Going Against The Flow

[rpcrowe]

It is generally assumed that a photographer needs a very expensive tripod. I will agree that a to get a very versatile, and very sturdy tripod that is also lightweight, especially one that is constructed from Carbon Fiber, that tripod is going to set you back a bundle. (BTW: Carbon fiber has advantages in addition to its relatively light weight).

However, if you can do without the versatility (for example using a tripod that will not articulate), and are willing and able to carry a bit more weight; it is possible to get a tripod on the used market for which you will not have to sell your first born child to afford...

In the days of film photography, many of the Navy Photographers depended on Leitz Tiltall tripods. I worked with these tripods and mounted 4x5 inch view cameras and press cameras upon them, I also used the Mamiya RB67 and the Pentax 6x7 which were not as large as the 4x5 inch cameras but were still a hefty weight. The Tiltall did a fine job. Granted, the 4x5 inch view cameras and the Mamiya RB-67 had revolving backs so you did not need to hang the camera cantilevered over on its side to shoot verticals. I have noticed some Leitz TiltAll tripods selling for around $125 - used. There are TiltAll (Type) tripods now distributed under the Star-D brand. I have no idea of their quality. I have only used the original Leitz models. BTW: I have never come across any Leitz branded gear that was not of very good quality!

Bogen-Manfrotto distributed a group of quite decent aluminum tripods which were sturdy, but not very light. There were the 30xx series and included the 3001, the 3011 and the 3021. Although, they did not articulate, if equipped with decent heads, they were quite sturdy camera mounts. Used Manfrotto 30xx leg sets are quite often available on eBay for a hundred U.S. Dollars or less. Sometimes you can find these pods with heads included for right around $100 or bit more.

Here is an example of a used Manfrotto 3021 tripod with a 3047 head.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bogen-by-Man...item2a503edf9e

This tripod is selling for $93.00 including shipping within the USA.

Before I purchased my full size Giottos Carbon Fiber MT-8180 with Arca Compatible Ball head I had used a Manfrotto 3001 Pro tripod for years. It was not as versatile as the Giottos but, it was still a very decent tripod and here's one selling for $124 USD with head and shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-30...item5d5864dde6

Are the above tripods equal to a top-line carbon fiber model? No, very likely not; especially in the versatility gained from the ability to articulate and the light weight. A good ball head is another advantage with better tripods - but ball heads can be used on Manfrotto leg sets also. However, will any of the above tripods support a digital camera with a reasonably long lens? Yes they will. Quite adequately.

Purchasing one of the above (type) tripods, used, and then wanting to upgrade after a couple of years would not be a big problem, because you could always resell that first tripod without taking a great financial beating.

[wilgk]

Thankyou Richard, for the time taken to give us this detailed info & links.
I'm sure many will find it informative & helpful either now or sometime soon.

[Loose Canon]

Good stuff Richard.

I thought I saw a question or two regarding tripods in the Forum right now. Maybe they will see this.

[Acorn]

It is generally assumed that a photographer needs a very expensive tripod. I will agree that a to get a very versatile, and very sturdy tripod that is also lightweight, especially one that is constructed from Carbon Fiber, that tripod is going to set you back a bundle. (BTW: Carbon fiber has advantages in addition to its relatively light weight).

However, if you can do without the versatility (for example using a tripod that will not articulate), and are willing and able to carry a bit more weight; it is possible to get a tripod on the used market for which you will not have to sell your first born child to afford...

In the days of film photography, many of the Navy Photographers depended on Leitz Tiltall tripods. I worked with these tripods and mounted 4x5 inch view cameras and press cameras upon them, I also used the Mamiya RB67 and the Pentax 6x7 which were not as large as the 4x5 inch cameras but were still a hefty weight. The Tiltall did a fine job. Granted, the 4x5 inch view cameras and the Mamiya RB-67 had revolving backs so you did not need to hang the camera cantilevered over on its side to shoot verticals. I have noticed some Leitz TiltAll tripods selling for around $125 - used. There are TiltAll (Type) tripods now distributed under the Star-D brand. I have no idea of their quality. I have only used the original Leitz models. BTW: I have never come across any Leitz branded gear that was not of very good quality!

Bogen-Manfrotto distributed a group of quite decent aluminum tripods which were sturdy, but not very light. There were the 30xx series and included the 3001, the 3011 and the 3021. Although, they did not articulate, if equipped with decent heads, they were quite sturdy camera mounts. Used Manfrotto 30xx leg sets are quite often available on eBay for a hundred U.S. Dollars or less. Sometimes you can find these pods with heads included for right around $100 or bit more.

Here is an example of a used Manfrotto 3021 tripod with a 3047 head.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bogen-by-Man...item2a503edf9e

This tripod is selling for $93.00 including shipping within the USA.

Before I purchased my full size Giottos Carbon Fiber MT-8180 with Arca Compatible Ball head I had used a Manfrotto 3001 Pro tripod for years. It was not as versatile as the Giottos but, it was still a very decent tripod and here's one selling for $124 USD with head and shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-30...item5d5864dde6

Are the above tripods equal to a top-line carbon fiber model? No, very likely not; especially in the versatility gained from the ability to articulate and the light weight. A good ball head is another advantage with better tripods - but ball heads can be used on Manfrotto leg sets also. However, will any of the above tripods support a digital camera with a reasonably long lens? Yes they will. Quite adequately.

Purchasing one of the above (type) tripods, used, and then wanting to upgrade after a couple of years would not be a big problem, because you could always resell that first tripod without taking a great financial beating.

A lot of good sense here. During the 1980's I purchased a Manfrotto Pro aluminium tripod (I don't think carbon fibre tripods were then on the market) and still have it. It is, of course, heavier than today's carbon fibre models, but is rock steady in severe windy conditions and I would not be without it. It's had a Sinar, Hasselblad and various Nikons mounted on it without any problem and long 500mm lenses too. Pictures have always been razor sharp.

[DanK]

Richard,

A nice counterbalancing of the argument that we often hear that it is a mistake not to buy a very expensive tripod right off the bat. As someone who uses a carbon fiber tripod, I would add that any lightweight tripod has disadvantages under some circumstances.

From my experience, however, I would offer two friendly amendments:

If you want the light weight and other advantages of carbon fiber--I did, because I haul my gear on long hikes, and my back isn't what it used to be--you can buy very good carbon fiber legs for a small fraction of the price of the top brands. I have been using an Oben carbon fiber tripod (the B&H store brand, I think) for several years, and it's fine. I actually went to B&H to look at tripods weeks before I picked it, and I saw quite a number of good tripods from other manufacturers for similar prices. I ended up picking the Oben over others on the basis of specific features. (By the way, if you are in Manhattan sometime other than late Friday through Saturday and have a free hour or two, a trip to B&H is worth it, if you can resist the temptation of having every photographic toy you might ever want all in one place.)

I think the tradeoffs are different with heads. In fact, I just caved in and replaced my inexpensive ball head with a Markins. I certainly could have made do with the cheaper one, but there really is a noticeable difference in how well the two are designed and how well they function. My view is that for many people, splurging on the head will have more payoff than splurging on the legs. And if you every upgrade your legs, you can take the head with you.

[Thlayle]

Richard, thanks for sharing your observations. As an amateur photographer, I live within a strict budget & just don't want to get up in collecting gear. I have been using a similar Manfroto tripod for the past three years & it suits my purposes fine, even for night shooting where I need a very stable base (I add a weight if I am ever in doubt). But then my gear kit is pretty modest and I am not putting a lot of weight on my tripod.

On the carbon fiber: can you (or anyone) say what is the primary benefit to those? Is it the weight to strength ratio? If so, at what point is there a clear advantage to the carbon fiber? Everything I have seen or heard about the cost of them makes me think it is better to just carry the extra couple of pounds of weight. After all, so far when I have gone to remote locations to shoot, a larger tripod, no matter what the weight, simply will not pack well enough for me, given I am out most times not just to shoot but for other purposes.

[DanK]

Is it the weight to strength ratio?

Yes, primarily that, and also less prone to carrying vibrations.

[Manfred M]

Totally agree with you Dan.

The main advantage of carbon fibre is lower weight. A secondary advantage is that it damps out vibrations more quickly than aluminum. That's really it.

So, if you are shooting in a studio or around the house, it likely makes little financial sense to invest in carbon fibre legs, as the alternatives will cost you a lot less and the lighter weight really isn't all that important.

I, on the other hand, am like you and haul my gear all over the place. If I can get there by car and am not walking too far when I get there, I take my heavy duty tripod (and might even drag along some sandbags). If I am flying somewhere and have to carry it, I take one of my smaller ones, even though they are "not as good".

[dasmith232]

My "main" tripod is exactly what you cited above: 3021 legs and 3047 head. My dad (and frequent photo trip partner) bought the same setup. When he passed away, I inherited his. (This worked out nicely because the head joint on one finally broke and now I still have a working setup.)

I've (finally!) learned that the idea of a single, perfect tripod is like the idea of a single, perfect lens. Uh, no, it doesn't work that way. So now, I have my walk-around tripod which is much more lightweight, plus has articulating motions that I don't get with my heavy rig. Also, I have a (good quality, Manfrotto) table-top tripod and a few others.

The point is, there are advantages that vary among tripod designs and having more than one is a reasonable thing. (Maybe I'm just trying to rationalize myself! )

[rpcrowe]

Dave mentioned. "I've (finally!) learned that the idea of a single, perfect tripod is like the idea of a single, perfect lens."

I have several tripods along with several different types of camera bags. Each is good for its intended purpose...

My main tripod is a Giottos 8180 Carbon Fiber model which has been discontinued. It is rock solid and can articulate. Although relatively lightweight for its steadiness, height and ability to articulate, it is at almost 8-pounds (with head) a bit more than I desire to take boonie tromping.

My boonie tromping tripod is the SLICK PRO 330DX which I modified by replacing the longer center column with an optional shorter (and lighter weight column) as well as replacing the heavy stock Pan-Tilt head with an Adorama Flashpoint F-1 Magnesium, ball head with an Arca Compatible clamp. This rig weighs just over one kilogram (2.2 pounds) yet can support my DSLR with 70-200mm f/4L IS lens. This image shows the difference between the full size Giotos NT8180 and my modified Slik Pro 330DX.



Here is the difference in the two ball heads with Arca Compatible clamps.



I also have a table-top tripod which weighs only a few ounces. This little Culliman German made tripod can support a surprising amount of weight. It also has a tiny ball head on which I mounted a spare Arca Compatible clamp. I got the tripod at a garage sale for only a couple of dollars and I had the extra A/C clamp laying around.



IMO, one real advantage of using the Arca Compatible clamp system is that, with an L bracket, the camera doesn't have to hang cantilevered over to the side when in vertical shooting position. Having the camera directly over the tripod head reduced the need for a very heavy tripod. Of course, when using a lens with a tripod ring, the package is always directly above the tripod head so the tripod can support quite a load.



I have used the modified SLIK Pro 330DX in Utah shooting from the rims of canyons in a stiff breeze and the camera was held quite securely and steadily.