Test shots of BIF..(Pic Heavy)

[FeatherMonkey]

Well revisited but this is just damn hard I've got a few here looking for any advice or hints I'm getting close but just cant quite see what I'm missing...

So these are what I'm aiming for, as test shots know the bg is messy just trying to nail the shot before setting up the bg. Some heavy pp done just to get these. They just dont seem to be sharp I cant quite work out if its soft lens, missed focus, movement blur or even dof problems..

C&C always appreciated.

Most if not all are
f10
1/200
flash
iso 400

1)
IMG_7470

2)
IMG_7471

3)
IMG_7477

4)
IMG_7480

5)
IMG_7489

6)
IMG_7497

I so want one like these pin sharp, so closed aperture still more.
7) f20
IMG_7504

8) f20
IMG_7507

Can we get any where pushed all the way
f20
iso 400-6400(A few)
1/4000
hss
flash
Straight jpg just to see if I could get more before buffer, also hoping to catch extra in flash recycle. No real room for pp.
9)
IMG_7541

10)
IMG_7539

11) This seems to of stilled it... But a rarity...
IMG_7536

12)Earlier 1/1000 why I pushed it all the way wing blurring, so guessed too fast for camera.
IMG_7521

13)Early slower iso 400 1/1000
IMG_7519

Sorry for pic heavy not really looking for specific pic C&C but always welcomed. I'm just not sure the lens is up to it Sigma 18-250 f3.5-6.3, but that's not the wing blurring. I really thought 1/4000 would of stopped them dead.

Bonus seem to of chosen a focal length between 30-45mm so suspect my nifty 50mm may be workable.

This is so damned hard....

[Shadowman]

Looks like you are too close to the subject to anticipate the bird's movements. Nice series.

[bnnrcn]

Hi Stef Although I'm not a bird shooter I know how hard it is and I agree with John about being too close to your subject. If I was a beginner in bird shooting I would try some shots of big birds outside with a long lens. IMO this would make it easier to catch the focus on the moving bird. I really wonder the comments of the experts in CinC about the matter

[FeatherMonkey]

Thanks John so you reckon it's missed focus? I'm just not sure I've closed the lens all the way thought I had given myself the thickest dof 7-8 are f20 not punched figures in so perhaps your correct. It's just to close?

As for anticipating that's not the problem they won't come till called had the af set on AI Servo tried body and eye, I'm still thinking the lens TBH, maybe the af is just not up to it in this entry level body.

[FeatherMonkey]

Thanks Binnur think I've answered in my response to John I'm still not quite convinced. I'll go and punch some figures into a dof calc(Bit of a new one for me) see what it's telling me.

[FeatherMonkey]

Well that's interesting, reckon launch is 8-9 ft away punching figures reckon you're both correct.

Best I got was 2.7ft - 4ft in front of launch this has become a maths problem... Reckon 4ft is doable, but can I get more guessing wider... Looking at figures wound down and closed at 18mm f20 I'll get just under 6ft brief look I'll need some real cropping at 18mm.

Think I need to grasp this dof a bit better. Don't really want wide, much rather find a way of increasing the front dof ideally at 50mm or wishful thinking 105mm but that's way to far away.

[Shadowman]

Thanks John so you reckon it's missed focus? I'm just not sure I've closed the lens all the way thought I had given myself the thickest dof 7-8 are f20 not punched figures in so perhaps your correct. It's just to close?

As for anticipating that's not the problem they won't come till called had the af set on AI Servo tried body and eye, I'm still thinking the lens TBH, maybe the af is just not up to it in this entry level body.

Stef,

It may be a combination of all three or more variables: camera, lens, communication between lens and camera, and distance from subject. You didn't mention which camera you are using, how many frames per second does it shoot, have you tried shooting multiple frames, altering your method of holding the camera? A good exercise might be to photograph a constantly moving object from different distances, also is f/10 the sharpest aperture for this particular lens? You might want to do some tests on the lens at different apertures.

[Brownbear]

Hi Stef,

Just to say that I agree with John and Binnur, and think it would be a lot easier if you could put some more distance between yourself and your parrot. Perhaps setting up in a long hallway would be possible?

BIF are always challenging to photograph, and even more so when they are coming straight at you especially when in such close proximity (requiring a faster shutter speed) with a bird cage behind you. I've captured large birds coming straight at me in close proximity at f/8 and SS 1/1600 but the background is typically sky or water, much easier to do than what you're trying to do. If you can manage more distance between you and the bird you'll be able to use a larger aperture. Your focus looks great to me, nice and sharp on the birds head and eyes. Personally I like the motion blur seen when used with lower shutter speeds on fast flying birds.

I've never tried anything similar to what your trying but if I were to do so I would practice by trying to capture the BIF from a side position, first (easier), and I would set up my background prior to trying to nail the shot so grabbing and keeping focus on the bird was easier. (no competing objects) I've no experience with flash so I don't know how that effects your choice of settings.


Anyhow I imagine what you're trying to do is extraordinarily difficult and that more space, taken from a side angle (before the head on shot but then again you've managed the focus so perhaps not) with your unobstructed background set up, while you practice might be worth a try. Or if 100% safe for your bird take him/her outside?

[FeatherMonkey]

Stef,

It may be a combination of all three or more variables: camera, lens, communication between lens and camera, and distance from subject. You didn't mention which camera you are using, how many frames per second does it shoot, have you tried shooting multiple frames, altering your method of holding the camera? A good exercise might be to photograph a constantly moving object from different distances, also is f/10 the sharpest aperture for this particular lens? You might want to do some tests on the lens at different apertures.

Hi John,
Using 600d, on tripod so stable, frames per sec is down to flash recycle best was 2 already on multi shot. You could well be right about lens. Christina alludes to something similar.

Hi Stef,

Just to say that I agree with John and Binnur, and think it would be a lot easier if you could put some more distance between yourself and your parrot. Perhaps setting up in a long hallway would be possible?

BIF are always challenging to photograph, and even more so when they are coming straight at you especially when in such close proximity (requiring a faster shutter speed) with a bird cage behind you. I've captured large birds coming straight at me in close proximity at f/8 and SS 1/1600 but the background is typically sky or water, much easier to do than what you're trying to do. If you can manage more distance between you and the bird you'll be able to use a larger aperture. Your focus looks great to me, nice and sharp on the birds head and eyes. Personally I like the motion blur seen when used with lower shutter speeds on fast flying birds.

I've never tried anything similar to what your trying but if I were to do so I would practice by trying to capture the BIF from a side position, first (easier), and I would set up my background prior to trying to nail the shot so grabbing and keeping focus on the bird was easier. (no competing objects) I've no experience with flash so I don't know how that effects your choice of settings.


Anyhow I imagine what you're trying to do is extraordinarily difficult and that more space, taken from a side angle (before the head on shot but then again you've managed the focus so perhaps not) with your unobstructed background set up, while you practice might be worth a try. Or if 100% safe for your bird take him/her outside?

Hi Christina,
You kinda of go down my way of thinking, I'm sure it's lens I've now given it a good go and I'm just not happy. I suspect I'm not using its sweet spot either. I thought the same focus seemed pretty well on beak/eye but just didn't feel it was sharp. Outside I'll do harnessed which would mean loads of pp not for me, couldn't trust them free flighted. Think I'll see if I can get the 50mm looking at it from a technical point of view reckon a focus at 20ft f22 gives me 10.2ft to get the shot.

Thanks for the C&C

I concur the dof is tight but not something I think is unmanageable might need new glass though.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Stef,

It has been interesting following you developing this concept recently - thanks for continuing to post updates and new threads.

Below I shall make a series of statements and questions, as much to get you possibly thinking in alternate ways, they occurred somewhat randomly, sorry about that.


As I see it, your need for the wide DoF is due to the inability to auto-focus effectively on a rapidly moving target - you have mentioned anything from 2.7 to 10 feet at various focal lengths - and the bird ain't that big!

Do you have an assistant (to call and 'catch' the bird), or are you working alone?
I ask because the bird appears to be flying directly at the camera and I wondered whether a slight off-axis angle might be more photogenic?

As you have said; the background is a problem, could s/he be trained to fly from a much smaller (photogenically simpler) perch, something like a 6 inch length of wooden pole supported on a similar column? (rather than the cage roof)?

How are you triggering the exposure(s)? Peering through viewfinder, remotely, or perhaps by calling timed to coincide with pre-triggered self timer release? Whichever way, is one of the other ideas worth a try?

Given the limited space you seem to be working in, I was wondering whether you can pre-focus manually and rely on DoF?

That said; no wide range zoom (such as your Sigma 18-250mm) is going to be great at f/20, or at either extreme of focal length, so your aim to shoot at 50mm, rather than 18mm seems wise, I just wonder whether you have the room to get far enough away to shoot at that angle of vie without clipping wing tips, tail, etc.?

If AF, I'd try at f/16 max., perhaps f/11 - although going for the lens' sweet spot is going to be academic compared to the other challenges you face

I am guessing the flash is mounted on camera, which is giving very flat, frontal lighting - can you achieve mounting it off the lens axis at all? A bit of modelling to the subject might help, although it might throw the shadow in a more unfortunate position on the background.

You seem to expose very soon after the bird has left the cage, resulting in the bird, cage and background all receiving almost the same exposure, ideally you might try to expose a bit later in the flight, to get more physical, and hence exposure, separation. Sadly, I suspect I'm asking the impossible here due to constraints on space and also the focal length/angle of view (plus DoF) compromises necessary.

Can you shoot in a larger area?
Can you arrange a somewhat darker toned backdrop, perhaps one in front of the wall that covers the light fitting?

OK, I'm out of ideas now (you may be glad to hear)!

Good luck, Dave

[FeatherMonkey]

Hi Stef,

It has been interesting following you developing this concept recently - thanks for continuing to post updates and new threads.

Below I shall make a series of statements and questions, as much to get you possibly thinking in alternate ways, they occurred somewhat randomly, sorry about that.

Thank you Dave,
I'll go through these as asked. Have to say biggest thing at mo is stilling wings.

As I see it, your need for the wide DoF is due to the inability to auto-focus effectively on a rapidly moving target - you have mentioned anything from 2.7 to 10 feet at various focal lengths - and the bird ain't that big!

Nailed it pretty spot on, though manual could be a way. Reckon 20ft focus point would be manageable. To be fair not massive but when I looked at figures head to tail 14inches so not long to clear 2.7 ft. Not done 20 ft reckon that will be next go.

Do you have an assistant (to call and 'catch' the bird), or are you working alone?
I ask because the bird appears to be flying directly at the camera and I wondered whether a slight off-axis angle might be more photogenic?

This no problem could send them to the perch just right of camera. Landing on hand so wherever hand is. So angle is easy at mo it's stilling the wings, I really want one where the wings are fanning tight in front of them.

As you have said; the background is a problem, could s/he be trained to fly from a much smaller (photogenically simpler) perch, something like a 6 inch length of wooden pole supported on a similar column? (rather than the cage roof)?

Any where off anything cage was easy I could of used the rope but eventually may make a stand.

How are you triggering the exposure(s)? Peering through viewfinder, remotely, or perhaps by calling timed to coincide with pre-triggered self timer release? Whichever way, is one of the other ideas worth a try?

Been using multi shot been getting 2-3 shots some black. Both live view and viewfinder found viewfinder best with single point focus 12 o'clock most shots to start with some full auto.

Given the limited space you seem to be working in, I was wondering whether you can pre-focus manually and rely on DoF?

That said; no wide range zoom (such as your Sigma 18-250mm) is going to be great at f/20, or at either extreme of focal length, so your aim to shoot at 50mm, rather than 18mm seems wise, I just wonder whether you have the room to get far enough away to shoot at that angle of vie without clipping wing tips, tail, etc.?

I agree the fifty will bring other challenges reckon best light I can get is 25ft can double to 50ft but would take a proper lesson in light management plus additional lights I don't have at mo.

If AF, I'd try at f/16 max., perhaps f/11 - although going for the lens' sweet spot is going to be academic compared to the other challenges you face

That's exactly what I ended going for didn't care about noise or under exposure but wanted to still the wings. Just can't see why sometimes it does but more times it doesn't.

I am guessing the flash is mounted on camera, which is giving very flat, frontal lighting - can you achieve mounting it off the lens axis at all? A bit of modelling to the subject might help, although it might throw the shadow in a more unfortunate position on the background.

I have had it under them that's pretty cool. I am looking at investing in lighting just want to buy once so thinking another flash, 2 light stands, some kinda of modifier probably umbrellas. So eventually main aim I shouldn't have any problem.

You seem to expose very soon after the bird has left the cage, resulting in the bird, cage and background all receiving almost the same exposure, ideally you might try to expose a bit later in the flight, to get more physical, and hence exposure, separation. Sadly, I suspect I'm asking the impossible here due to constraints on space and also the focal length/angle of view (plus DoF) compromises necessary.

Can you shoot in a larger area?
Can you arrange a somewhat darker toned backdrop, perhaps one in front of the wall that covers the light fitting?

OK, I'm out of ideas now (you may be glad to hear)!

Good luck, Dave

Exposure I have to admit got a little over looked in the chase of stilling the wings. I can modify the background simple sheet and foam board. Even off the window, can get to plus 50ft but half out of or into a dark hall, light could be modified.

Once again thanks Dave, given me plenty to think about. I suspect the next few will be with the fifty. Maybe an investment in light.