Hey Nikoneers, I'm about to buy my first speed light.

[Texas Dave]

...and I have a few questions.

I'm pretty much set on the Nikon SB-700. It seems to have most of the features I would need in the field and I like the remote features it has. It seems expensive but I guess when you compare it to the 900 it doesn't. Is that a marketing scheme or am I on track here?

Is there a proven, cheaper alternative? With the same quality of course.

Do speed lights have a flash life? I mean, is there a limit to the number of times they can flash?

...and my last question.

I have two elinchrom 500 BRX lights in the studio that I trigger remotely with the elinchrom skyport. Would I be able to add the new speed light into the mix and trigger it with either the skyport or my nikon's built in remote trigger?

[Mike Buckley]

People will be able to provide better advice once you provide the camera models you will use. That has to do with the use of Commander Mode (if your camera has it).

[Texas Dave]

Sorry Mike.

Yes, I have commander mode in both the d7100 and d810. I'm just not sure if I could synchronize two different types of flash.

I'm not sure if the commander mode works while the elinchrom skyport is attached. I need the nikon flash for out of the studio stuff, but I would love to have it for background flash in the studio working in conjunction with the elinchroms.

[Manfred M]

A number of people have written that some of the third party flashes by some of the Chinese manufacturers like Yongnuo or Phottix (there are a few more brands out there) offer much better value than the branded flashes. I have no personal experience, so cannot give a specific recommendation.

Any flash tube has a definite life, but that does vary by use. Shoot at full power a lot and run the flash so that it overheats frequently, that will give you a shorter life than one that is used more "gently". I expect flash life is going to be in the same order of magnitude as your camera's shutter. Yes it will wear out eventually, but so what...

I don't know the SB700 at all (I have the SB600 and SB900). The SB600 did not have optical slave capabilities, but the SB900 does, so check on that as I expect that you will need to go that route if you want to shoot with your Elinchroms. I don't think they offer a Speedlight module. I use PocketWizards, which let me use both together, but that is not something I've done yet in conjunction with my Einstein 640 units (I have 4 of those). I have thought about using then Speedlights as secondary accent lights (for instance put inside a lamp shade), but haven't actually done that yet. The power output from the speedlights is roughly an order of magnitude (10x) lower than the Einsteins.

I rarely shoot in Commander mode any more, so I'm not as picky on my trigger functionality as I used to be.

[rpcrowe]

I am pretty well set on always using OEM flashes. Although I shoot Canon, not Nikon, I would expect that the following is true with Nikon gear also.

When you have a problem using an OEM flash, you do not have the camera manufacturer and the flash manufacturer pointing fingers at each other and blaming the other for any problems.

Perhaps, that is not a valid concern. I cannot back it up with any hard data because, I have always used Canon flashes when shooting digital. However, I feel (emotionally) more secure using Canon flashes on Canon cameras. IMO, that emotional confidence is worth the extra cost.

One thing that I demand of my hotshoe flashes is high speed sync capability. Since I very frequently shoot outdoors with fill flash, I don't want to be constrained by having 1/250 second (on my 7D cameras - some other bodies have a 1/200 second) maximum sync speed. I often want to shoot wide open to control DOF and to do that I often need a faster shutter speed than 1/250th second. Many third party flashes do not have HSS capability. The top-line third party flashes that have HSS are often priced very close to their OEM counterparts.

I like Canon flashes in that when I have HSS selected and my selected shutter speed is at or slower than 1/250 second, the flash will automatically revert to standard sync so no light is lost. I don't know if Nikon flashes have this capability but, I always leave my Canon flashes on HSS. That way, I select standard sync or HSS by selecting my shutter speed.

BTW: I was at a Canon flash seminar in which the "expert" who was presenting the seminar did not know about the flash reverting to standard sync when the shutter speed was at or below the maximum camera sync speed. In fact, he challenged me on that. Luckily the seminar was being given in a camera store which had a copy of a Canon flash manual. He ended up with egg on his face. THE OLD DEFINITION OF AN EXPERT: Someone from out of town who has a slide projector!

[Venser]

I don't know the SB700 at all (I have the SB600 and SB900). The SB600 did not have optical slave capabilities, but the SB900 does, so check on that as I expect that you will need to go that route if you want to shoot with your Elinchroms.

The SB700 does have optical slave capabilities.
There's a sensor above the battery door that's round, if you aim that towards another flash/strobe going off, it'll fire this unit if it's in SU-4 mode. You don't need any additional hardware to trigger this.

Canon claims to have optical capabilities, but only works within their system. It is not the same thing. With Nikon, it simply needs another bright thing going off to trigger itself.

[Venser]

I'm pretty much set on the Nikon SB-700.

It's a fantastic speedlight. I have two SB-910s and four SB-700s.

Anecdotal story coming up, but when I first started with light units I picked up a SB-700. Once I started to get proficient with it I realized there's so much you can do with a second light. So I picked up another SB-700. And the story continues to six. Even after picking up the SB-910s, I frequently use the SB-700s. They never go bad (minus bulb failures), but you know what I'm implying.

[Texas Dave]

SOLD! SB-700 it is, and if the optical trigger works like I hope it will, I'll be a happy camper!

By the way, when you mentioned bulb failure, if I do have a bulb failure, is that something they can replace/fix?

[Venser]

SOLD! SB-700 it is, and if the optical trigger works like I hope it will, I'll be a happy camper!

Can you explain further? I have lots of experience with the SB units and can probably answer your questions.

By the way, when you mentioned bulb failure, if I do have a bulb failure, is that something they can replace/fix?

I'll say yes, but I have zero experience with a bulb failing. I don't see why it can't be done, but the question then becomes "how much will it be?" I have a hunch that picking up a new unit will be roughly the ballpark number.

[Manfred M]

SOLD! SB-700 it is, and if the optical trigger works like I hope it will, I'll be a happy camper!

By the way, when you mentioned bulb failure, if I do have a bulb failure, is that something they can replace/fix?

The bulb not user replaceable, so it would have to go in to Nikon for repairs. I don't see any life ratings on the bulb itself on the spec sheet, so I would not be too concerned. I've had both my units for at least 4 years and haven't run into any issues (yet).

[Texas Dave]

You guys are an AWESOME resource! Thank you all so very much!

[shreds]

I would echo that regards the life of the units (I have a SB800 & SB900 amongst my collection of flash units, - the 900 having never had any of the overheating problems I hasten too add).

Nikon service centres are very good in my UK experience. I had a battery unit swapped out and that was viable as the unit was newish and it was worthwhile.

I do however agree that if it reached the point where the flash tube needs replacing, the equivalent new flash gun will likely be little more in cost. However I have not destroyed any of my Nikon guns yet in around ten years of shooting with them, so its not really a significant concern in my book.

Triggers....I nowadays only use Pocket Wizards. Awesome and reliable.

[Venser]

Triggers....I nowadays only use Pocket Wizards. Awesome and reliable.

And expensive. But with that cost you get reliability and compatibility. Pocket Wizard hasn't changed their standard in eons. If you have the newest Pocket Wizard III, they're entirely compatible with the original Pocket Wizard from 1990; they will work together. Other companies cannot lay claim to the same. It's one of those things where I pay a premium today in hopes of saving money down the road.

[inkista]

Is there a proven, cheaper alternative? With the same quality of course.

No. There are proven cheaper alternatives that are lower quality, tho. Depends on your usage whether or not they night fulfill the needs.

The main thing to consider is that some of these 3rd party alternatives have some better feature sets for off-camera use. Like a PC sync port. Or a built-in radio receiver. But overall, I wouldn't look at them if the SB-700 is what you want. Go look for a Metz, Nissin, Phottix Mitros, Godox V850, or Yongnuo 560 if you get around to buying more speedlights for exclusive off-camera usage. The SB-700 is going to have a better realiability, warranty. and resale value than any of the 3rd parties.

I have two elinchrom 500 BRX lights in the studio that I trigger remotely with the elinchrom skyport. Would I be able to add the new speed light into the mix and trigger it with either the skyport or my nikon's built in remote trigger?

Yes, and no. Yes, it'll work with a Skyport attached, but the SB-700 has no PC sync port, so you'll probably have to get a hotshoe adapter. The built-in CLS slave of the SB-700 won't be useful to you here, because your studio strobes don't speak CLS. But you can use the SU-4 "dumb" optical slave mode in the SB-700, just as you would the optical slaves on the 500 BRXs, as was mentioned above.

You can use the built-in CLS slave if your camera body has a commander in the pop-up flash, and that will get you goodies like off-camera iTTL, FP/HSS, and the ability to set the power on the remote flash from the camera. But, of course, will suffer all the drawbacks of optical slaving (line-of-sight, range in bright light, etc.)

Canon claims to have optical capabilities, but only works within their system. It is not the same thing. With Nikon, it simply needs another bright thing going off to trigger itself.

This is the single dumbest thing EVER about Canon's flashes. Period. Because either the wireless eTTL slave or the external sensor have all the hardware eeded to make a dumb slave mode possible. [shakes head]. OTOH. It's not like Nikon's got a model with RF flash triggering built-in. Then again, it was more important for Canon to build radio TTL into their flashes because...

Re: PocketWizards

And expensive. But with that cost you get reliability and compatibility.

Welllll... unless you're a Canon shooter with a Flex TT5 you're trying to use with 430EX, 580EX, or 580EXIIs. I know a bunch of Canon folks on the POTN board who switched to the 600EX-RTs simply because of the PW radio interference issues. And it's not like PW can switch frequencies because...

Pocket Wizard hasn't changed their standard in eons. If you have the newest Pocket Wizard III, they're entirely compatible with the original Pocket Wizard from 1990; they will work together. Other companies cannot lay claim to the same.

Nope. Certainly not to the longevity (and thus resale value) of the system as a whole. OTOH, there are other 3rd party radio trigger companies that take the same approach in making all their triggers compatible with each other, such as RadioPopper and Phottix. Phottix in particular has grabbed some mindshare of late by releasing the Indra, a TTL/HSS-capable studio strobe that has an Odin receivers built in, and inter-operates just fine in TTL/HSS/remote power control in concert with TTL speedlights using Odin triggers. Not even a Profoto/Air combo does that.

The times they are a'changin'.

It's one of those things where I pay a premium today in hopes of saving money down the road.

Hope it works out for you. Right now, with the way there's churn'n'burn on features and flash/trigger models, it looks like a shakeup overall is happening in terms of flash radio triggering. PocketWizard should hopefully withstand all of it, but they used to have a monopoly. It's easy to be king of the hill when nobody else wants the hill you're on. I'm not sure any of us can really predict who's coming out of this one on top. Their rumored layoff last year was not a good sign.

I figure the day Sekonic decides to go back to a trigger/module port on their meters and publishes the schematics so 3rd parties can build their own, is the day we know PW might not be the king of the hill any longer.

[Texas Dave]

Kathy, guys, I just purchased the SB-700. ...and my head is about to explode!

Let's keep things simple for the moment, I just got back with my NEW SB-700 and I'm currently trying to figure it out. I was able to get it to fire along with my elinchroms via the SU-4 dumb optical slave but I realize quickly it is pretty much a "line of sight" trigger. I did have the elinchroms turn to their lowest setting though. So far, so good but I see limits here.

I'm going through a heck of a learning curve that the moment just learning the terminology. This is my first experience with a speed light so pardon any elementary questions.

I'm shooting with a d810.

Is it possible to fire the SB700 remotely WITHOUT firing the camera's built-in flash?

By the way, I really hate those little nikon instruction books!

[Mike Buckley]

Is it possible to fire the SB700 remotely WITHOUT firing the camera's built-in flash?

Not if you're using Commander mode and if your cameras work the same as my D7000. However, add this inexpensive device to your hot shoe and the part of the flash's light that is visible to the human eye will be blocked, allowing the infrared part to be sent to your remote SB700. That device lives on my camera any time I'm working in my makeshift studio but that's only because of the relatively close working space and the highly reflective glass subjects that would otherwise reflect the visible light.

[Mike Buckley]

By the way, I wonder if you noticed that you'll configure the Commander mode not to fire the built-in flash. Even so, the pre-flashes will fire. The device I mentioned above blocks the visible light portion of those pre-flashes.

[Texas Dave]

By the way, I wonder if you noticed that you'll configure the Commander mode not to fire the built-in flash. Even so, the pre-flashes will fire. The device I mentioned above blocks the visible light portion of those pre-flashes.

Yeah Mike, I just pulled my head out for a little air and figured it out. I think you figured out what I was doing as I was doing it.

With the TTL on



Results,


...and with it off.


results, (there's no image to preview so you're seeing the back of my iPhone case, except for a small reflect from the flashlight lens.


I wasn't believing what I was seeing. Every time I fired it, I though the built in flash was still 100%. I didn't realize it was just signaling the remote. All this while the SB700 was firing but I had it pointing the other directions just to convince myself.

I feel somewhat accomplished now. I appreciate y'alls efforts and patients! Seriously.

[Mike Buckley]

Exactly. You won't need the little device that is placed on the hot shoe if the pre-flashes are not being reflected in your scene.

[Texas Dave]

I think I'm in business on this end!

I just figure out that the elinchroms have flash recognition with pre-flash syncing. Sync once and they remember the pre flash sequence from the SB700 and so far they seem to have better optical slave capabilities. Judging by my moving around with the sb700 in my hand trying to trick them.

I can't stop smiling!