guess is that you placed the etching on the forward part of the bowl. To position it on the rear part of the bowl will likely cause the front part to refract the light, resulting in a distorted fairy. Even so, I would try it.

[Rob Ekins]

Thanks Mike.

I am off to work now, I will respond later today.

[Rob Ekins]

I'm still confused about the tabletop. It appears that a white material is laid on top of your table. Is that white material opaque or translucent? What is the top of your table underneath that white material made of?

The table top is translucent white acrylic 3mm maybe, non reflective on one side reflective on the other, I chose the shiny side for this project. For a better understanding of the product I purchased from ebay the item can be found here.

Did you use any light source other than the speed light located under the table?

No, I used a single YN560iii with a YN602 trigger in the hot shoe fired via my Samsung 10.1 tablet using the Canon EOS app. That speed light is pointing at a large sheet of white card which is in front of the white shower screen material, the idea being to increase the size of the light that hits the back of the table. A small single source such as a flash becomes a larger source once it is bounced off a larger surface. (I am sure you are aware of the concept of bounced light, I added this detail for the benefit of others that may not)

You mentioned that you couldn't get the separation between background and the left side of the bowl without affecting other parts of the image. In a pinch, that can be solved by taking multiple captures and combining them to make a satisfactory composite using the best parts of each capture.

I agree, however I really wanted this exercise to be a lesson in lighting glass for myself. I will do that edit instead of a re-shoot when I make prints for "Granny Anne" the creator of these pieces.

Not that it matters, but for future shots consider that you should have been able to move the camera closer to the subject using a shorter focal length if that would have been helpful. If you were using the method explained in Light:Science and Magic of filling the frame (no more and no less) with the white background, changing focal lengths doesn't help. That's because using a longer focal length requires moving the camera farther away to maintain accurate placement of the background within the frame. Similarly, using a shorter focal length requires moving the camera closer. The authors even mention that detail in the book. As an example, I almost always use a 35mm lens on a camera with a 1.5 crop factor because I don't have enough space in my makeshift studio to fill the frame (no more and no less) using my next longer focal length of 85mm.

I really struggled with focal length during the initial set up this shot, I was very concious of the finite rules given in LSM that you mention. My 50mm f1.8 and 17-40 f4L would not get focus at the distance required to "Fill the frame no more no less" I had noted that your images were shot at 35mm and wondered how, I put it down to my set up verses yours and a touch of impatience in that early stage.

Why omit author Paul Fuqua when thanking the other two authors of Light: Science and Magic?

A genuine mistake, I didn't have LSM at hand so I Googled the book to get the authors name, Paul was not mentioned in that search return.. Sorry Pauley we love you too!

I just now got another idea about the composition. If you turn the glass 180 degrees, the fairy will be facing in the opposite direction and will be looking into the large rather than small amount of negative space. However, my guess is that you placed the etching on the forward part of the bowl. To position it on the rear part of the bowl will likely cause the front part to refract the light, resulting in a distorted fairy. Even so, I would try it.

Correct, the etching was on the front face. I really like your idea but first I want to do a dark field version of one of the pieces as another lesson in lighting glass, then I need to capture the pair as a single image, as you know both of those concepts mean a complete reset, unfortunately neither of these images will get made before next week as I am off interstate first thing in the morning.

Thanks so much for taking the time to review this image. And... thank you for sharing your wonderful images that influenced this shoot, without seeing those images I would not have challenged myself in this area.

[Loose Canon]

What it took to get to this stage...

6 man hours (Once I had established that I wanted Light not Dark)
150+ frames shot.
Countless repositioning of light source and flags.
Multiple movements of the camera and subject to get the composition.
Many re reads of Light Science and Magic: Thank you Fil Hunter and Steven Biver.
More clicks of the spot healing brush than should be allowed in one file.

Hi Robbie!

Ah, Life in the Studio!

Guess it ain’t all jet-setting glam supermodels, celebrities, tons of assistants, catered lunches, skittles and beer! I’m on my third spot healing brush! Wore out the first two!

I feel lucky to emerge from mine alive! I’m usually covered in my own blood, soaked with god-only-knows-what kind of liquids, and hoping I got all the fires put out!

Very nice job with this Robbie! That is one awesome glass. Can’t say I’ve seen anything like that one! I appreciate you posting your ordeal (I got a kick out of reading it!) and the bts shots. Always better to see the set-up to see what is going on with the shot.

I guess if I were to say anything else about the shot I would wonder about getting a little more prominent black line on the rim, but certainly not a deal-breaker. Some local contrast enhancement might help pop the fairy some more, also give a sharper look to it (contrast adjustment can do that).

And I would also say missing chunk of glass? What missing chunk of glass?

Nice work Robbie.

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks for the continued explanations, Robbie. Now everything makes sense including the distorted reflection.

You mentioned the focusing being an issue on two of your lenses. One reason my 35mm prime lens works so well in my tabletop photography is that it focuses at a relatively close distance -- about 10 inches (25mm). Indeed, I've been making a set of images lately where the distance between camera and subject is only a bit more than that.

Please be sure to let Granny Anne know how much we admire her artistry.

[Chri5]

I love it. Its Razor sharp. I cant actually see one thing to criticize about it.

[Rob Ekins]

Thanks for the great edit Terry,

I will have to try and replicate it before I print the image.