Editing Red

[Shadowman]

I know the original is highly underexposed, but am using the photo for discussion on editing reds; whether flowers, clothing, or skintones.



The biggest issue during the edit was removing the noise associated with the high ISO I used.
f/10, ISO 1000, 1/640 sec. This was a quick capture as the camera settings were quickly chosen as I was earlier working on capturing sharp image without blowing out the sky. Editing consisted of increasing exposure in LR, using Dfine to remove noise, adjusting red/magenta sliders to cool down the reds (didn't affect image too much), making levels adjustment. Didn't apply any sharpening yet. Heavily cropped final image.

[xpatUSA]

I know the original [see OP] is highly underexposed, but am using the photo for discussion on editing reds; whether flowers, clothing, or skintones.

John, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for. General, or specific to your recovery method as described in the OP?

P.S. you've captured a classic moment there - depicting the epi-center of modern teenage life.

[Shadowman]

John, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you're looking for. General, or specific to your recovery method as described in the OP?

P.S. you've captured a classic moment there - depicting the epi-center of modern teenage life.

Hi Ted,

Thanks for the comments. Looking for discussion on editing techniques for the color red, I'm sure all colors have their own particular editing issues; but I feel red is the most difficult.

[bnnrcn]

The colors look a bit pale in your edit John. May be you should add some saturation

[xpatUSA]

Looking for discussion on editing techniques for the color red, I'm sure all colors have their own particular editing issues; but I feel red is the most difficult.

One editing technique - if you can call it that - is to do any editing needed in ProPhoto working space so as to initially avoid the saturation limit of sRGB. Then change the working space to sRGB and check for bottomed out channels which will generally be "opposite" to the main color of the flower, e.g. cyans for red, blues for yellow, greens for purple, etc. If necessary, reduce saturation slightly until the offending color un-bottoms itself. Usually takes only a slight reduction.

Lately been using an app called Show Image that is quite good for checking sRGB image colors in RGB, HSV, HSL and even CMYK spaces.

[Shadowman]

The colors look a bit pale in your edit John. May be you should add some saturation

Hi Binnur,,

Thanks for the comments and critique. The paleness is perhaps from the color edting I did, reducing the luminance of the red/magenta.

[tclune]

I also find red challenging to shoot. One thing that helps is to use the red histogram when you're shooting, and make sure you don't blow that channel. The greyscale histogram is very misleading when you are looking to capture a particular color channel (blue has the same issue IME). You may have to significantly underexpose the image to keep the red channel on-scale. This is one of those situations where the large dynamic range of most modern cameras is very useful, because you can bring up the rest of the image in post as needed. Of course, if you're shooting at elevated ISO, you lose that advantage...

[Shadowman]

One editing technique - if you can call it that - is to do any editing needed in ProPhoto working space so as to initially avoid the saturation limit of sRGB. Then change the working space to sRGB and check for bottomed out channels which will generally be "opposite" to the main color of the flower, e.g. cyans for red, blues for yellow, greens for purple, etc. If necessary, reduce saturation slightly until the offending color un-bottoms itself. Usually takes only a slight reduction.

Lately been using an app called Show Image that is quite good for checking sRGB image colors in RGB, HSV, HSL and even CMYK spaces.

Ted,

Thanks for the information, current editing program only allows RGB editing, unless I get my hands on Photoshop copy again.

[Shadowman]

I also find red challenging to shoot. One thing that helps is to use the red histogram when you're shooting, and make sure you don't blow that channel. The greyscale histogram is very misleading when you are looking to capture a particular color channel (blue has the same issue IME). You may have to significantly underexpose the image to keep the red channel on-scale. This is one of those situations where the large dynamic range of most modern cameras is very useful, because you can bring up the rest of the image in post as needed. Of course, if you're shooting at elevated ISO, you lose that advantage...

Tom,

Image was significantly underexposed and compromised by high ISO setting.

[xpatUSA]

Ted,

Thanks for the information, current editing program only allows RGB editing, unless I get my hands on Photoshop copy again.

Sorry, John, didn't know LR couldn't do that; I've never used it. And my cameras use Sigma Photo Pro which can select from several working color spaces. I'm almost guilty of that PS thing - thinking that if I can do it, everybody else can ;-)

Ever tried RawTherapee?

[Shadowman]

Sorry, John, didn't know LR couldn't do that; I've never used it. And my cameras use Sigma Photo Pro which can select from several working color spaces. I'm almost guilty of that PS thing - thinking that if I can do it, everybody else can ;-)

Ever tried RawTherapee?

Haven't tried RawTherapee, might have to give it a go.

[tclune]

Tom,

Image was significantly underexposed and compromised by high ISO setting.

In your OP you had said that you wre interested in a general discussion of working with red. That was what I was responding to, not the particular image posted. FWIW

[Thlayle]

Ted,

Thanks for the information, current editing program only allows RGB editing, unless I get my hands on Photoshop copy again.

John,

I am using LR CC and using the Tone Curve allows for editing the red channel, but I have found it is sometimes easy to miss that because the tone curve module is set by default to 'region editing' and that does NOT allow editing the individual channels. There is a little icon shaped like a curve line to the lower right by the tone curve window. Clicking on that toggles off the 'region' editing of the curve and then you can choose between 'RGB' and the three color channels.

Also, I have had some good luck with the HSL module, adjusting both the saturation and lightness of the red colors.

This image was overwhelmed by the reds when I shot it. It was the red channel that I used mainly to bring them under control:



-Randy

[Shadowman]

In your OP you had said that you wre interested in a general discussion of working with red. That was what I was responding to, not the particular image posted. FWIW

Tom,

I read somewhere that including red in a composition makes for a very strong image, any suggestions are appreciated and only comparing posted image to your thoughts in hopes of improving in-camera as well as editing methods used later.

[Shadowman]

John,

I am using LR CC and using the Tone Curve allows for editing the red channel, but I have found it is sometimes easy to miss that because the tone curve module is set by default to 'region editing' and that does NOT allow editing the individual channels. There is a little icon shaped like a curve line to the lower right by the tone curve window. Clicking on that toggles off the 'region' editing of the curve and then you can choose between 'RGB' and the three color channels.

Also, I have had some good luck with the HSL module, adjusting both the saturation and lightness of the red colors.

This image was overwhelmed by the reds when I shot it. It was the red channel that I used mainly to bring them under control:



-Randy

Randy,

Thanks for the suggestions and example posted. That metallic red definitely has to be a challenge to photograph, I'm working on a few still life images using red plastic and I'm experimenting with white balance and flash. I know the white balance can be adjusted later if shooting RAW, but the LCD image looks so off setting that it makes me adjust settings that may not need it.

[Shadowman]

Used red plastic tracking ball from computer mouse and plastic container. Placed both on a dark gray cloth inside cardboard box. So much to correct with other sections of this image (the white reflection from window, the cloth color, the dust particles), but posting to see what I believe to be accurate representation of the red color.

f/11, ISO 200, 1.0sec.

[Thlayle]

Used red plastic tracking ball from computer mouse and plastic container. Placed both on a dark gray cloth inside cardboard box. So much to correct with other sections of this image (the white reflection from window, the cloth color, the dust particles), but posting to see what I believe to be accurate representation of the red color.

f/11, ISO 200, 1.0sec.

So, when you refer to the 'accurate representation of the red color' are you primarily working at the hue, to see that it is 'true' red?

[Shadowman]

So, when you refer to the 'accurate representation of the red color' are you primarily working at the hue, to see that it is 'true' red?

Visually "red" or as close to my perceived sense of the actual red. The camera sees something totally different.

[Loose Canon]

Actually John, the red in the plastic canister looks a little hot to me in spots.

I don't know if this is relevant, but when I need colors bang on, I use a Colorchecker target.

[Thlayle]

Visually "red" or as close to my perceived sense of the actual red. The camera sees something totally different.

I have had the hardest time with that 'trueness' (sensed in the same way as you: by how I perceive it) in some situations, though kind of rarely. After I went to the Capitol Reef NP in Utah, I had a tough time deciding on the 'correct' red hues of all those different clay and rock formations. Even when I was there, the reds did mind-boggling things. You could even see them reflected in the few clouds overhead.

I have not made a habit of trying for color matching by any other method than just my perception & memory. Fortunately, this hasn't matter so much, given the shooting I do. Still, I have regretted this approach at times, not knowing for certain how to be confident I have matched the colors of a scene, such as with my Capitol Reef experience.