Watermarking - An old subject

[Digital]

I have been taking pictures of senior citizens, and under no obligation to me I give them a free 8x10. Most have been appreciative, and I have enjoyed the photo taking immensely. It has come to my attention on two separate occasions that the seniors have been taking the 8x10 and have made copies without ordering prints from me. I realize that this is a violation of copyright laws; however it would be impossible to enforce it.
Which brings me to the intent of this thread. I plan to watermark these 8x10 prints which in effect become 8x10 "proofs", knowing that watermarks can be removed. However by watermarking it may slow the person down from making copies. I am not happy doing it this way; however I am attempting to generate some extra income. Since senior citizens are usually on a fixed income, I do not expect a whole lot of money in this endeavor
I would appreciate any comments, suggestions or even downright criticism of the way I am handling this project.


Bruce

[Shadowman]

Unless the watermark is splattered across the subject's face; I don't think watermarking alone will stop them from copying. How about placing providing some type of electronic version such as a screensaver or photoframe?

[Manfred M]

I agree with John. I suspect that having your signature is not going to stop anyone from running a copy of the print. If you have your name on it, it will probably reflect poorly on you because of the poor quality copies.

[flashback]

Bruce,
Are you making a living at this? If so then you likely need to find a way to keep those pesky (and penurious) seniors from stealing your work. On the other hand if shooting senior citizens (photographically, at least initially ) is a hobby/past time then think of it as free advertising. Sure they can keep ripping off copies to send to the grand kids but 1) you've likely made their day and 2) you never know when one of these chintzy old fogies may ask you to shoot the grand kids, or the entire family. Or I could be completely wrong.

[Digital]

Bruce,
Are you making a living at this? If so then you likely need to find a way to keep those pesky (and penurious) seniors from stealing your work. On the other hand if shooting senior citizens (photographically, at least initially ) is a hobby/past time then think of it as free advertising. Sure they can keep ripping off copies to send to the grand kids but 1) you've likely made their day and 2) you never know when one of these chintzy old fogies may ask you to shoot the grand kids, or the entire family. Or I could be completely wrong.

Jack, I am not a full time photographer; however occasionally I will take money for my work. After the comments I have received, I have decided that I will not watermark the 8x10 prints that I give the senior citizens. One of the reasons that I have decided not to go with a watermark was based on what you said about making their day. In a way that to me is more important than trying to earn a little extra income from this project. There are a lot of intangible benefits in this endeavor.
Also it is good advertising. No telling where those prints will end up.
Thank you.

Bruce

[IzzieK]

If you have photoshop Bruce, next time you do have the opportunity to do another photoshoot again, just make a contact sheet for them to choose which of your shots they like. Then you do not have to be "obliged" to give it to them. I am not being mean, let us say, just logical. Last weekend through no fault of my own, I have to do a shoot of each and every pilot and their airplanes. Senior shots...most of them. But instead of giving everyone a copy, I made a contact sheet two photos per line, three rows for each page and sent it to headquarters for people to choose which copy/ies they want out of the first folder...(I still have 4 more folders to edit)...they can display those contact sheet in Windows Photo Viewer and enlarge it if they want, but they cannot print it as it will only print very small. Anything larger will be pixelated. Maybe the only difference with your audience and mine is that in my husband's flying club, these old pilots like to be photographed with their planes and will pay you for the copy and I had put a proviso that they cannot use my images commercially...

[Digital]

Izzie, thanks for replying. I do have Lightroom, and Photoshop; however I have no printer. I use a commercial lab.




Bruce

[Mike Buckley]

Bruce,

My guess is that the senior citizens didn't know that making copies of the prints you gave to them is a violation of copyright law; the issue is not as common knowledge as we photographers would like to think. Perhaps you need to simply explain to them that though you are providing the one print for free, copyright law forbids them from making copies. Also provide the price of additional prints. Doing so would be consistent with your goals of making a senior citizen happy while at the same time increasing opportunity for generating a little additional income.

[Digital]

Bruce,

My guess is that the senior citizens didn't know that making copies of the prints you gave to them is a violation of copyright law; the issue is not as common knowledge as we photographers would like to think. Perhaps you need to simply explain to them that though you are providing the print for free to them, copyright law forbids them from making copies. Also provide the price of additional prints. Doing so would be consistent with your goals of making a senior citizen happy while at the same time increasing opportunity for generating a little additional income.

Mike, thank you for a very worthwhile suggestion.


Bruce

[IzzieK]

Izzie, thanks for replying. I do have Lightroom, and Photoshop; however I have no printer. I use a commercial lab.

As everyone has internet connections nowadays, you do not have to have a printer to look at a contact sheet. As I had already mentioned, the contact sheet can be displayed on a computer screen using Windows Photo Viewer where they can zoom in and out according to how big they wanted to see the image. It cannot be just printed on paper on their side but they can look, if you know what I mean...


Bruce

[dan marchant]

If you want to treat this as a business and generate money then you need to treat it as a business.
A business targets potential customers who have the disposable income to buy what your selling. Given that, as you point out, these seniors are on a fixed income they don't sound like very good potential customers. Therefore this would seem to be a wasted effort.

if you want to give them free pictures, great go ahead. Just don't expect to make money from it. If instead you want to make money then you need to start targeting potential customers with the money to buy what you are selling.

[shreds]

Of course they will know about copyright and don't believe that just because they are on a fixed income they have no disposable income.

If they are cute enough to be able to make or have made, additional copies, they are not that innocent. And I am sure they would not hesitate to take a pair of scissors to a watermark.

That said, why are you making 8 x 10 prints? If you made smaller ones say 6 x 4, it would be cheaper for you and those who wanted enlargements could pay you for a larger version. Smaller ones would also make less satisfactory copies, but they all still get the satisfaction of 'something for nothing'.

Hoping for business from watermarks is pure fantasy.

[dennybeall]

I would think about the total situation. I give them a free photo with my name on it in the bottom corner. A few of them will have family and friends that see the photos so there may be some potential additional business. The nurses, CNA's and doctors also may see the photos and perhaps need a photographer.
Sure, a few will make illegal copies and some will toss the photos but the odds are best with the free photos.

[Digital]

Of course they will know about copyright and don't believe that just because they are on a fixed income they have no disposable income.

If they are cute enough to be able to make or have made, additional copies, they are not that innocent. And I am sure they would not hesitate to take a pair of scissors to a watermark.

That said, why are you making 8 x 10 prints? If you made smaller ones say 6 x 4, it would be cheaper for you and those who wanted enlargements could pay you for a larger version. Smaller ones would also make less satisfactory copies, but they all still get the satisfaction of 'something for nothing'.

Hoping for business from watermarks is pure fantasy.

Ian, did you read my earlier post (#5) where I stated that I decided not to use a watermark due to the fact that I get more satisfaction out of giving them a print ( yes, even an 8x10) than any potential profit that I may realize from this endeavor. So far the "they' you are referring to has, in my opinion, been a very small minority. A large majority of the seniors have been appreciative of my efforts, and I believe that most are honest. I agree with Mike Buckley in that educating the seniors on copyright laws may even reduce the instances of making copies. When I started this project the intent was not to generate any income from my photographs. This grew out of a question I was asked about what I charge for a print. As stated earlier, and worth repeating is that I get more satisfaction out of making the senior's day than any monetary gains that I may receive.


Bruce

[IzzieK]

Good man...! Life is not all about money, Bruce, although it helps here and there. Continue with your good work...the reward of satisfaction on both sides between your clients and you is much better than anything money can buy. A lot of these old folks have stories to tell...and so will you when you get to their age.