Pentaprism vs. Pentamirror OVF - Significant Improvement?

[TheBigE]

All,

I am currently using a D5300 and after a year of using this camera, I am now starting to see the advantages of having more features on the camera, and thus I am strongly considering upgrading to to the D7200. Let me stress that I do not expect to see significant change in my photography, as the sensor, lens, etc will stay the some between the two models. It is the additional features that are of interest to me in this upgrade (Flash Capability, OVF, Battery Size, Weather Sealed Body).

Currently, I am trying to understand the improvement in OVF. That is from Pentamirror (D5300) to Pentaprism(D7200)

I can see how a Pentaprism is more clear and the D7200 has 100% coverage on the OVF vice 95% on my D5300. However, does the Pentaprism offer a significant improvement over a Pentamirror? Does it help on sunny days or dark evenings? Where is this improvement really realized overall? I am just trying to understand where this would help me in my photography.

At times I do find that I have a problem seeing through my D5300 OVF, especially on sunny days. In addition, given that my eyesight is not the best, any significant improvement in the OVF can help me tremendously.

My issues with my D5300 OVF typically stem more with the exposure data shown in the OVF. Frequently, I find myself forced to pull the camera away from my face to see the adjustments on the back screen, as I cannot read them in OVF. I presume that this would still be the case and not impacted at all by the Pentaprism on the D7200.

Thanks for your input!!

[Manfred M]

The pentaprism gets you a brighter viewfinder, and that's all. Your limiting factor is still going to be the maximum aperture of the lenses you mount on the camera. Using an f/2.8 lens rather than an f/4 lens is going to buy you a lot more than switching from a camera with a pentamirror to one with a pentaprism. You will find that if you compared two cameras with the same lens, side by side, you'd notice the pentaprism is brighter than the pentamirror, but probably not enough to make you notice that much of a difference.

As for changes in exposure data; I know what I have set and count the clicks of my control wheels when I change aperture or shutter speed settings (that comes from the film camera days when the camera viewfinder displays were a lot simpler than in modern digital camera).

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Erik,

I moved from a D5000 to a D7100 a couple of years back and still use both.

I can't say I notice, judging by looking through the OVF, which camera I have picked up, perhaps because of other clues, subconsciously recognised as I raise it to my eye.

In terms of reading the settings against the brightness of image in the OVF, a brighter (pentaprism) one might actually be worse (more glare), unless there's some other factor at play; e.g. the display technology, which from my D7100 onwards, is OLED - and that's probably better than the D5xxx series. I wear glasses to look through the OVF though, which probably has more to do with my not being able to appreciate the full benefits of the OLED display.

What I do use a lot though is the top LCD display (not present on D5xxx series); it's quicker to scan than the rear LCD for settings and making adjustments with all the extra buttons the D7xxx series has.

In fact ergonomics are the best advance over the D5000 for me, although the extra MP helped me, that won't apply to you, as you acknowledge.

Personally, I do miss the tilting rear screen of D5000, which my D7100 doesn't have - for Live View very low angle or above head shooting.

I believe you'll soon love the D7200 for the ergonomics and top LCD.

Hope that helps, Dave

[Ujjwal]

Hi Dave
I believe the D7200 doesn't have an articulated rear screen. That's one reason stopping me from upgrading from D5100, which I use very often to record videos of my grand child (close to the ground shooting) and social get togethers where I use above head shoots.

[TheBigE]

Actually, it does not have an articulating screen. I think that shows up in D750. It is the one feature that I will miss from my D5300, but the other features that I will gain - Most Notably High Speed Sync, will offset the screen.

Thanks for everyone for the feedback. I am still reviewing the options and deciding if I will pull the trigger. Part of me is considering waiting until after our large trip this summer, as I am already very familiar with my D5300...but then I think I could get up to speed quick on the D7200 given all the reading and research already done.

[Manfred M]

Erik - I would suggest that you not underestimate the learning curve, even on a camera from the same manufacturer. I went from a D90 that I had been shooting for a couple of years to a D800 and becoming as competent in using the newer camera as the older one took longer than I thought.

[Dave Humphries]

Thanks Ujjwal and Erik,

I have corrected my error above regarding the D7200 LCD.

Yes, it must have been the D750 I was recalling.

[Mike Buckley]

[Do] not underestimate the learning curve

That's worth repeating!

[Donald]

That's worth repeating!

Indeed it is. I went from a Canon 40D to a 7DMkII. Only now, after 6 months of ownership, do I feel as if I'm starting to learn how to get the best out of it ... and I'm a pretty enthusiastic learner. Only last week, I learned a whole lot more about how to customise the buttons with various functions to make it work in the way I want it to. And as a colleague on here said to me in a PM, I probably still haven't got to understand all its nuances.

[rpcrowe]

Erik - I would suggest that you not underestimate the learning curve, even on a camera from the same manufacturer. I went from a D90 that I had been shooting for a couple of years to a D800 and becoming as competent in using the newer camera as the older one took longer than I thought.

I totally agree with Manfred. Additionally, switching to different styles and types of cameras can really increase the steepness of the learning curve.

I found that switching from my Canon 40D to my 7D was actually easier than learning to get full use out of my new toy: the Canon SX50 HS. Compounding the fact that the cameras are very different is the fact that Canon did not provide a hard copy User Manual with the SX50 HS. They simply provided a quickie "Getting Started Guide" and the User Guide was provided as a PDF file.

I ended up printing the portions of the manual that concerned my use of the camera (I did not need the sections on full automatic use) and having the print out bound at a copy shop. While it is adequate, it is too big and bulky to carry around.

I was going to make a cheat sheet (I had done that for my Canon 10D) but ended up purchasing a cheat sheet on the SX50 HS from Adorana. IMO, the ten dollars I spent for this laminated cheat sheet is worth the time I would have spend composing my own. As a retiree, you might think that I have unlimited time but, my rescue activities eat up as muchtime as my full-time, pre-retirement occupation did. Anything that saves time is worth it...

[TheBigE]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. In fact I think I am going to wait until after my trip this summer. I purchased the D5300 last year with the express goal to establish a baseline in photography and the D5300 in preparations for our trip this summer. I think I need to follow through with this plan, and then afterwards upgrade to the D7200.

That being said, from a phlisophical point of view what have been the biggest hurdles when moving to a different camera by the same maker? Perhaps it is a bit naive, but it seems to me the end result is the same and an understanding of the foundation of photography would carry over to new camera. The exposure triangle is the same regardless of the make and model of each camera.

Perhaps it is akin to moving up with a computer. For example going from older mac to a newer Mac - in this case the newer computer has more functions and capability but the end goal of using the computer is the same, now of course over time how these new features play into how one uses the computer.

I can operate my D5300 very efficiently and have it configured the way it works for me. I have used it this way for quite some time and it only makes sense not to disrupt the flow of things until later this summer.

Thanks again everyone!

[Manfred M]

That being said, from a phlisophical point of view what have been the biggest hurdles when moving to a different camera by the same maker?

I look forward to your comments after you have made the switch to a new camera.

I think the best analogy is getting a new car from the same manufacturer; something we have done. The overall "look and feel" do have a sense of family, but the controls are a bit different, the layout is a bit different and of course the handling is a bit different. It takes some time to get used to the "new and improved" version.

You have a learning curve, regardless, even if things feel "almost familiar".

Just as a bit more information on learning curves - I was the manager of a department that was responsible for developing and introducing new equipment for a large company. We developed a piece of equipment that allowed the employees to produce higher quality products more efficiently. In the scheme of things the changes we made in the design were significant, but really along the same vein as the old equipment. When we tested the prototypes, we found that for the first day productivity was around 60% of what it had been with the old equipment an quality was down slightly. By the end of the first week of use, productivity was at 80% of what we expected and quality was on target. The productivity gains were much more gradual and it took a total of 5 more weeks for that to settle out at the expected levels. \

That is what the learning curve is all about. The more you use the new camera, the faster you will become proficient in using it, but it is unlikely to happen over night.

[Mike Buckley]

what have been the biggest hurdles when moving to a different camera by the same maker?

Aside from learning all over again how to take a photo, there are no hurdles.

Seriously, there are so many choices to make when using a digital camera that using a different camera requires learning where the controls are located on the new camera. Add to that that a more recent model, especially when it is an upgrade from one series of models to another series of models such as in your case, there will be increased capabilities to master.

I agree with you that intuitively it seems as if making the change shouldn't involve much of a learning curve. However, my experiences after using four Nikon digital cameras is that each change becomes a bit of headache especially because it seems that the learning curve should be almost non-existent.

[Polar01]

Going from one camera model to another it all depends on the person and the so called hurdle. I went from a D7000 to D600 and my biggest hurdle was the ISO button, on one it is the lowest one on the left and on the other it is the second from bottom. The opposite on each controls Raw/Jpeg/file size so I was thinking I was changing ISO and it was file type and size, get home and you go what? So if I am out with a cropped camera I have to check a few times to make sure I have hit the correct button. Other than that for me nothing else really.

Cheers: Allan

[TheBigE]

I look forward to your comments after you have made the switch to a new camera...

Fair enough and I will be sure to put my thoughts back here after the upgrade and some time with the new camera. For now, staying with D5300, that was my plan from the beginning.

.....Just as a bit more information on learning curves - I was the manager of a department that was responsible for developing and introducing new equipment for a large company. We developed a piece of equipment that allowed the employees to produce higher quality products more efficiently. In the scheme of things the changes we made in the design were significant, but really along the same vein as the old equipment. When we tested the prototypes, we found that for the first day productivity was around 60% of what it had been with the old equipment an quality was down slightly. By the end of the first week of use, productivity was at 80% of what we expected and quality was on target. The productivity gains were much more gradual and it took a total of 5 more weeks for that to settle out at the expected levels. \

That is what the learning curve is all about. The more you use the new camera, the faster you will become proficient in using it, but it is unlikely to happen over night.

Interesting results of the upgrade and learning curve. However I would feel that the learning curve is different for each individual. While I am not sure of the scope of the change or how many people were involved, I would be interested to understand the spread in the productivity. 60% percent the first day and lower quality, but then it ramped back up in quality shortly but stayed low on productivity. If that is an aggregate measurement of the entire process, then I would think that some people would be more productive/better quality and other less to give the final average. In other words some people took to it intuitively and others struggled.

Thanks for the feedback!!

[Mike Buckley]

I would feel that the learning curve is different for each individual.

I agree. It is also affected by the degree of difference between the mastered camera and the new camera.

[Manfred M]

Interesting results of the upgrade and learning curve. However I would feel that the learning curve is different for each individual. While I am not sure of the scope of the change or how many people were involved, I would be interested to understand the spread in the productivity. 60% percent the first day and lower quality, but then it ramped back up in quality shortly but stayed low on productivity. If that is an aggregate measurement of the entire process, then I would think that some people would be more productive/better quality and other less to give the final average. In other words some people took to it intuitively and others struggled.

There is absolutely a difference between learning speeds of people, and based on the work that have been done on the subject suggests that the learning curve follows a normal distribution (bell curve). There are outliers that are a lot slower or a lot faster learner, but in the study I was referring to 95% of the employees had reached the level of quality and productivity within the 6 week period (the quality goal was actually achieved within a few days and is part of the reason that overall efficiency lagged).

This is less important when it comes to learning a new camera, but in an industrial production setting, it is quite important. You can't tell your customers that they will be getting lower quality and fewer shipments because the company has introduced new equipment. Mitigation strategies have to be put in place to ensure that the customer does not see any disruption to their requirements because of internal process changes.

[TheBigE]

Resurrecting this thread a bit - I just finished 12 days in the Baltic and I am extremely happy that I waited to upgrade Cameras until after this trip.

For a fact, there is only one instance in which the D7200 would have been desirable...regardless I was able to work around this case. (Low Light Focusing)

Just the familiarity with my current camera and the fact that all system have been tested (computer, import, camera, etc) was a welcome feeling.

However, now since there are no major events in the near future, time to move forward with the upgrade. Thanks everyone for the feedback and help.