Some more bird practice...for C&C

[Barbara Ponder]

I am still confused on what ISO to use on sunny bright days I thought on brighter days, ISO 100 or 200 is sufficient so I match the SS and Aperture speed appropriately to suit, plus or minus depending on the shadows. Upping my ISO is only a consideration for me when my SS or Aperture does not seem to match my histogram or why I am still having blinkies...then my think tank gets excited and up my ISO. I always make it the last resort in the exposure triangle especially if I am handholding...

Izzie, with todays cameras ISO a little higher is not a big issue. Let me see if I can explain the reason for the focal length shutter speed connection. If you have a lens length of 400mm the speed of your shutter needs to be at least 400 to make for a steady shot(100mm=100SS, 300mm=300 SS etc) this accounts for just the compensation needed for the lens movement(meaning the shake that comes from a longer lens when handholding). So if you have a static subject you are good with just that SS however if you have a subject that is moving you need to add more speed to freeze the movement of the subject. Thus if at 400mm I need 400SS for the lens and then a BIF I would need to have extra SS totaling at the very least 800 but usually 1200. Did that help at all?

[bnnrcn]

Very nice series Isabel, you are certainly getting better at this No technical comments from me as there are experienced bird shooters around

[IzzieK]

Yes, Barbara...this did although I have read this before, it just went over my head. Now that I am and will be using it, I can understand better...I am a slow learner but a very enthusiastic student wanting just to be a you a little...thank you very much...

Izzie, with todays cameras ISO a little higher is not a big issue. Let me see if I can explain the reason for the focal length shutter speed connection. If you have a lens length of 400mm the speed of your shutter needs to be at least 400 to make for a steady shot(100mm=100SS, 300mm=300 SS etc) this accounts for just the compensation needed for the lens movement(meaning the shake that comes from a longer lens when handholding). So if you have a static subject you are good with just that SS however if you have a subject that is moving you need to add more speed to freeze the movement of the subject. Thus if at 400mm I need 400SS for the lens and then a BIF I would need to have extra SS totaling at the very least 800 but usually 1200. Did that help at all?

[IzzieK]

Very nice series Isabel, you are certainly getting better at this No technical comments from me as there are experienced bird shooters around

Thank you Binnur...I hope so to learn more before I move on to other subjects. Yesterday we passed by an athletic area and I just resisted going in one of the stands there as these are the kind of people who wouldn't object for you taking a shot or two of them and their actions...When I run out of things to photograph it will be nice to go there again....

Thank you for your comments, so very kind as usual...appreciate it...

[IzzieK]

Thanks George...

I think there is quite an amount of motion blur in the images. It's hard to see on these small images.
I would suggest to start with a shutterspeed of minimal 2x the focal length.

I don't know if I understood you well, but changing the ISO doesn't influenze the histogram as long you follow the lightmeter, manual or (half)-automatic. Allways try as low as possible.

If you have a tripod, you can compare photo's shot from a tripod and from handheld. You will be surprised what a differences that will show. And you can do it home. The subject is not important.

George

[IzzieK]

Very nice images, definitely better than the first series. There are some lovely colours in these, that Spoonbill looks HUGE!

Thanks for passing by, Matt...

[IzzieK]

Izzie, I will think of you next time I see a headless Flamingo.

The spoonbill looks as if he is looking down his nose at you (and he has quite a lot of 'nose' to look down). You can imagine the accountant explaining (as if to an idiot) why your figures don't add up.

Actually, I'm not sure where the forehead comes in!

John

OK..understood...my tax accountant is not like that and my DIL is also an accountant but she is the most gracious and most kind person in the whole wide world, so I do not really think of accountants are snooty...I guess I am surrounded by the wrong sort of people and I am the only bitch in this lot... I must be on my last hurrah.....Thanks for the info. I promise not to make too much fun at many things...

[IzzieK]

I too am liking this set Izzie. I can not offer any tips or suggestions on improving these but I'm sure absorbing all the advise you are receiving. I will sit back and await your next instalment then maybe follow it with some of by bird attempts.

Irene

Thanks Irene...Appreciate your comments...I will upload another set today I promise...I just kept putting it off because I do not want to overwhelmed by audience and the ones who are helping me make my shots good. And thank God they are all here and I am learning so much..I guess I asked the right questions this time around...

[IzzieK]

I am very flattered that you are taking some time from your busy schedule to help me here...May the good God blesses your heart.

As for Joe's advice, I shoot manual, I know of no others for a long time (discounting from June and beyond when I shoot airshows and airplanes...) but this is a different genre for me and I'd been so used to using manual most of the time for the rest of my shots. But why Auto ISO then set to 3200....I thought when one uses manual, you set your ISO manually too...there a difference?

Oh yes...I do check my histogram often though there are some lapses every now and then when I got to excited about a bird doing his/her antics in front of me, then I give myself a kick for not getting the sequence and have to wait for another sequence of antics to shoot from the same subject...they usually do a repeat performance...

I like your method on the second paragraph and taken notes...I thought I am birded out from my last outing at the zoo but learning more tricks and tips makes me want to go to the Wild Bird Sanctuary next week...in earnest...patience, Izzie...patience...

Thank you very, very much, Christina...for all these added information. I will do as adviced about the eyes. I thought I was beginning to think like that but I missed a few I think due to carelessness...I have to have a set method for doing so and yes, I will practice with my backyard birds as they downed a whole bag of bird seeds lately when I wasn't looking...they might as well pay me back by posing for me...nicely...

And thanks for the links...too.

Hi Izzie,

Just to advise not to be shy about using higher iso's on birds in bright light, oftentimes very much needed! One of the first exercises Joe gave me to practice with birds in flight was to set my camera to Manual f/8 SS 1/2500 Auto ISO set to 3200... While some shots were too, noisy most every shot was sharp so I learned a lot from that exercise. Another very valuable lesson for me was Mike's advice to always check my exposure by checking my histogram which I do religiously. And today I'm trying to be very conscientious of my backgrounds (a distracting background blurred is still distracting), being at the same level of the subject or lower, and being aware of where the light is falling on the bird.

For birds I typically use manual, choosing my shutter speed and aperture and auto ISO typically set to a max of 800. Then I try a few test shots on my subject and I can see right away if the light will allow for a proper exposure, first thing. Then it is simply a matter of deciding if I can get away with a slower shutter speed/larger aperture or if I have to up the ISO, or if the lighting conditions are impossible for a quality shot. Easier for me than in manual mode because I typically have a set aperture in mind/or the lighting conditions dictate the aperture, so it is simply a matter of changing the shutter speed.

When I check out my bird images I view the eye at 100%, and it is super easy to see when I just missed my focus which typically happens when I'm using slower shutter speeds to avoid using a higher ISO. (hand held, longer focal lengths)Try photographing a bird in your yard at various shutter speeds and check out the difference.

If you view Barbara's bird images you'll see that they head of the bird/eye is always beautifully sharp. And check out the ISO's used by Bobo and Joe, all beautiful!

PS
Great info on chosen SS and focal length (greater for cropped frame cameras)

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...era-lenses.htm

[Brownbear]

As for Joe's advice, I shoot manual, I know of no others for a long time (discounting from June and beyond when I shoot airshows and airplanes...) but this is a different genre for me and I'd been so used to using manual most of the time for the rest of my shots. But why Auto ISO then set to 3200....I thought when one uses manual, you set your ISO manually too...there a difference?

Oh yes...I do check my histogram often though there are some lapses every now and then when I got to excited about a bird

Hi Izzie,

I can't speak for Joe but my best guess is that he had me set the max ISO to 3200 so I could learn just how high an ISO I could get away with (if the image is exposed to the right (without clipping highlights) as far as possible). For my camera a Nikon D7100 my ideal is as high as ISO 800, 1600 is doable, and 3200 is the max (noise reduction needed)... Perhaps with the thought in mind that it is better to have a sharp, well focused image with a little bit of noise (that can be reduced with PP) instead of a blurry and/or out of focus image.

When I first joined this forum I was of the mind that one should never use an ISO above 100 and I was missing lots of bird images because of this. Perhaps the exercise was to teach me that higher ISOs to allow for faster shutter speeds is very useful for birds in flight. Indeed most of the bird images that I end up deleting are out of focus or underexposed, rather than too, noisy. The exercise taught me just how high an ISO is sometimes necessary at high shutter speeds when photographing birds.

With respect to Auto ISO, I was under the impression that you have a Nikon Camera and if yes, it is a very handy feature for birds in flight as the light is typically changing depending on where you catch them during their flight path. It allows one to pick the ideal shutter speed and aperture for BIF, and let the camera change the ISO for you. After checking my exposure if the histogram shows that the BIF is underexposed and that I haven't reached the maximum setting for the ISO I set... + exp. compensation ups the ISO to push the exposure to the right. And for stationary birds the light can also change quickly, ie; clouds overhead or not... If I don't wish to use a higher ISO I drop the shutter speed or choose a larger aperture. If you don't have a Nikon... My sincere apologies.

Great to hear that you're thinking of visiting a bird sanctuary.

[Brownbear]

I don't know how to look at the EXIF data...

Hi Barbara,
This is what I use to read the EXIF data. (with Firefox it's one click of a button)

http://regex.info/blog/other-writing...ge-data-viewer

So you, too can check up on Izzie's chosen shutter speeds.

[IzzieK]

Yes...I gifted myself a Nikon D810 last Christmas (because actually, I envy your birdie shots and that of Barbara's)...I'd like to get that close to see the feathers and get some action shots and all that...and the close ups of bugs and center of flowers without having to worry about pixels...just get closer. Of course a proper lens can do those too provided it is not a point and shoot but since I had not bought a camera for two years...you know the rest. Hmmm...in your second paragraph, I get the feelings that I had not been alone in this starting at ISO 100 and no more than ISO400 thing because I was scared of noise. With my camera I can go up further than ISO 800 and not see any noise at all. Besides I have come to the realization that softwares nowadays are more intelligently and robustly built that noise is not much as a problem as in the past when you correct an image, it looks like soft water (or something like so...)

Auto ISO -- that is a very good idea! I should had used that on the Egret's mating dance because he was way up near the roof of the enclosure at the zoo when I took those shots...I had to change locations twice...set as I go because I was shooting manual all the way...now to I have to edit the over exposure some...Thank you very much for those added tips...very timely to have as next week is my week to go there at the sanctuary and I will escape my husband's clutches if I have to...hehehehe...

Hi Izzie,

I can't speak for Joe but my best guess is that he had me set the max ISO to 3200 so I could learn just how high an ISO I could get away with (if the image is exposed to the right (without clipping highlights) as far as possible). For my camera a Nikon D7100 my ideal is as high as ISO 800, 1600 is doable, and 3200 is the max (noise reduction needed)... Perhaps with the thought in mind that it is better to have a sharp, well focused image with a little bit of noise (that can be reduced with PP) instead of a blurry and/or out of focus image.

When I first joined this forum I was of the mind that one should never use an ISO above 100 and I was missing lots of bird images because of this. Perhaps the exercise was to teach me that higher ISOs to allow for faster shutter speeds is very useful for birds in flight. Indeed most of the bird images that I end up deleting are out of focus or underexposed, rather than too, noisy. The exercise taught me just how high an ISO is sometimes necessary at high shutter speeds when photographing birds.

With respect to Auto ISO, I was under the impression that you have a Nikon Camera and if yes, it is a very handy feature for birds in flight as the light is typically changing depending on where you catch them during their flight path. It allows one to pick the ideal shutter speed and aperture for BIF, and let the camera change the ISO for you. After checking my exposure if the histogram shows that the BIF is underexposed and that I haven't reached the maximum setting for the ISO I set... + exp. compensation ups the ISO to push the exposure to the right. And for stationary birds the light can also change quickly, ie; clouds overhead or not... If I don't wish to use a higher ISO I drop the shutter speed or choose a larger aperture. If you don't have a Nikon... My sincere apologies.

Great to hear that you're thinking of visiting a bird sanctuary.

[ied]

Izzie, I have enjoyed this thread immensely. Most informative. I have gleaned so much from Christine and Barbara"s posts. Thank you ladies. I too was of the mind set that ISO was to remain around 100-200. I have gone out to give this a try and am amazed at the difference. I will share the results in a day or so.

Irene

[Brownbear]

With my camera I can go up further than ISO 800 and not see any noise at all. Besides I have come to the realization that softwares nowadays are more intelligently and robustly built that noise is not much as a problem as in the past when you correct an image, it looks like soft water (or something like so...)

Hi Izzie,

Just to say that these days I'm trying my best not to go over ISO 800 albeit for birds in flight in soft light, higher iso's are often necessary. I just do my best to expose as far to the right as possible, without clipping the highlights because if I underexpose the shot and have to lift the exposure, noise is evident. So far I haven't met a noise reduction program that I like, so best avoided. So I'm also trying my best to find better light, considering using a tripod more frequently, and for my next camera (in the far future) I will be looking for better iso performance. It is nice to hear that you are going to give it a try. If anything it is a good learning exercise about photographing birds, and how your camera performs.

I recall another reason for Joe's exercise... If I set my camera so as to not miss a shot, I would be able to pay more attention to composition and the existing light, rather than spending time fiddling with my camera settings.

[IzzieK]

I think the thing is to ask questions that sort of boggles the mind and somewhere, sometime, someone like Christina and Barbara will come along and respond to your question and it is up to you to practice what they themselves preached (?) and experience. Your experience might not be the same as theirs but very, very close...lots of bird practice for me today that I am left alone here in the house. I shooed them denizens here away right after lunch so I can be practicing without the distraction of "honey...." or woof ! woof! need to go out! so in the meantime, I uploaded a firemen rescue in another post. Keep the rest busy... I hope Jack will come to my rescue...I am glad you are learning from my inquisitiveness...

Izzie, I have enjoyed this thread immensely. Most informative. I have gleaned so much from Christine and Barbara"s posts. Thank you ladies. I too was of the mind set that ISO was to remain around 100-200. I have gone out to give this a try and am amazed at the difference. I will share the results in a day or so.

Irene

[IzzieK]

I think I will do the same but I am taking your advice seriously about the auto ISO today as I have heard some crow's calling this morning...'Will see how far I can go...Thank you so much for coming to my aid. I will be well prepared when we go to the Bird Sanctuary next week...I am both thrilled and flattered by your attention and responses.

On the other hand, have you finished moving house? How far did you from the old place?

Hi Izzie,

Just to say that these days I'm trying my best not to go over ISO 800 albeit for birds in flight in soft light, higher iso's are often necessary. I just do my best to expose as far to the right as possible, without clipping the highlights because if I underexpose the shot and have to lift the exposure, noise is evident. So far I haven't met a noise reduction program that I like, so best avoided. So I'm also trying my best to find better light, considering using a tripod more frequently, and for my next camera (in the far future) I will be looking for better iso performance. It is nice to hear that you are going to give it a try. If anything it is a good learning exercise about photographing birds, and how your camera performs.

I recall another reason for Joe's exercise... If I set my camera so as to not miss a shot, I would be able to pay more attention to composition and the existing light, rather than spending time fiddling with my camera settings.

[Brownbear]

On the other hand, have you finished moving house? How far did you from the old place?

Hi Izzie,
Great to hear that you find my sharing my experience, helpful. I've received so much help and advice from members here and one day I hope to be able to return the favour in kind.

We move just two blocks away, which is wonderful because we love the area that we live in... It's a beautiful place, close to mountains, back-country trails and nature, but close enough to the city, too.

Still settling in... Unfortunately the professional moving company we hired showed up 5 hours late, so I decided to carry everything I could (lots of stairs), and I hurt my back, so I haven't been able to do anything, not even work. But I've been receiving physiotherapy and recovering quickly. So I'm behind on everything but I'll eventually catch up. All is well... Thanks for asking.

[IzzieK]

I am glad, Christina...but please do take care of your back...Heat helps when you are lying down...

One day I will be able to help someone here too, pay it forward. It is a nice feeling when we help someone or give something back. When you are able to catch up please do take some pictures...I am sure it has a quite surrounds with lots of photographic opportunities...I still have my house fronting the bay in Oz but no back country trails nor nature because it is now part of the city...I see joggers at the bike/walking trails near the beach itself because that is how they constructed the jogging trails which if one plans to go around Australia, doing just that slowly, they are all interconnected...all the trails are located nearer the waters.

Hi Izzie,
Great to hear that you find my sharing my experience, helpful. I've received so much help and advice from members here and one day I hope to be able to return the favour in kind.

We move just two blocks away, which is wonderful because we love the area that we live in... It's a beautiful place, close to mountains, back-country trails and nature, but close enough to the city, too.

Still settling in... Unfortunately the professional moving company we hired showed up 5 hours late, so I decided to carry everything I could (lots of stairs), and I hurt my back, so I haven't been able to do anything, not even work. But I've been receiving physiotherapy and recovering quickly. So I'm behind on everything but I'll eventually catch up. All is well... Thanks for asking.