What is a digital negative?

[THaNaToZ]

As I've started to build out creating my service profile, I've noticed on several photographer websites that they offer digital negatives. I know for my wedding, I was given all the JPGs as part of the agreement.
I tried googling this and the answers vary quite a bit and I'm sure they might here...
so what the heck is a digital negative?

[Manfred M]

Often the camera raw files are referred to as "digital negatives".

It's a term I've never really cared for, as digital photography is not a negative / positive process.

[xpatUSA]

The term itself was hi-jacked by Adobe who intend it to refer to Adobe's "DNG" format which, basically, is a jazzed-up TIFF format. As to it's purpose, googling will show many explanations - based on your camera's own raw files becoming obsoleted and made inaccessible by succeeding versions of the maker's converter or by the maker going out of business and no longer supporting the said converter. Personally, I keep the keeper raws and dump the TIFFs - but à chacun son goût, eh?

Never DNG for me, because the Adobe raw to DNG converter is pretty poor for my Sigma SD14 and DP1 cameras and doesn't work at all with my SD1 Merrill.

So anyway, Adobe could get a bit peeved if someone called their NEF files "digital negatives" but probably nobody else will care.

[Manfred M]

Ted - I know that Adobe does use that terminology, but it was in common use to describe raw files well before the introduction of the dng format.

I'm also not a dng user, but more because raw converters proliferate and improve with each new release. I'm not too worried about the obsolescence concerns as there are just too many out there for that to be a real practical concern.

[Donald]

I think what you can take from what the other guys have written, Ankit, that it is a meaningless term.

With film, you get a negative (or a positive if you were shooting slide film). A negative was a 'thing'. You could hold it in your hands. With digital, the basic raw data is contained in the raw file. It from that that you prepare your image and, ultimately, if you wish to do so, your print.

So, it is a term that is meant to make some connection with the digital world and the previously universal film system of capturing images.

The interesting thing is that the whole idea of using film and producing negatives is something that that vast majority of people taking pictures nowadays know nothing about. So the concept/linkage will be totally lost on them.

[xpatUSA]

Ted - I know that Adobe does use that terminology, but it was in common use to describe raw files well before the introduction of the dng format.

Thanks, Manfred, I stand corrected - indeed, I had originally said "invented by" but changed that pretty quick to "coined" because I wasn't real sure.

Ankit, in the OP, I wonder what kind of digital negative was being offered "on several photographer websites"?

[Geoff F]

I convert everything to DNG as part of the download process. It only takes a couple of seconds extra per image when using the Bridge downloading option.

Smaller file size than my Raw data and no 'sidecar' files to worry about. And quite a bit smaller than Tiff.

In theory, DNG should be universal and still useable long after some of the early Raw formats are just a bit of history.

When I got my Fuji 'pocket camera' Adobe wouldn't recognise the files; and the same problem occurred when I upgraded my 7D to the Mk II model. So I had to transfer the Raw files to DNG before I could open them in CS5 Bridge. But all acceptable now in CC.

[davidedric]

OTOH another, less literal and less technical, interpretation could be "your starting point", as in Jeff Schewe's "The Digital Negative"

Dave

[xpatUSA]

OTOH another, less literal and less technical, interpretation could be "your starting point", as in Jeff Schewe's "The Digital Negative"

Dave

OTOOH, said gentleman does have, or did have, quite close ties to Adobe - and so the wheel turns . .

[lukaswerth]

DNG or whatever, there is another use of the term, and it's not meaningless: "digital negative" refers to a printout in negative form (highlights dark, shadows bright), mostly on overhead foil (Mitsubishi's pictorico is often used for this) which is needed in order to get an analog print as final result, either on b/w paper, or on a hand-coated emulsion, as it is done with platinum/palladium prints, kallitypes, cyanotypes, chrysotypes, gum prints, oil prints...
A digital negative is mostly made in the size of the intended print (for contact printing, that is), and is also a very good interface for original analog negatives (which you would need, for instance, for pinhole work which cannot be done very well digitally). There are different methods to make digital negatives, it's an art in itself.

Lukas

[tao2]

DNG or whatever, there is another use of the term, and it's not meaningless: "digital negative" refers to a printout in negative form (highlights dark, shadows bright), mostly on overhead foil (Mitsubishi's pictorico is often used for this) which is needed in order to get an analog print as final result, either on b/w paper, or on a hand-coated emulsion, as it is done with platinum/palladium prints, kallitypes, cyanotypes, chrysotypes, gum prints, oil prints...
A digital negative is mostly made in the size of the intended print (for contact printing, that is), and is also a very good interface for original analog negatives (which you would need, for instance, for pinhole work which cannot be done very well digitally). There are different methods to make digital negatives, it's an art in itself.

Lukas

+1

[xpatUSA]

+2, Lukas,

I had never read of that process, we live and learn . . .

http://www.ppmag.com/web-exclusives/...negatives.html

"digital negative" for me now joins the ranks of such as "resolution" and becomes a phrase which should qualified whenever mentioned. Or, as is more normal in photographic fora, just use it by itself and let people guess what is meant . . .

[rpcrowe]

I converted my RAW files to DNG for one episode of my photography. For some reason I did not seem to get the best quality from DNG. That was very likely "USER ERROR" but never the less, I shoot in RAW and don't convert the RAW files to DNG....

I keep the RAW files untouched. Them after I have opened my RAW file and done some basic PP such as input sharpening, color balancing, and working with the various Photoshop and NIK tools I save the uncropped images without output sharpening as my Master Files in PSD (Photoshop) format.

Then I can make my final crops with sharpening from these files.

I learned this workflow from a local Photoshop Instructor. It really comes in handy when you need different sizes and different crops from your work. As an example, I shoot all of my dog portraits in the horizontal or landscape format and save them as horizontal (landscape) format PSD files after initial PP but before cropping and output sharpening. I can then crop vertical or portrait formats or square formats from these and save them for my eventual use in whatever format I need. However, if I need a horizontal image (like for a calendar), I don't have to go back to the RAW file and reinvent the wheel by doing the initial PP all over again...

[dennybeall]

Just a comment Richard in support of that work flow. I've been doing the same since digital came around and its always worked very well for me also.
Have to get a plug in for Rescue also: Here's our current "rescue" finishing her first bath in the back yard.

[THaNaToZ]

hmmm...let me start over as I think these responses went in a different direction than I'm looking for.

Our subdivision has a group and someone asked for photographer recommendations. I had taken a look at the websites (competition) posted by other neighbors and photographers are offering "digital negatives". (I'm not going to link to them).
So I doubt they are offering the camera raw files. I did not even receive these for my wedding (although I think he shot straight jpg).

So my question is, what are those negatives. Just the untouched jpgs? Something else? I have found this on numerous sites, facebook pages, etc.

[rpcrowe]

Neat dog and even neater family for doing rescue. Rescuing one dog doesn't change the world but, it changes the world for that one dog!

[Manfred M]

Ankit - my wife and daughter had some shots done by a commercial photographer who provided hard copy prints as well as jpegs and "digital negatives' on a CD. The "digital negatives" ended up being Canon CR2 raw files (I have the CD so I know that this is the case).

As you can see, the term "digital negative" is not a particularly well defined term, so you might want to ask what the photographer means by that. Frankly, as long as the white balance is reasonably close and the files are high quality, full size jpegs, I could live with that and make any tweaks I want in Photoshop.

[jcuknz]

I see and get a digital negative as suggested #10 above when I use my editing tool to make a negative version of a file ... but I doubt if that is what those firms are offering