Birds in flight

[FeatherMonkey]

Now I get the principle, but need to clarify. I'm in the lucky position of being able to get a bird to fly at the camera nearly on demand. So subject sorted.

I'm struggling to still the wings. I'm doing this indoors with 1 speedlite and a Canon 600d got Canon 50mm, Sigma 105mm and Sigma 18-250mm.

So fast shutter 1/1000, 1/800 should be OK? been using f6.3 but thinking I'll need to close this further for an effective dof? I keep missing focus using ai servo.

So can I do this, am I just asking too much from one speedlite and lenses? Is this just a subject that needs flooding with light? Any tips or advice on what I'm missing.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Stef,

You haven't said what size the bird is, so advising on a choice of lens, not knowing whether you have a budgerigar or a bald eagle flying toward you is a bit tricky

Also the speed it approaches would be useful to know, I can imagine that if the lenses are not fitted with their own hypersonic focus motors, then the lenses may not be able to keep track of the bird coming to you.

I assume you are using single focus point and have no difficulty keeping that on the subject as it approaches and also there's no contrasty background that the focus system might decide is more 'attractive' than your subject.

I am not a Canon shooter, but if you're using 1/1000s (well above normal maximum flash/shutter sync speed) I assume you have the speedlite switched to HSS mode?

Please show us an example shot, it would help us a lot, to help you.

Cheers, Dave

[FeatherMonkey]

Hi Dave..
Really not had much joy this is probably my best shot/example IMG_5089
Sigma 18-250mm exif implies at 50mm with 1/800, f6.3 and iso 400. Is underexposed not touched much a crop, levels and wb.

Focus was ai servo looking in manual center focus point first, then will follow. Exif implies 4 focus points hit, from what I can work out dof is a shallow one(higher aperture thinking) around front of wings to feet. Yet it's still poor focus.

As for hss yes can't select above 200 if not, initially tried but that is way to slow.

Edit lens does imply hsm Sigma a 18-250 f3.5-6.3

Thanks Dave

[Loose Canon]

Hi Stef!

So can I do this, am I just asking too much from one speedlite and lenses? Is this just a subject that needs flooding with light? Any tips or advice on what I'm missing.

There are a couple of ways you might go about this shot.

One would be to allow the flash to stop the wings. In order to do this you will of course be shooting at x-sync (1/200th). But, and this is a big but, you will have to make sure all ambient light is taken out of the mix. If you have too much ambient it will affect the shot and will cause motion blur at that shutter speed. The way to tell is by taking a shot without the flash firing. If you get a totally black frame you have killed the ambient. You don’t necessarily have to turn off all room lights, but have little enough that it won’t affect the exposure at 1/200th (black frame). Keep in mind, however, that low light will affect your autofocus speed adversely. You will also need to fire the flash with as low a power setting as you can get away with (maybe by opening the lens more) to keep your flash duration as short as possible.

Then the other way, which is how you are going about it, is to allow the shutter to stop the wings. For this you will need enough ambient (continuous) to get the shutter speed fast enough to stop the action (flood with light). If using flash naturally this will be HSS (HSS causes the flash to act as a continuous light source) and that may still not be enough light to get a good exposure at the shutter you need. You may need additional ambient (continuous) light. I think your shutter is just too slow with the technique you are using.

I also think your idea is the right approach because you are trying to focus on a moving subject which would put your autofocus at a disadvantage in a low light room. But watch using mixed color lighting (your flash and room lights), which will affect your white balance. If you have a gray card now is a good time to use it in the lighting you come up with to set balance in post.

A great exercise Stef. I personally think you can do it and get a cool shot out of it!

[FeatherMonkey]

Thanks Terry,
Have to confess not got a grey card yet, do find their beaks work quite well. Must get one soon also as using avian daylight bulbs can't say I'm seeing much mixing seems quite similar to the flash.

Thank you for the ambient tip, never could quite work out whether the ambient was affecting the shot. I concur not sure using flash sync will get the shot. I also suspect I can boost the light by using the daylight at the right time. Pushing the shutter speed makes sense I really did think I'd of been close at that speed tbh.

I will persevere I suspect I'll have plenty of junk shots before I get this down.

[Dave Humphries]

Exif implies 4 focus points hit, from what I can work out dof is a shallow one(higher aperture thinking) around front of wings to feet. Yet it's still poor focus.

We know we'd like the bird's head and beak to be sharp; problem is the camera doesn't - so it seems to have chosen that nice colourful tail instead.

Although that said, for shots like this where the subject is rapidly approaching the camera, the 'delay' in focus lock and firing the shutter means that even if the EXIF showed a single focus on the beak as successful, sometimes - no make that oftentimes - the result can still be as shown.

At these fairly short shooting distances, Depth of Field, or lack thereof, at 50mm and f/6.3 is going to be a problem too I suspect.

I will persevere I suspect I'll have plenty of junk shots before I get this down.

Yep, I can guarantee that, but please do persevere - eventually you'll get something to be proud of - because you'll know how darn difficult it was.

[IzzieK]

I'd like to say, if it will be helpful, that I do not shoot with a fill light and if I do, it is very, very seldom. What I do is put my Auto ISO on so that all I have to do is work on my SS and Aperture. Fast shutter speed for BIF and then just adjust the aperture to suit. Pretty much like working on the Exposure Triangle but with the ISO already taken cared of by putting it on auto...tell you what though...I have to have a certain amount of light in the room or near the bird.

[FeatherMonkey]

Once again thanks Dave have to admit I underestimated the difficulty. I'll keep giving it a go next time hopefully I'll be posting a keeper.

[dje]

Hi Stef, I'm no expert on BIF but it looks to me like you have quite a difficult situation there. Because you are so close to the bird, it looks like you need a shutter speed somewhat faster than 1/800 to freeze the wings. Possibly something up around the 1/2000 mark. This then reduces the amount of light and makes exposure difficult. You have to trade off wider aperture to get more light against too shallow a DOF. Somewhere around f/6.3 might be the optimum.

One thing I would do for a start is set your ISO to the maximum you can get away with until noise becomes an issue. I used to have a 600D and wouldn't go above ISO 800.

I'm not sure whether HSS flash will help or not but if I were you I would be investigating that further. HSS is the only way you will be able to use fast shutter speeds with flash. You need to check whether your Speedlite is capable of it. If it is, it then depends whether you get enough power out of it to provide effective lighting. Being close to the bird will help.

Dave

[TonyW]

With my camera (canon 5d3), using ai servo with centre point focusing means that the focus is kept on the central point of the frame as the subject moves. If your image is as shown and not cropped, then you would expect the focus to be on the centre point, which seems to be around the tail, rather than on the head where you might want it. If you use more than the single centre point, then with ai servo the focus is supposed to follow the subject as it moves, depending on how the cases are chosen. If your camera is similar, it might be worth trying with more focus points.

[dennybeall]

I would set manual focus with steady light for good DOF and set the camera to fire as fast as it can.
Focusing on a moving object moving across the scene is easiest, toward or away from you is hardest.

[inkista]

+1 on Dave's comments. 1/1000 easily may not be fast enough to freeze bird wings in motion.

I'd also learn to use AI-servo AF, together with back button autofocus, so that the tracking will continue smoothly even as you mash the shutter button.

[pnodrog]

When you use a flash in HSS mode it no longer contributes to freezing motion. You may in fact get a better result by keeping the exposure time at 1/200 or 1/250 depending on the X sync spec. Stop down to gain more DOF and add another flash so the lighting is predominantly from flash and as they are not at full power the flash length will be shorter. I think you will get a far better freezing action with this approach than by using faster shutter speeds.

[FeatherMonkey]

Thanks Izzie, Tony, Dave, Paul, Denny and Kathy.

Got plenty to contemplate and 2 clearly defined ways. Have to admit both ways seem to bring plenty of challenges. Looks like I either have to flood the room with light, or still with flashes.

Of to order another flash, I wonder if I can get them to ignore 2 umbrellas. I know there's a shot in this, now to catch it.

[IzzieK]

Don't give up...it is persistence that helps us learn...and patience...

[FeatherMonkey]

A little update..

Flash seems to be the way to go got a little test shot. Pre-focused,
f5.6 iso200 1/200 needed a little more dof and better background why the vignette.

IMG_5671

[Loose Canon]

From your test shot it looks like you got it going on Stef! Looks a lot better to me than the first one and also looks like you are accomplishing your goals better.

If it were me I’d much prefer using flash(es) to stop the bird’s wings if it didn’t make focusing too iffy. More control over lighting, which would probably make for a more interesting shot than just flooding the room with enough light to get a fast shutter. And one could change the lighting scheme around to try different things if one wanted.

Please do keep posting if you continue to pursue this Stef. Very interesting shot you are setting up and a great use of flash! Can’t say I’ve seen any indoor BIF’s shot with flash before!

[FeatherMonkey]

Thank you Terry, yeah was the quite pleased still tricky. Pre-focusing certainly is a component with the 9 points of af I've got. Low light and focusing isn't quite going to do it. A burst as flying through seems to catch more. Going to have to add another speedlite to the equation. Literally 1 to the left in the floor an opposite should do it I reckon.

I'll definitely be back, they are quite happy flying to me. Now to do them justice and get the shot.

[Cantab]

A little update..

Flash seems to be the way to go got a little test shot. Pre-focused,
f5.6 iso200 1/200 needed a little more dof and better background why the vignette.

IMG_5671

A good rear end shot. Now you just have to get your bird to change direction!
More seriously, this is an interesting thread and I'm looking forward to the next installment. Thanks for posting.