How best to start with Off Camera Flash

[TheBigE]

All,

I am looking at taking a course to help work on my use of the SB-700 Speedlight. I have used it some and I am fairly comfortable with the flash on the camera, and by no means do I have it mastered. This is why I am considering taking the online course.

One of the requirements for the course is to be able to fire the flash off camera. Given that my D5300 does not have commander mode with the pop up flash, what is the best way to start? I can see a couple of options

1. TTL Cable - No Nikon Branded. Given that most cables are almost half that of a SC 28. Is this a branding issue or perhaps a functionality issue? I would rather buy once and buy well, where needed.

2. TTL Cable - Nikon SC 28. I have comfort that it will work and could be the only thing I need to get started.

3. Remote Flash Kit - Again, not sure this is the best option to start and one more path to consider. I see PocketWizard as a starting point. I will admit that I have considered this as a option.

Any recommendations? Would others do it different?

If my gut is anything to follow, I am ever so slightly leaning toward option 2 above.

Thanks for your help.

[Donald]

If my gut is anything to follow, I am ever so slightly leaning toward option 2 above.

I agree.

At this stage of your devcelopment in using flash, I think that is the right option. If and when you want to develop this further, then you can start looking at option 3.

[dasmith232]

I approached it by getting a TTL cable to move the flash off-axis. (In my case it was Canon, but it really doesn't make a difference.) Some things I found helpful:

• get the flash off camera, using a TTL cable, but shoot in manually-set flash power. A non-TTL cable has only the center pin and will fire the flash with no control other than *when* the flash fires. The reason for the TTL cable is to be able to set power level, curtain sync, etc from the camera without having to walk back-and-forth between the camera and flash.
• Short TTL cables should be coiled, long cables should be straight. Short cables are good for flash brackets or when working in close proximity for things like macro. If you're going to move the flash any distance away, then coiled cables just make it harder to take advantage of that length. Also, a straight cable will drop to the floor and be less of a tripping hazard than coiled. My short (and coiled) cable is OEM branded. My long cable is a 3rd party, but quality (not an import knock off). I went to "ocfgear.com" for my ~30' (~10m) long cable.
• really get used to the idea that flash power and flash distance are really closely related.
  
  • flash power is in fractions, which nicely correspond to stops (brighter or darker)
  • distance follows the same numbering scheme as aperture. Many people don't realize this. If your flash unit is 2.8 feet away, then moving it to 4 ft (and keeping power constant) will make the flash one stop darker. It doesn't matter what units you use (feet, miles, inches); the numbering follows the aperture numbers.
• very soon after moving the flash off camera, you'll want to diffuse the light. I've bought umbrellas, small softboxes and large softboxes. Only the large softboxes ever get any use for me.

[Manfred M]

Erik - I have the SC 28 and SC 29. I pretty well use them only when I am shooting with my Stroboframe or am hand holding the Speedlight in one hand and the camera in the other. While Nikon is technically correct in suggesting that the cord is 9' / 2.5m long one has to realize that not all of this length is usable as it is a coiled cord that becomes a bit like an spring as you stretch it, with an inherent desire to snap back. This limits its usefulness.

You really have five options:

1. SC28 or SC29 (or a clone with the same functionality). The main difference between the two units is that the SC 29 has LED lights built in (just like the Speedlights) to help illuminate your subject. The main advantage of going this route is that you can use the integrated TTL metering when shooting.

To me, this is probably very important when first learning to shoot flash. Depending on the shooting situation, I will use either TTL or 100% manual. Manual is something every Speedlight shooter should learn, in time.

2. Standard synch cable (2-wire) with adapter on both your flash and camera (I suspect that the D5300 does not have one and I don't know about the SB700; the SB600 does not have one, but the SB900 does). Synch cables are relatively inexpensive and can be much longer than the SC28 / SC29 cords. The adapters are quite inexpensive as well, but you would have to shoot 100% manual.

The cables can be quite the tripping hazard, so be extremely careful when using them.

3. Use the D5300 internal flash to fire the optical slave function on the SB700. i believe that the SB700 has this functionality, but you will have to deal with light from two flashes, which is hardly ideal. This solution won't work in bright areas as the optical slave method needs sufficient light and its sensor needs to be able to pick up the flash from your D5300. On the other hand, you have all the equipment already, so this is a no-cost solution.

4. Buy another Speedlight (one that can be used as a Commander) and use it to trigger the off-camera flash. This is not an inexpensive solution, and needs the right lighting conditions (not too bright and line of sight contact). This solution supports both TTL and manual modes.

5. External triggers - there are a number of these around. I happen to use PocketWizards, because they are the most flexible ones for my personal needs. I can't comment on how well the less expensive alternatives work, especially for TTL metering (they likely do not support this). I have both the FlexTT5 transceivers that mount the flashes on and a MiniTT1 transmitter I use on the camera. I also use a AC3 Zone controller that mounts on the MiniTt1 (orFlexTT5) and allows me to change the output on the Speedlights right from the camera (either fully via TTL or manual modes, including High Speed Synch functionality).

This is a fairly expensive solution and you need one radio trigger for the camera and one for each flash. This is what I use and I would not use anything else.

PocketWizard has a number of manual triggers (Plus X and Plus III), which are less expensive, but are really best left to Studio flash, which are 100% manual.

Most of my Speedlight off-camera work involves a light stand, umbrella (shoot through / reflector types) and an adjustable umbrella holder. I use my much larger studio flash with softboxes when I don't need the portability.

[William W]

I also would choose option #2. Buying a quality TTL Off Camera Cord and keeping it forever, will not go astray in the kit bag.

But before committing money, I suggest that you find out another (possible) requirement of the course - HOW FAR (distance) off-camera, is the flash to be located.

I have no idea how long are the Nikon Off Camera Cords. Canon make a very short curly one, I have a couple of them. If one is workshop dextrous, it is possible to make a cut in the Off Camera Cord and make up DYI extension cables. I did that. Computer / communications jack & plugs are handy to use as the connectors for the extension pieces.

Alternatively, if necessary, you could just try an off-brand longer cord – but the Canon ones I have seen don’t have the same weight and quality of workmanship in the CAMERA HOT-SHOE end of the lead, that's why I didn't buy those, but choose to make my own extension leads; but I can’t comment first hand on the Nikon ‘off-brand’ cords.

WW

[Loose Canon]

Top drawer advice here Erik.

So I’ll just mention a couple of things I have run into in my experience.

Coiled cable. Don’t do it. Unless, as Dave mentioned, you are just going to use a flash bracket. Not only do they pose a real hazard, but they can actually re-coil and pull over a light stand when stretched out. Unless you are using bomb-proof C stands or have everything sand-bagged down (which really you should anyway) you have to be so careful that it makes it a real pain to have another thing like that to have to worry about. If you go the cable route, do yourself a favor and take Dave’s advice and go to ocfgear and look there for a straight cable. They will do the same thing and for about the same price (or less). I have a couple of these cables and can vouch.

I really hate being a nay-sayer on this but I feel I have no choice. I can’t, in good faith, recommend depending on optical triggering.

Reliance on optical triggering is going to result in heartache and misery at some point. And it probably won’t take long to do either. It’s there. It looks good in theory, and works in some limited cases. But in the real world not so much and I just can’t see why one would want to invest in lighting and then limit one’s self to those few scenarios where it (may) work. Maybe it’s just me but I want my lighting to work when and where I want/need it to work. Not just when a lot of happy (and mostly for me impossible) conditions are met.

So to start with one light, a (straight) sync cable is a great entry. Relatively low cost and dependable. You can spend your time worrying and fussing over your lighting instead of why your flash is misfiring. If you really get into using your light and want to add more, you are most likely going to have to move to RF triggers. No worries because it’s always cool to have a back-up (cable).

We already have one member who is presently finding this out. I made a comment regarding my experience with optical triggering in another of his threads.

So, enough of the preaching! Just FYI I use Phottix Odin RF triggers for my 580EXII’s. They do everything a PW will (incl. but not limited to ttl, flash compensation in 1/3 stop increments, and curtain assignment), make a Nikon version, and for less $$. Been very happy with them and can count on less than one hand all the misfires I’ve had with them. I got them at the time because the Pocket Wizards had interference issues with these particular Canon lights and I didn’t want to deal with that. These days there are other options out there that are getting a great rap and worth looking at.

About the best thing I could say is have fun with your light Erik! I think you will find using it a very cool aspect of photography!

[D L]

I have one of these 3rd party TTL cables and it works just fine. Quality seems good to me. As comments note above, it is too short to get your flash more than about 1m from your hot shoe.

Have you been to strobist.com? If you only want to fire manual off camera, David Hobby recommends starting out with these "universal translator" hot shoe adaptors that can adapt to PC cable or a cable with 3.5mm plugs. You can then get a cheap cable with 3.5mm plugs on each end, almost however long you want.

Here is my experience with 3rd party wireless triggers. I have Yongnuo TTL controller and transceiver on Nikon (YN-622N-TX and YN-622N). Others users don't necessarily have this problem, but I find it "quirky" at best, in TTL mode. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes I get a high percentage of misfires, and others it just doesn't seem to meter correctly. I resort to using it in manual mode, partially defeating the purpose of buying a TTL wireless trigger. It does allow manual control remotely and works perfectly in this mode. Wireless manual triggering from Yongnuo, Cactus and others quite well regarded among users. I get good function with wireless manual control.

I guess what I'm saying is, something easy to reverse engineer, like a cable, is probably ok to go for 3rd party. Once you go the other end of the spectrum, with wireless TTL flash control, you probably have to strongly consider pocketwizards.

The hard part is working out whether you even need wireless TTL to begin with.

Edit: Oh yeah, Phottix, I forgot about them. And they do TTL well? Good to know, thanks Terry.

[Loose Canon]

Oh yeah, Phottix, I forgot about them. And they do TTL well?

Yes. I’ve been very happy with them all around David.

Sometimes it works fine, sometimes I get a high percentage of misfires, and others it just doesn't seem to meter correctly.

The triggers themselves don’t meter anything.

They relay the control signal from the camera hot shoe to the remote unit.

[rpcrowe]

I have two different off-camera cords for my Canon DSLR Cameras and my Canon xxxEX Speedlites.

My first cord was the Canon Off Camera Sync Cord MkI (or the first issue of that cord from Canon).

My second cord is a Calumet Off Camera Sync Cord for Canon. I had loaned the Canon cord to my Son-in-Law who was on a trip and had need of a cord myself, so I purchased the Calumet Cord from the Calumet store which was located 10-minutes from my house (unfortunately this store has ceased operation).

Both the cords work equally well and I like the Calumet Cord a bit better. It has weather sealing and the same type of lever hotshoe clamp as is on my Canon 600EX RT Speedlite. I am pretty sure that it is a copy of the Canon MkII cord.

I like having two cords since of all camera gear, sync cords are IMO the most vulnerable to failure during normal use and are exceptionally prone to failure with rough use.

B&H has the Canon OEM OC-E3 cord for $69.95. There are Chinese copies on eBay ranging from $9.00 with free shipping.

If I were seeking a cord for my Canon gear, I would be prone to purchase two eBay cords at $9.00 each and take my chances. I would bet that two Chinese cords would last at least as long as one OEM cord...

[D L]

The triggers themselves don’t meter anything.

They relay the control signal from the camera hot shoe to the remote unit.

Yes, that may have been confusingly stated. My yongnuo triggers don't necessarily correctly relay the correct signals at some point in the process. It manifests as mis-timed or incorrect power output, but nothing to do with my camera's ability to meter the TTL pre-flash. Apologies for the confusion.

[Venser]

3. Use the D5300 internal flash to fire the optical slave function on the SB700. i believe that the SB700 has this functionality, but you will have to deal with light from two flashes, which is hardly ideal. ...

The SB700 does have this functionality.

4. Buy another Speedlight (one that can be used as a Commander) and use it to trigger the off-camera flash. This is not an inexpensive solution, and needs the right lighting conditions (not too bright and line of sight contact). This solution supports both TTL and manual modes.

One light is often enough, but more never hurt.

5. External triggers - there are a number of these around. I happen to use PocketWizards, because they are the most flexible ones for my personal needs. I can't comment on how well the less expensive alternatives work, especially for TTL metering (they likely do not support this). I have both the FlexTT5 transceivers that mount the flashes on and a MiniTT1 transmitter I use on the camera. I also use a AC3 Zone controller that mounts on the MiniTt1 (orFlexTT5) and allows me to change the output on the Speedlights right from the camera (either fully via TTL or manual modes, including High Speed Synch functionality).

This is a fairly expensive solution and you need one radio trigger for the camera and one for each flash. This is what I use and I would not use anything else.

PocketWizard has a number of manual triggers (Plus X and Plus III), which are less expensive, but are really best left to Studio flash, which are 100% manual.

I use the Plus III both as a remote trigger for my camera and my flash units. After using different triggers over the years, these are easily the most reliable units out there. I only use my speedlights in manual mode so not having TTL isn't problematic.

The Plus X's can't be used as a remote trigger and flash trigger simultaneously. (Pretty sure this is correct)

[TheBigE]

Thanks everyone for the great advice and solid input. I really think at this point, a Nikon SC 28 Cable is the best place for me to start...then afterwards move into either a non coiled cable or wireless trigger.

As some have said, having a cable in my bag is not a bad investment and can always be used in the future. I am hoping that the Flash Course gives me some good insight and a solid foundation to grow. Given the other course I have taken that are similar I am hopeful this will be true.

[loosecanon]

The hotshoe flash is one of those connections that would be completely redesigned if starting from scratch, something Mintola tried to do, and Sony have given up on.
The major reason for flash failure, and failure of remote systems, is poor contact. It is very easy for a little movement in the shoe to result in poor contact for one contact of the many added by maunfacturers.
So the key is make sure the shoe is properly inserted, and tightened, and keep checking through the photo session. This is especially so when one develops a chain of connections.

[Loose Canon]

I would have to agree with this Yes.

So far, every mis-fire I have had with any connected triggering system has been attributable to a faulty connection.

Thank God because that is easier and quicker to fix than a faulty unit!

I should probably go over to the Pet Peeves thread and add “equipment failures”!

I think this is especially relevant in this case if considering a cable that is essentially a coiled spring. There is always going to be tension on that coiled spring that will stress the connection and the cable. The more the stretch, the more the stress.

[William W]

. . . So the key is make sure the shoe is properly inserted, and tightened, and keep checking through the photo session. This is especially so when one develops a chain of connections.

Gaffer's tape.

WW

[Loose Canon]

So far, every mis-fire I have had with any connected triggering system has been attributable to a faulty connection.

I rescind that!

There have been a couple of dead battery affairs along the way!

[h2daddy]

Having just got back into photography, I wanted to start a little slow, ie: cheaper. So, as far as flash is concerned I got the Yongnuo YN-622N-TX and YN-622N along with a YN-565EX speedflash. I have never personally noticed any lag or misfires but, I don't do a lot of continuous flash shots. I think for the money, and the learning curve, it's an excellent alternative to other more expensive rigs for starting out. Unless you're a professional or studio photographer, this set up is more than acceptable.

[jcuknz]

Since decades ago I tried to use cables for multiple flash in a studio and gave it away because it was unreliable so I'd suggest forget the course which likely will cost a bomb and go to B&H for this
It costs $20
Fits under the flash and works by sensing the camera's flash which can be part of the lighting set-up or shielded from the subject with a little amount escaping to work the trigger.
This is 'old tech' for me because I bought YungNuo units which have built in triggers but I have several lying around.

If you do want to use the camera on-board as a fill light to the remote flash acting as the key light and it is a bit on the strong and overpowering then you can cut the strength of the on-board in the menu or else, quicker, just hold your finger to obstruct part of the on-board.

It could be fun to use the SB-700 on the camera and a YN as your key at no more than most of your listed options would cost you
Also you could read this and this as an introduction ...the on-board was just used as a trigger source with a optical trigger at the flash. In my case a 20yo flash with a sync cable and hood to give control.

The optical trigger is slightly different to that suggested to suit your SB-700 and with its suction pad stuck on the flash unit. The cardboard 'snoot' had a window cut in it so the single light did two jobs Key light and background light. Although the model used was rather small the flash was place far enough back so I could have been using a full sized human

[dasmith232]

...the Yongnuo YN-622N-TX and YN-622N ... Unless you're a professional or studio photographer, this set up is more than acceptable.

I use the 622's even for pro work! I've been really happy with it and have never had a single misfire. I ended up getting 4 of the transceivers plus the transmitter, which gives me options and redundancy.