Need help with skin tones, etc

[William W]

. . . I am still working on this but there are a couple of questions and comments arising . . .

Firstly, I don't see what relevance the in camera white balance has when I use a raw file only.

Manfred’s response has addressed this from the Post Production end: and so too, indirectly, has William C Boyer’s response addressed this from the shooting end.

Those are two main points for consideration and each is expanded here:

1. (expanding on what Manfred wrote) Your camera is very sophisticated and under certain circumstances it will nuance ALL the White Balance parameters when set to AWB. When we open the raw file it will open Colour Temperature and Tint “As Shot”. When we are shooting a BATCH in the SAME LIGHTING SCENARIO, if we have the constant staring point then we have two leverages:

> the first being that, if we have made an accurate Manual White Balance prior to the shoot, then we are ahead of the game in PP

> the second is, if there is any variation in the LIGHTING within the batch we have a standard starting point for all shots, from which we can make internal comparisons of images within that batch

(obviously we could set AWB and then laboriously open each file of any one batch and set each one to a standard staring point)


2. (please refer to wm c boyer Post #16) Specifically note that the histogram (and also the blinkies) are referenced from the camera’s JPEG File. When setting AWB, and then if the AWB is “incorrect” (although mostly always minimal) that will have a direct erroneous effect on the histogram (and blinkies) parameters and readout. So if one is using the Histogram (or blinkies) as a working aid for EXPOSURE one needs to be aware of these potential skews in the Histogram (and blinkies) readout.

Noting that this effect is always mostly minimal - but it can be more severe when AWB is computing a scene (similar to your sample) in which there is:

> hard direct sun 1000hrs to 1400hrs (approx Colour Temperature Range 5000°K ~ 6500°K)

and

> open shade (approx Colour Temperature Range 9000°K ~ 10000°K)

Note also that as the AWB attempts to compute an answer for a scene of mixed Colour Temperature within a scene; between the different shots is more common to attain more different AWB readings (and hence more “As Shot” starting points for Post Production)

I suggest that you not place too much emphasis Manual White Balance at this point in time: the task at hand and the question is about the Post Production of this group of images, but, it would be a good idea to have a look at and note the range of the “As Shot” values for ‘Colour Temperature’ and ‘Tint’, when you open each successive raw file.

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In the second shot, I did not play at all with the colours except that I might have changed the contrast and exposure in pp. There was definitely no deliberate use of saturation. I subsequently looked at what happened when I changed the white balance in ACR. The choices offered were as shot, auto or custom. Auto did not look right to me. In light of your comment about the orange cast, I will look at it again and try something in between as shot and auto.

Understood. Thank you for the details.

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In the first shot, I think the problems originate from the over-exposure and my attempts to recover from that which were clearly not successful. The over-exposure was worse in the first shot because of shadows in the background which the camera adjusted for. I agree that in this sort of situation it is best to use a manual setting and stick to it (provide you get it right in the first place). Both shots looked sharp enough to me and nobody has commented on that so that I don't think the shutter speed in itself was a problem except for its contribution to the exposure.

Yes I think you are correct. Clearly you cannot recover those skin tones which are two stops over exposed when using a 5DMkIII, (only some film stocks will give one that latitude).

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The 5diii I believe has good ISO performance and 800 is quite a low value under normal circumstances. It is only when there are dark areas that have to be lightened a lot and/or when I want to crop very heavily that I would worry about that.

I think, that is good thinking.

WW

[William W]

Tony,

As a general comment, for any task which requires me shooting on the hop, I really like to work “simple” that means I like all the technical stuff squared away so my job ONLY comprises:

Anticipate the Moment;
Get to the best Camera Viewpoint;
Lock Focus;
Re-Frame the Shot;
Shoot
. . . next . . . etc

So, referencing the above, maybe these general comments will be of assistance:

If I were standing next to you at the side of the court last weekend with my 5DmkII and 70 to 200/2.8 mounted and the Girls were good athletes in the 16 to 18 years grade player group - my best guess is that I would have set:

1.
A) M Mode: F/10 @ 1/2000s @ ISO1000 (for shooting with the sun) (⅓Stop Over Exposed for highlights to recover in post)

B) then when necessary (two finger clicks) M Mode: F/10 @ 1/800s @ ISO1000 (for shooting when the girls were backlit or in open shade) (⅓Stop UNDER Exposed for highlights to recover in post) (still maintaining 1/800s Tv to arrest Subject Movement)

C) I would have moved quickly so as to rarely have to shoot any player back lit - it's hideous (see Shadowman's Post#6)

D) I would not have used the TTL meter for the first setting (for the Direct Sunlight) but I would have checked the EV for the shade reading, using the TTl Meter.

2.
Set WB K = 6000°

3.
AF functionality and shooting technique as per response Post #17

4.
Capture raw + JPEG (L) (probably use the JPEG SOOC, with my daylight preset picture style with a basic standard two stage sharpening PP and probably crop tighter for some and necessary CT correction for shots in shade)

That might seem self-opinionated. But it isn’t. For example there has been a lot of work and an incredible amount of time in my experimenting with Picture Styles in each of my EOS and Fuji Cameras.

It could also appear as an awful lot of “dumbing down” for an EOS 5 Series camera. And it is. But all the bells and whistles on my 5 Series Cameras do not change these points, applicable to this particular shooting scenario:

> I (probably) need 1/800s or faster to stop those girls

> I need F/10 to get adequate DoF for close two person play or a tight shot on goal

> The exposure so as not to blow the skin in direct sun is, definitively: F/16 @ 1/X @ ISO X

> Open Winter Sunlight in Brissy is, about 6000°K

> Setting Manual WB will give me a comparison reference between and for all shots for the whole day’s shoot

> I am confident to push my 5DmkII ±⅓ Stop and to correct in Post Production (if necessary)

> I don't fancy spending any time in Post Production, I'd rather be shooting

WW