Need help choosing a mirrorless camera

[Mark von Kanel]

Im fed up of waiting for Nikon to re do the d300 and so have decided that im going to buy a mirrorless camera to fill the gap in my gear and hopfully be a little bit lighter than my D800, 70/200 24/70 2.8 combo, i travel a lot and figured somthing like the panasonic GH4 and equivilant lens might fill the spot.

Ive just started looking and will make my purchase when i get home in july. So what do i choose? Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji, Samsung, Sony???

i want a high frame rate for sports /nature.
im not that bothered about video.
i want WIFI conectivity.
A good range of accessories
A good range of quality glass

So what do you guys reccomend?

[Manfred M]

I went through a similar thought process about a year ago; but restricted myself to a mFT format as I already owned a 14-140mm and 100-300mm lens (Panasonic). I ended up with a Panasonic GX7; which is mid-to higher end; it does have WiFi. The Olympus really did not impress me all that much (it just did not feel right in my hands). I also liked the in-lens stabilization from Panny as well as the focus peaking indicator for manual focus work.

Would I make the same decision if I started again now; probably, but if I didn't already have the glass, I would have had a hard look at some of the Fujifilm camera.

All that being said; the only thing I use this camera for is small size and weight. There are simply too many compromises versus the pro body features that I like when I shoot, so the D800 is definitely still my "go to" camera. I've handled some Olympus, Fuji and Sony bodies and the same comments apply; the designers have made handling tradeoffs to shrink things down. Don't expect to save any money on lenses either; the costs are more or less comparable with the equivalent lenses that you already have. Fast lenses are pricey to make, regardless of who turns them out.

[Shadowman]

Are you considering the compact body style or the DSLR style?

[jcuknz]

I see no point to other than MFT as the others need bigger lens so you might as well suffer as a DSLR user*. But then I ended up with my second of three MFT with something which is like a DSLR but smaller .... Panasonic GH2 .... but still has a reasonable weight like my earlier 'big' Pany FZs ... largely from the lens, my 14-140 zoom.
I also have a simpler Olympus EPL-1 purchased purely for its IBIS for my legacy lenses ... which have never been fitted on it ... and it currently carries my 'fun' BugEye lens. Being used to Panasonic menus I find Olympus incomprehensible I find those lauding Olympus cameras irritating purely on that basis in my ignorance of those top-line Oly's which folk rave about
None of my cameras has Wi-Fi and have no need for it as far as I can see ... obviously blind to progress

* true I expect there are compact lens which sacrifice speed for compactness which really is immaterial with modern sensors capable of high ISO for undemanding subjects/ viewers.

The only thing which I think I might like if I choose to divert funds from other interests would be a 25-600 zoom such as the Panasonic FZ200 has with its constant f/2.8 not that that either is important with a good sensor and higher compensating ISO.

So many conflicting arguments cancelling each other out these days it seems to me

[Shadowman]

I see no point to other than MFT as the others need bigger lens so you might as well suffer as a DSLR user*. But then I ended up with my second of three MFT with something which is like a DSLR but smaller .... Panasonic GH2 .... but still has a reasonable weight like my earlier 'big' Pany FZs ... largely from the lens, my 14-140 zoom.
I also have a simpler Olympus EPL-1 purchased purely for its IBIS for my legacy lenses ... which have never been fitted on it ... and it currently carries my 'fun' BugEye lens. Being used to Panasonic menus I find Olympus incomprehensible I find those lauding Olympus cameras irritating purely on that basis in my ignorance of those top-line Oly's which folk rave about
None of my cameras has Wi-Fi and have no need for it as far as I can see ... obviously blind to progress

* true I expect there are compact lens which sacrifice speed for compactness which really is immaterial with modern sensors capable of high ISO for undemanding subjects/ viewers.

The only thing which I think I might like if I choose to divert funds from other interests would be a 25-600 zoom such as the Panasonic FZ200 has with its constant f/2.8 not that that either is important with a good sensor and higher compensating ISO.

So many conflicting arguments cancelling each other out these days it seems to me

As an owner of the EPL-1, I have to ask "are there any captures that you are genuinely happy with?"

[jcuknz]

Everything it has taken using A mode as a point and shoot camera with the bug-eye, I bought a body only, so probably not as critical as yourself Currently it is fitted with a 35mm TV camera lens but yet to shoot anything with that ... seemed so cheap I took a punt ... probably 'lost' .... but must try it with extension tubes one day when I get around to that. [100mm extension to a 35mm lens should be interesting, maybe add in the bellows at 120mm more .]

edit .. adding a shot I took when testing various cameras, no record of what lens used, might have been my legacy Takumar 35mm to match at 70mm equiv the lens of my Canon P&S which did equally well. [80mm]



Resized SOOC down to 1400 pixels across 1050 for here ... seems quite good and shows my statuette marking the ashes of my companion Smudge featured elsewhere at CiC. 400 ISO 1/50 on tripod
I am sure I could sort this out too but SOOC at 1400/1050 pixels . a snap staying at my son's place in Central.



edit looking at EXIF I must have been using my Lumix 14-140 zoom at 14mm [ its the only 14mm I have ]

[Shadowman]

Everything it has taken using A mode as a point and shoot camera with the bug-eye, I bought a body only, so probably not as critical as yourself Currently it is fitted with a 35mm TV camera lens but yet to shoot anything with that ... seemed so cheap I took a punt ... probably 'lost' .... but must try it with extension tubes one day when I get around to that. [100mm extension to a 35mm lens should be interesting, maybe add in the bellows at 120mm more .]

edit .. adding a shot I took when testing various cameras, no record of what lens used, might have been my legacy Takumar 35mm to match at 70mm equiv the lens of my Canon P&S which did equally well. [80mm]



Resized SOOC down to 1400 pixels across 1050 for here ... seems quite good and shows my statuette marking the ashes of my companion Smudge featured elsewhere at CiC. 400 ISO 1/50 on tripod
I am sure I could sort this out too but SOOC at 1400/1050 pixels . a snap staying at my son's place in Central.



edit looking at EXIF I must have been using my Lumix 14-140 zoom at 14mm [ its the only 14mm I have ]

I still have my DSLRs but the MFT is my camera of choice for tight situations (street fairs, art festivals).

[Mark von Kanel]

Thanks guys, still looking like panny are the best option. Thanks for the insight everyone, ill look at gx7 vs gh4 and maybe the fuji x-t1 lens choice seem far more restricted in fuji but given that i spend most of the time with either the 24/70 or 70/200 mounted i dont really need that much choice..... anyone out there tried the new samsung?

[davidedric]

Hi Mark,

First, I am a hobbyist, and and lack the experience and expertise of someone like Manfred. I also struggle a bit with carrying weight, and I have fairly small hands . I wanted a camera that I could readily take anywhere.

About eighteen months ago I decided to dip a toe in mirrorless waters, and bought a refurbished Panasonic G5 with kit lens. I chose mft because it delivered the size and weight savings I needed, and it had the widest choice of bodies and lenses. I chose Panasonic because I handled both ranges, and found the Panasonic felt better. (Incidentally, if you have a John Lewis nearby, they will probably have a good range of bodies to handle.)

Anyway, I really, really liked my new kit. Liked it enough that I then bought the 14-140mm, which gave me the travel kit I wanted. Since then I bought a gx7 body, the 100-300mm, and most recently the 12-35mm "pro" lens, which is by some way the best glass I have ever owned.

Since last summer, my dslr (a modest 600D) hasn't left the house. The only drawback for me is that the 100-300mm is only an ok lens, and neither manufacturer seems to have anything better in the pipeline. However, on this year's safari I plan on just taking mft, and if the results are good enough for me, the dslr kit will be heading for eBay.

Just one person's experience, of course,

Dave

[inkista]

So what do i choose? Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji, Samsung, Sony???

If you want 4K video, then Panasonic or Samsung.
If you want fast-action capability, then probably the top-end Olympus or Fuji (EM-1 or XT-1)

Your main stumbling block is:

... i want a high frame rate for sports /nature.

You can have high frame rate on a ton of mirrorless cameras. Having good tracking AF to go along with it is where these systems can fall apart. If this is really truly the top of your requirements list, you're probably only going to be happy with either the XT-1 or the EM-1. None of the other mirrorless cameras come close to dSLR PDAF performance levels on AF speed. And even on these two models, you'll hear varying reports.

You'll want to adjust expectations from dSLR levels for fast-action shooting.

i want WIFI conectivity.

Not an issue. Just get a relatively new model from this year or last, and it'll have wi-fi.

A good range of accessories

Adjust expectations accordingly. 3rd party support is nowhere near the level for Canon/Nikon for any of these makes. If you plan to get TTL/HSS-compatible cheap radio triggers from Yongnuo, you're SOL.

A good range of quality glass

Depends on your definition of "a good range". If you're a pro-quality primes kinda shooter, then Fuji is probably your first port of call. If you're a shoots-all-over-the-goddamn-place, then you want micro four-thirds's widest range in mirrorless. Sony--especially on the full-frame side of the fence--seems to be the one place lagging a bit, but they did that with A-mount as well, and they're going a lot faster with E-mount. But be prepared to occasionally consider adapting if you get in to E-mount.

To me, it's micro four-thirds for the widest glass range and best portability (smaller sensors=> smaller lenses), Fuji X for the haptics and primes, and Sony E for the sensors. Pick your top priority, and the choice is made.

You do also need to realize that if you pick an APS-C mirrorless, the lens sizes actually aren't that different from equivalent APS-C dSLR lenses. And lens size makes a difference to system portability.

[rpcrowe]

The Panasonic FZ200 has a very short .1 second lag time which would be very important in my principal camera.

[jcuknz]

A difference between a G and a GH is that most used controls are on the outside rather than in the menu of the G. I gave my G away thinking the person would benefit but the photos he sends me are I-Pads or similar

[Mark von Kanel]

mmmmm desisions desisions..... well im totally undecided! thanks Kathy a lot of well reasond argument..... ive half decided to wait for the D400 or buy a D4s... (but thats hardly portable!) ive been looking at the sony a6000 11fps with supposedly great AF even when tracking and its cheap as chips....It will except my nikon flashes and is i never use them in ttl thats no problem... i can get an adapter for my lens's (no auto focus ect) but i spose i can with any of the makes.

Im going to trundle off and look at the more expensive bodies and see what i think but nothings grabbed me so far so im not sure about spending circa £1500 on somthing im not sure about... and of course they have to pass the "hows it feel in the hand test"

keep it coming guys its all good!

[Manfred M]

The Panasonic GX7 can shoot 40 frames / sec burst mode using the electronic shutter; the "gotcha" is that your images are down to 4MB (rather than the 16MP it normally shoots at) and the viewfinder can't keep up (refresh) at that frame rate.

To me the hand test is probably the most important test of all (and the one I rely on when I chose a camera). The rest of the specs are really all about the tradeoffs one is willing to make.

[Saorsa]

I am more than happy with my Nikon 1 which gives me the use of all my other lenses as well as the range of CX mount lenses.

I've gone native with it now so I have everything from 6.7 to 300mm. All of it fits into a small Tamrac 4252 messenger bag. In this pic, the large lens is actually the 55-200mm on the FT-1 adapter. I have since picked up the 70-300mm CX.

[inkista]

Rental to see about the feel-in-hands and AF performance sounds like it might be an option, here.

The Panasonic GX7 can shoot 40 frames / sec burst mode using the electronic shutter; the "gotcha" is that your images are down to 4MB (rather than the 16MP it normally shoots at) and the viewfinder can't keep up (refresh) at that frame rate.

Well, that and the GX-7's AF system not being great with AF tracking. Or locking on in low-light. I've cursed it many a time at Comic-Con panels in the dark. Almost as much as I curse some of the silent shooting/electronic shutter side effects (what i call lartigueing and banding).

[Manfred M]

As I've said many times; the main advantage of a smaller camera is size and weight. This smaller size restricts the real estate the camera designer has to work with and to me, that is often (in my opinion as a designer) the fatal flaw of the smaller body.

I was out shooting with both the D800 and GX7. I took roughly the same number of shots with both cameras and I had decent shots out of both. When it came down to identifying the best of the best "keepers"; 100% ended up coming out of the D800; I guess I'm not really all that surprised.

[jcuknz]

I still have my DSLRs but the MFT is my camera of choice for tight situations (street fairs, art festivals).

There is the difference, since I gave away my older D60, bought principly for its ILC ability, when ILC arrived with MFT.
Apart from the Oly my principal camera is a GH2 with the 14-140 lens and auto extension tubes

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi Guys,

Kim my wife is involved now and egging me on, me thinks she has designs on my mirrorless.... Well at least that means i can now have both mirroless and the mythical D400.... we have narrowed the field to:

panny GH4
Oly OMD-E-M5 II
Sony A6000
Sony a7 MKII

MY preferance is for the Oly but the holding test will be crutial as my wife has tiny hands with dainty long pianists fingers and i have a pound of pork sausages joined to a tea plate.....

Im sorry Brian but Nikons offerings leave me cold and considering im heavily invested in their gear is a very sad state of affairs... but thats a story line that ive been down before....

Any suggestions for a good general M4/3 / sony lense to start with? more interested in speed/image qual than price

[inkista]

... Any suggestions for a good general M4/3 / sony lense to start with? more interested in speed/image qual than price

General, possibly only for me (I favor the short telephoto portrait lengths--90-135 on full frame), but hands down my fave is probably the Oly m.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. Purty purty bokeh, very sharp.



Found mine refurbed on the US Oly website for about US$320. The 75/1.8 is even better, but is US$900/$560 refurbed and much larger. The filter size on the 45/1.8 is 37mm.

If you want something closer to normal, the Panny 20/1.7 lenses are good. But not as pretty, to me, as the 45/1.8.