Tripod for Macro

[Beauty Through a Lens]

So as some of you may know I got a really good tripod. But I feel like it's making it harder to do macro.

I need to drag on a bit here so you guys understand what I am asking so please just stick with me as I am bad at explaining things at times.

For example when I was doing hand held shooting I could of course move back and forth freely to decide what I wanted in focus and much of the subject I wanted in (e.g. the entire flower or just the stamen/carpel [the centre bit]).

Many of you suggested getting a tripod or monopod would help me get my images more in focus and allow me to stack using photoshop.

So I went out and got myself a really nice tripod. The issue I am finding is that I'm struggling to get macro shots with it even of simple things like a flower because I can't get the angle needed and of course I don't know how far I need to be so I have to keep moving my tripod forward and backwards and keep adjusting the head. Long story short it's just a pain.

So my question is...
I have go to be doing something wrong. So should I be using the 3-way head or unscrew it and use the flat base? Would it be better to use it like a monopod?

I am using a 105mm lens (true macro) on the Nikon D5100 with the MT055CXPRO3 tripod.

I apologize in advance if this question seems silly or stupid. I just can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

[Bobobird]

If I had seen that question the answer would have been not to get a tripod but ...

I had that same advice early on in my shooting and to overcome the tripod added on another totally useless bunch of stuff like focusing rail, off camera flash accessories, reflectors, light bouncers, extension tubes, remote shutters, leaf/branch clippers, and a whole range of useless stuff. Of course after all that I stopped doing macro - the equipment setup alone (and weight) was enough to stop me roaming around and peering into this or that to find the critters.

Nothing and NOTHING will ever beat hand held. Dont walk my road! Improve your handholding technique and learn to balance while contorted into odd body shapes.

One item which no one mentioned but is a must have item which I still use to this day with my birds is a low profile folding stool. Helps getting low, and allows use of knees for support.

[rpcrowe]

I have never used the Manfrotto MT055CXPRO3. However, looking at the illustration on the link above, this doesn't seem like a fully articulating tripod (someone please correct me if I am wrong). It seems to me from the illustration, that the center column can be attached parallel to the ground which allows some versatility. I am wondering just how much camera placement movement this would allow. It seems like up and down movement would be done by adjusting the tripod legs.

I have a Giottos MT8180 tripod and took this from the brochure to indicate what a fully articulating tripod is capable of.



Using an Arca Compatible Ball Head and a RRS L Bracket, I can place the camera/lens just about any place I need. I always have to remember that when articulating to the maximum extent, the camera/lens package center of gravity is well away from the center line of the tripod, so can be a bit unstable. I try to do the maximum placement using the legs and the minimum placement using the center column.

Regarding your tripod: I would expect that the maximum versatility could be gained with a good ball head, especially with an Arca Compatible quick release head on the tripod. Using a longer than average (say 100 mm or so) straight mounting plate would allow some fore and aft as well as some side to side (depending on how the clamp is attached to the camera) movement.

Finallly, it might help mobility if you found a set of wheels for the tripod. That way you could push the rig back and forth. However, that would depend on the surface upon which the tripod is standing.

[chauncey]

Long story short it's just a pain

I agree with Bobo...shooting macro in the wild is a real PITA...easier/better to remove the subject
from it's natural milieu to a more controlled environment/studio.

[Geoff F]

Tripods are wonderful, Adrian, but for macro work there is a bit of a specific use learning curve. This will come with experience and you will soon be able to place your tripod exactly where it should be; without even thinking about it.

Today I was shooting a butterfly which was in an awkward position so I removed my camera for a quick handheld shoot. What a struggle to hold position and keep focus! I don't think I will have one keeper from that lot, and I was using a stabilised lens.

I find ball heads are essential for live insects but you can easily get by without them for static subjects.

Also for insects, when quick shots at odd angles are required, I often tilt the rig forwards on just two legs; like a two legged monopod. Or even rest the third leg on my shoe to give a different angle. But this shouldn't be necessary for static subjects where you have plenty of time.

There is a bit of a knack to moving those legs through dense undergrowth and sometimes you have to lift everything clear then replace instead of simply 'sliding forwards'. You will soon get used to this way of working.

That tripod does have a rather long centre column which can restrict your minimum height unless you use the horizontal arm position as Richard mentioned. This is a bit fiddly although it can be very handy for those awkward downward shots which are difficult to achieve otherwise.

Some people saw a bit off the column but I find this will restrict you in other ways when you need instant height.

But I use a different method of getting down low for most uses. Hold the centre column against one of the legs (tie them together if it helps) and splay the other two legs as wide as needed. The third leg will remain tight to the centre column. This will get you down there but you will find yourself with the camera at an odd angle.

Whichever method you use, quite a bit of leg splaying will be needed to get low to the ground.

I like to keep the legs fairly close together and on restricted height when in dense undergrowth then gain height by raising the centre column. This is opposite to the advice of landscape/portrait shooting and the rig will be unsteady so you need a hand on your camera at all times. But it does make repositioning amongst brambles and other dense foliage a lot easier.

So keep experimenting and you will soon learn to love your tripod.

[Shadowman]

I've used a focusing rail for really inaccessible macro, manual focusing by moving the camera not my body.

[rpcrowe]

I forgot to mention this option... I don't do a lot of macro of critters because of my lack of mobility... Once I am down, I find it difficult to get up again...

However, for critters, IMO nothing beats a monopod with a tilt-head... It gives the stability of close to a tripod but far more maneuverability. And for me, it can act like a cane to help me get up

A neat accessory for critter hunting with a macro lens is a pair of knee pads. There are good ones available relatively inexpensively at most home improvement stores. The knee pads protect your knees from hard ground and rocks as well a protecting your trouser knees from wet earth and grass...

[DanK]

I think there are several different issues in this thread.

One question is: what should I use? The second question is: how do I use a tripod well?

I do macro handheld with nothing, with a monopod, with a tripod and ball head, and with a tripod and geared head. It all depends on what you want to do.

For flowers, a tripod is in my view optimal. Flowers don't run away, so there is time to set it up and adjust it. I will get back to how to use it. I find a tripod next to useless for bugs because they move before I can get it set as I want, but some people (like Geoff) do use them for bugs.

Your question was about tripods and flowers, so I will forget about bugs for a moment. I have never used a tripod without a head. It makes no sense to me to do that because you then would have to adjust the legs to tilt the camera. I normally use a small ball head on mine. Indoors, I use a big, bulky Manfrotto geared head because it gives me more control. However, that is a luxury. I would just stick with the ballhead for now.

After a while, you will develop an intuitive sense of roughly how far away to put it. For now, just move it. Set it for approximately the right height, take a guess at the distance, and move it forward or backward a few times to figure out the distance.

IMHO, it is very good that you bought a tripod with a center column. Many people don't want one, saying that it makes the camera less stable than mounting the head directly on the legs. However, I find a center column invaluable for macro. It allows you to make minor changes in height without adjusting the legs. Until you get the hang of it, you might want to extend the center column a bit when you first position the tripod. That way, you can use the center column to lower as well as raise the camera if your first guess about position is wrong.

Even once you are used to this, expect a little trial and error.

Bugs are a whole different problem because they rarely stay still. I do bugs handheld or with a monopod and tilt head. I like the monopod because once I add an off-center flash, my camera is both heavy and awkward, and the monopod makes things much easier for me.

I hope this helps. Be patient. Macro takes a lot of practice. Geoff talked about having no keepers from one recent effort. I have had almost no bug keepers this spring. I finally got a couple today that I am not embarrassed to post, but I still haven't gotten any very good. I have been following bumblebees, and just when I get positioned right, they move.

Dan

[just me]

I forgot to mention this option... I don't do a lot of macro of critters because of my lack of mobility... Once I am down, I find it difficult to get up again...

However, for critters, IMO nothing beats a monopod with a tilt-head... It gives the stability of close to a tripod but far more maneuverability. And for me, it can act like a cane to help me get up

A neat accessory for critter hunting with a macro lens is a pair of knee pads. There are good ones available relatively inexpensively at most home improvement stores. The knee pads protect your knees from hard ground and rocks as well a protecting your trouser knees from wet earth and grass...

Re: using a mono pod....but what to do, if for instance the motive.......perhaps a flower quite down on nearly floor level ?

I found a tripod is not good at all for photography animals in a zoo, for this I find a mono pod better, or even much better handheld.......

Griddi......

[jcuknz]

I would suggest the answer is simple if you do not wish to spend more money and that is to use the tripod as a monopod though I have a mini-tripod which gets used occasionally. I like Bobo's advice to get with hand holding and if there is not much light I use the on-board flash.
If you are young and willing to lie on the ground then you could make yourself a short monopod as I did when I knew I was going to shoot a garden railway ... just a short length of aluminium tube with a quarter whitworth bolt screwed in the end and top cut off to screw into bottom of camera ... maake sure you do not spoil the end of the thread ... helps if you keep a nut on the bolt as you cut the top off and this cleans the damaged thread end as it is removed. Or it could be left if you have too much thread for the camera's hole. Screwing the nut up against the camera bottom etc. If the alum tube is larger than the bolt fill it with wood and screw the bolt into it That is how I fixed a ball-head to a homemade regular sized monopod.In this case the pod is made of recticular hollow section tube.





I am very happy with this mini-tripod, third one I own, with the little angle bracket made as when held against a wall or post the camera cannot shoot a 'landscape' shot due to limited movement of head. Slik 8555 the cheapest one at B&H

[JohnRostron]

I used to have the problem of getting down to ground level, and getting up again. I can manage it now, just. For many shots I devised a method of taking low-level photographs of flowers or fungi hand-held. I face away from the plant, then bend over and take the photograph from between my legs. Not very elegant, but it works.

Now I can get up and down, I use a sheet of bubble-wrap to lie on, and another one rolled up to sit the camera on. I place the camera on the rolled-up wrap for support, then take the photo hand-held. Most tripods do not really let you get right down to ground level. If necessary, I use a couple of portable LED lights.

John

[DanK]

Most tripods do not really let you get right down to ground level.

you can get down to ground level if you get a tripod with a reversible center column:

[Saorsa]

I've used just about everything you can imagine for macro. One I haven't seen mentioned here is a 'shooting' stick and I sometimes use my monopod as one.

Basically, all you need is a stick, no mount or anything. You hold the stick in your left hand and rest the balance point of the camera/lense combo on your left wrist. You can move your hold point in any direction, forward or backwards up and down with incredible ease. folks shooting guns often use two forming a fork at the grip.

It's a step up from handheld and once you learn it process it makes using an actual monopod easier too.

I often use my monopod with the head quite loose but it is less convenient than a stick for elevation changes.

[loosecanon]

For macro work I find the original manfrotto 222 (I think) Joystick head very good you can release the ball head by squeesing the trigger whilst also adjusting the head direction, on release the head locks solidly. I think one of the new lighter joystick heads allows a similar vertical configuration.

[William W]

. . . I went out and got myself a really nice tripod. The issue I am finding is that I'm struggling to get macro shots with it even of simple things like a flower because I can't get the angle needed and of course I don't know how far I need to be so I have to keep moving my tripod forward and backwards and keep adjusting the head. Long story short it's just a pain.
So my question is...
I have go to be doing something wrong. So should I be using the 3-way head or unscrew it and use the flat base? Would it be better to use it like a monopod?

I concur with the comments by Richard Crowe, I too think that the Manfrotto Tripod does NOT have full articulation. I think that is a limitation with that particular model Tripod for the work that you want to do. But I do not think it is an insurmountable limitation, just not the tripod that I would have bought.

Question - Also, you do not state what model 3 way head you are using – maybe you could tell us that, please?

My general advice is to follow the advice that RPCrowe, Geoff F and Dan Kortez gave.

I think that the most important elements are:

1. practice and patience

2. there are many techniques and approaches one can employ for Macro and for some a tripod is the best, for others a monopod might be the most useful and hand-held for others could be the method to use.

I definitively advise that you NOT just use “the base [of the tripod stem]” – you do need to use some type of head assembly. For FLOWER MACRO possibly the 3 way head is hindering you to move quickly to frame the flower the way you want it.

My general comment is that a ball-head is great for simplicity and ease of use, e.g. for subject like a flower. In any case a good quality Ball-Head will provide many other services for you.

I also agree that the Manfrotto 222 Pistol grip Head is a very useful tool. But hastily add that many folk do not kike using it. I think that is because to make them really stable at very odd angles, the movement has to be very tight.

The Manfrotto 222 can support a large moment of turning force - and that can be very useful for macro work, for example if one is using tubes and/or an extender. I haven't used any of the lighter weight Pistol Grip heads, but would suggest that a lighter weight model might not be as effective if one is using a weighty camera and lens arrangement and needed to set it at a very steep angle.

Comparing the 222 Pistol Grip to a Ball Head – the distance around of the arc of turning is greater for the Pistol Grip and for some macro work that might be an advantage because you might not have to move the tripod as many times to frame the subject.

The Manfrotto 222 sustains good rigidity and stability in these example configurations where there is a relatively weighty camera and lens arrangement loaded on it:







***

In summary, it occurs to me that your pain is more about not yet having the experience to best use the gear that you have, rather than having the totally wrong gear.

The next point is, we usually only get that experience, by going though the pain, so I suggest that you don’t run out and buy a truck load of new gear in anticipation that “the gear” is the answer to everything. However, depending upon your answer to the question I asked, I might suggest that you do buy a different head for your Tripod.

The main two issues that you brought to this conversation is that you are frustrated because you firstly don’t know how far away to set the camera and then you take too much time fiddling with the tripod and head to get the framing accurate.

Perhaps start simply by setting an exercise for yourself, inside, get a small flower in a simple position and get learn the general distance and angle that you have to set the camera. Then do the same for a medium sized flower and then the same for a big flower.

It is just like wanting to play the Piano well or compete in Swimming – you’ve got to practice your scales and turn up at 0500 to do your sets.

WW

[DanK]

A few more thoughts:

First, Bill has again given very good advice. It reminds me of the old New York joke. A tourist gets into a taxi and asks the driver, "how do I get to Carnegie Hall?" the cabbie answers, "Practice, practice, practice."

Re an articulating tripod: I would sometimes like to have one, and if a truck drove over my current tripod, I might buy one, but for most macro work, you can do fine without one. I have never owned one, and I do more macro than anything else. So, I would not worry at all that your tripod is not fully articulating. Mine doesn't articulate at all. Yours will be fine.

Re the advice several of us have given you about ball heads: while I don't accept the argument that one needs to buy a top-of-the-line tripod, the quality of the ballhead really does matter. I just got through replacing my modestly priced one with a fairly expensive one (Markins Q3). Because good ones are expensive, I suggest making do with what you have until you can read reviews and think carefully about what features matter to you.

[William W]

. . . Re the advice several of us have given you about ball heads: while I don't accept the argument that one needs to buy a top-of-the-line tripod, the quality of the ballhead really does matter. . . .

Agree.

As a general comment (always dangerous to generalize), but for all genres of photography: provided that the tripod is stable, then the quality and functionality of the head assembly is more important than having bells and whistles on the tripod.

That's one point I was alluding to when I mentioned that some people don't like the pistol grip - it really has to be tight, for it to be an effective tool for macro or close up work.

Additionally, please note that I don't specialize in macro work, I just use the best suited tools that I have for macro and close up work, when I need to do that type of work.

WW

[Geoff F]

Regarding ball heads. I have been using the Manfrotto Hydrostatic 468MGRC4 which is very smooth when used without fully tightening but will also lock completely with a simple turn of a large knob. No slip whatever camera gear is attached. Not a cheap purchase though.

But when used without being fully tightened it will 'bite fingers' if you aren't careful.

After quite a bit of use mine suddenly failed and I found the internal tightening screw threads had become worn; so I ordered another. Then I did a bit of emergency repair thinking and with the aid of a hacksaw I was able to shorten the locking assembly which gave me access to some fresh threads. Worked fine then.

So I now have a spare; but that will be handy for my lighting tripod where I was finding one of the 'pistol grip' ball heads tended to slip with a heavy lamp attachment.

[Langstrath]

Some time ago, I met a chap taking macro shots of damsel flies with excellent results. His answer to the tripod issue was simple, convenient, lightweight and inexpensive. Having adopted it myself for shooting flowers and butterflies, I have found it highly effective.

In place of a tripod or monopod, a plain old broomstick held in the camera hand, and its end planted on the ground , provides adequate support, and the position, and angle of the camera are easily adjusted. The desired height is reached by simply sliding the hand up or down the broomstick as required

This works well with a typical bridge camera, but might be more difficult with a heavier camera/lens combo.

[Geoff F]

There are various other quick fix options. For example, using a piece of string. One end tied to a bolt in the normal tripod fixing hole and the loose end under your foot. Just use upward pressure to keep the string taut. Some people use a walking stick either with a 'proper' attachment or simply as a rough steady pole.

All I can say is, yes better than nothing. But I know from my experience that if I tip my tripod forwards so it is only on two legs I usually get away with it; but as soon as I have to go on to one leg, like a monopod, my keeper rate drops alarmingly!

With a Bridge camera you probably have more in the way of focus depth which gives some allowance for 'in out sway' than with many dedicated macro lenses.