Orchid, Take 2...HELP???

[IzzieK]

Thank you, William...I was hoping you would comment and I was not disappointed...I tried doing the unfolding yesterday, but it just doesn't want to budge, so I left it like that because it is more softer at the top now...

Thank you for your kind words..I really do appreciate your opinion...I did not take a photography of the #2 two dollar orchid because the flowers were dead, I just cut it off gently...do you know that if you only cut the spent flowers on an orchid, it will flower again? That is what happened to the greenish orchid that I have. And of course every 3 weeks I will soak it in fish fertilizer mixture (from Alaska) for 3 seconds, drain it and put it back where they live...

First off, I would fold that top petal forward...gently pull on the edges while pushing the center inwards.
Your exposure is fine and lighting is ok for the first time.

You only have a couple spots in focus, something's amiss...shallow DOF, as has been said.
Most of us will focus stack those things. You can do it by very delicately twisting your focusing ring
over and over and over until completely encompassing your entire subject depth.

It looks fine...just not stacked. They are not a flower that lends itself to shallow DOF.

[IzzieK]

Hi Izzie,

Some advice already given but I think we need to look at the fundamentals first in order to be most helpful for you.

Firstly, I will make the assumption that you are using the tripod in your studio, if not you are wasting your time

You need to understand that the DoF is going to be 'limited' and you are not going to be able to get the entire depth of the flower in focus. Knowing this you need to decide what aperture is going to give you the the 'best' you can get (lets ignore diffraction for now) and I would suggest you start with f/18. (This can be further discussed if we know what lens you are using).

You now need to appreciate that the depth of 'best' focus is going to be 1/2 in front and 1/2 behind the surface part of the flower you focus your lens on.

Knowing the above you now need to look at your flower and decide what you want to be most in focus

You say that you 'tried' to put the focus on the white-ish bump in the middle but do not say how. It is extremely unlikely that you would be able to use 'auto focus' on this shot because anywhere you place the 'focus point' box within it there will be both near and farther edges/surfaces, it will be confused and you will not know exactly what it has chosen to focus the lens on. For this reason you should use manual focus and adjust to get the the part you want sharpest. If your eyesight is reasonable there is absolutely no need to use Live view in my opinion.

Until such time as you are fully confident at getting focus exactly where you want it in these 'studio' conditions you should not be worrying about lighting and certainly not considering stacking.

So, to simplify, practice getting your focus as you want it and also seeing the affect of using apertures between lets say f/8 to f/25 until you are fully confident.

Once that is mastered, lighting comes next.

Grahame

Grahame...good advice as always coming from you. I do appreciate it very much...

Yes, I used a tripod as how can I operate a remote if I am also holding the camera. After coming home here from Oz, I decided to remove my wedding ring because it was too tight. I disengaged my knucklebone but it reset itself and the pain is most unbearable for I think a few days, went to see our doctor and she said 8 weeks. Dang! I have to use my tripod! for a while and practice/exercise my sore finger until it heals. Aleve does not work...

My lens is a 70-300mm with macro. What I did today was rotate my option to the P settings, looked at what it recommends, then took that recommendation to Manual and adjusted my settings from there + and - shots, looking at my histogram after each shots and also the highlights until I am satisfied with how it looks. I did not use live view as at the back of my camera is the zoom lens to zoom in and out of the image + and - to take a look at sharpness value...maybe it will be easier to use the live view, eh? I will try that one next time I go downstairs. I did not use my studio because the dining room has more lights and I also use a ring light for extra shine...

At first I was using auto-focus, but then I changed my mind and use the manual focus which is much better as I can control the sharpness, field of view and focal point from where to the flower itself. I hope I put this statement clearly though actually if I am reading this sentence it is not really clear to me...

Thank you for your advise...I had learned a lot from you...

As for your second post advise...the answer is no...very minimal crop from side to side just to make the stem goes at the corner of the frame. I just zoomed it to size it there as this is a flower and not a grandious landscape where I have to make sure that everything is viewable and enjoyable. Centering will not be a problem here unless otherwise I am showing only a port of the shot. I want the whole flower for now and learn from that one shot deal showing everything in focus but apparently, I need to learn how to focus stack first. Now that is off at the moment as I have not had good practice last year and left it at that...

As for taking a small shot, I did not think of that as I want to do it in camera if I can...but you have a point. I will practice on that..thank you.

[IzzieK]

Hi Izzie,

Some advice already given but I think we need to look at the fundamentals first in order to be most helpful for you.

Firstly, I will make the assumption that you are using the tripod in your studio, if not you are wasting your time

You need to understand that the DoF is going to be 'limited' and you are not going to be able to get the entire depth of the flower in focus. Knowing this you need to decide what aperture is going to give you the the 'best' you can get (lets ignore diffraction for now) and I would suggest you start with f/18. (This can be further discussed if we know what lens you are using).

You now need to appreciate that the depth of 'best' focus is going to be 1/2 in front and 1/2 behind the surface part of the flower you focus your lens on.

Knowing the above you now need to look at your flower and decide what you want to be most in focus

You say that you 'tried' to put the focus on the white-ish bump in the middle but do not say how. It is extremely unlikely that you would be able to use 'auto focus' on this shot because anywhere you place the 'focus point' box within it there will be both near and farther edges/surfaces, it will be confused and you will not know exactly what it has chosen to focus the lens on. For this reason you should use manual focus and adjust to get the the part you want sharpest. If your eyesight is reasonable there is absolutely no need to use Live view in my opinion.

Until such time as you are fully confident at getting focus exactly where you want it in these 'studio' conditions you should not be worrying about lighting and certainly not considering stacking.

So, to simplify, practice getting your focus as you want it and also seeing the affect of using apertures between lets say f/8 to f/25 until you are fully confident.

Once that is mastered, lighting comes next.

Grahame

Grahame...good advice as always coming from you. I do appreciate it very much...

Yes, I used a tripod as how can I operate a remote if I am also holding the camera. After coming home here from Oz, I decided to remove my wedding ring because it was too tight. I disengaged my knucklebone but it reset itself and the pain is most unbearable for I think a few days, went to see our doctor and she said 8 weeks. Dang! I have to use my tripod! for a while and practice/exercise my sore finger until it heals. Aleve does not work...

My lens is a 70-300mm with macro. What I did today was rotate my option to the P settings, looked at what it recommends, then took that recommendation to Manual and adjusted my settings from there + and - shots, looking at my histogram after each shots and also the highlights until I am satisfied with how it looks. I did not use live view as at the back of my camera is the zoom lens to zoom in and out of the image + and - to take a look at sharpness value...maybe it will be easier to use the live view, eh? I will try that one next time I go downstairs. I did not use my studio because the dining room has more lights and I also use a ring light for extra shine...

At first I was using auto-focus, but then I changed my mind and use the manual focus which is much better as I can control the sharpness, field of view and focal point from where to the flower itself. I hope I put this statement clearly though actually if I am reading this sentence it is not really clear to me...

Thank you for your advise...I had learned a lot from you...

As for your second post advise...the answer is no...very minimal crop from side to side just to make the stem goes at the corner of the frame. I just zoomed it to size it there as this is a flower and not a grandious landscape where I have to make sure that everything is viewable and enjoyable. Centering will not be a problem here unless otherwise I am showing only a port of the shot. I want the whole flower for now and learn from that one shot deal showing everything in focus but apparently, I need to learn how to focus stack first. Now that is off at the moment as I have not had good practice last year and left it at that...

As for taking a small shot, I did not think of that as I want to do it in camera if I can...but you have a point. I will practice on that..thank you.

[IzzieK]

Nice colours, Izzie.

You can download a Depth of Field calculator to your mobile phone, and then physically measure the distance from the front tip to the back petal to get an idea of what your settings need to be.

You remind me of my son saying that my cell is what the museums on phones wanted to buy off me so I can have an iphone...no I do not have an iphone. Mine is basic fliptop because I find it quiet and not reminding me of the many updates it does in the middle of the night. I had an iphone before and I was not happy with it. Actually it was an Samsung android and I can't find out where the mute button was so when it was time to upgrade, I downgraded instead. I am happy but nowadays after using it for sometime, I wanted another android because my eldest son makes software/apps for them and he cannot do any for me if I uses an ipad or an iphone. It has to be android. So I will soon might have it. I just have to work out my priorities first and get me some decent lens for my camera...first.

Thank you for your comment and critique. Really do appreciate it coming from you, too.

[IzzieK]

although I am the one who brought up stacking, I have to agree with Grahame that I was putting the cart in front of the horse, skipping over essential steps in between. I agree that learning to achieve close focus is step #1. In that light, a few suggestions:

......Izzie, I don't think you would have any need for an extension tube for that image. In general, if you don't need one, don't put one on. It will only make things harder. I never leave one on when doing flowers indoors. I do leave one on when chasing bugs because a 100mm lens + 36 mm extension is my default magnification for bugs.

Thank you again, Dan...that is what I was trying to achieve as I lost my tubes at customs but I tried it here and I think I need to zoom in some more next shot and do another angle. I like this flower that you did and I had looked at it and admired it first time you posted in and remembered. I just didn't remember it was you who posted this one when I was doing my image. It is most beautiful as well as your other shots. Love it...

[IzzieK]

Thank you Mike for your comment and critique...I will take this advice to hand and see what I can do as I lack the capability to focus stack at the moment as I had said before...hmmmm....farther shot to get it right then zooming in to crop. Yes and live view...I had not used it because I thought it is a waste of battery but if it helps, why not?

I do appreciate your comment here...I have learned a lot and so now, I have to go and take a look at other posts so i can help contribute to the CiC society my way...thanks again....

To add to the other comments, you will know before you release the shutter which parts of the subject will be in focus if you use Live View while displaying the image in the largest magnification. When it's not possible to get everything in focus, ensure that the absolutely most important part is in focus. When that hasn't happened, manually change the focus while using the magnified Live View display so that part indeed becomes in focus.

Then view the nearest and farthest part of the subject to determine whether both are in focus. If they are, every part of the subject will be in focus. However, it may not be possible to get everything in focus even when using the smallest aperture. If having everything in focus is important, move the subject farther away until everything is in focus or use focus-stacking procedures.

[Stagecoach]

Barbara when hubby give me his noddies to purchase that 150-500mm I will take all the advice you (and others) can give me on bird photography too...at the moment it is still in the midst of another sales pitch, ya know...the print of how much an equivalent is on a Nikon and the write up on the Sigma...so nothing concrete...yet. But I know I will get it -- either by prayer OR persuasion...

Hi Izzie,

I spotted this comment of yours to Barbara earlier regarding the 'birding lens' and feel I should comment

As someone that has followed the birding experts here for a long time and is now attempting to undertake this field of photography the one thing I have learnt from limited experience so far is that if I was not able to hand hold the present lens I use it would be extremely unlikely I would be able to capture any in-flight shots if the camera was on a tripod.

That is a big heavy lens, maybe worthwhile raising this on a new thread to get some expert views

[IzzieK]

Thanks Geoff I think it is late to kick the bucket now as while we were going towards the airport and I was waxing lyrics about how good this lens will be for my birthday even if I have to buy it myself...(..you know that guilt emotion kicker...) he suddenly said, now you are not giving me a chance to buy you a birthday present...

My fingers will heal and it has to be soon or I will use it with a wrist cast. I will not be forever on a tripod as a tripod is cumbersome, especially my heavy Manfrotto. I'll be careful...

I will borrow one for a week and see how I go. We are going to see some white swans soon at the Botanical gardens so I can test it there. I had only seen a white swan once and yesterday we passed by two of them at Town and Country so he said he can bring me to a place where there are some. We'll call tomorrow to check. I think it will be a good exercise for me to be able to hold the lens. If I don't like it, I can honestly say, I don't like it...just buy me my happy call pan and I will be happy...

Thanks for the warning...I do appreciate very much your advice and also other members here whom I had learned a lot too...