Apple

[Max von MeiselMaus]

I have been trying my hand at fruit still life and learning as I go along. So far, my aim has been to make the fruit look lush and sensuous. With this one, I used a dry, grungy background to contrast and emphasise the smooth, shiny skin of the fruit. On reflection, I should have used focus stacking to keep the background in focus throughout. But we learn as we go along. Shot at f/20.

Any C&C very welcome.

[Shadowman]

Max,

Have you tried to add a few droplets of water? Looks good so far.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

No, not got to that yet. A good idea. I have heard that mixing glycerine with the water keeps it in drops and stops it evaporating in the heat of the lights. See, this is what happens when you branch out into a new area. So much to learn.

[mugge]

The apple looks great. Water and maybe some small ice cubes. Just a thought.
Cheers Ole

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Thanks, Ole. I will definitely have a go with water on something.

[DougR]

It looks lonely there (unless that is what you wanted). I would start adding other things to the scene, e.g. a bottle of wine, grapes, other fruit etc..

DougR

[Rebel]

I think you've acheived what you set out to do, that apple looks delicious!

My mouth is watering

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Thanks, Matt. The very purpose!

Doug, the intention was to make this as intense an image of a red apple as I could. I therefore deliberately excluded any other objects. Just an apple and its setting. My first attempt (some months ago. I do tend to pick things up and put them down again pretty regularly) was a more traditional still life with urn and stuff. I will undoubtedly have a reason to do something more traditional again at some point in the future. When I next come back to this. In a few months' time...

[Mike Buckley]

So far, my aim has been to make the fruit look lush and sensuous.

You certainly accomplished that.

Notice that the top of the stem coincides with the rear line of the fruit. For me, changing the perspective so the top of the stem is either clearly above or below the rear line would be an improvement.

I always try to avoid direct reflections in a scene such as this. That's because the direct reflection doesn't tell the viewer anything about the shape, color or texture; it actually hides all information about those characteristics. I realize that it's fairly easy to find professional images using direct reflections, but they tend to be used in a style that is more edgy than this. Even then, I personally don't like them for the reason I explained.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Mike, I though I had got away with that near merge. The stem peaks over the top of the edge, which was enough for me. However, if it looks like a merge, it looks like a merge and I will need to concentrate on getting more clearance.

And the reflection. Yup. It was an issue. I tried a larger softbox. Reflection. A diffuser disc. Still got a reflection. I also tried the shot with a small reflector on the dark side of the apple and got an awful reflection of that too, on the other side of the apple to the light reflection, just to make it even worse, so abandoned that.

So, how to illuminate without getting a reflection of the light source? Any ideas? I would want to retain a small specular highlight, to convey the shininess of the surface, but not such a large, white patch as I have here.

[Mike Buckley]

So, how to illuminate without getting a reflection of the light source?

There is only one way to make that happen at the time of capture without changing the appearance of the apple. (Dulling spray would probably eliminate the direct reflection but would do so only because it would change the texture and thus would probably also change the appearance of the apple's surface.) You have to ensure that the light source is outside the family of angles. Try using a large light source above and slightly behind the apple as explained on page 111 of the most recent edition of Light: Science and Magic.

As far as I'm concerned, that book is a must for anyone doing tabletop photography.

So long as the direct reflection is relatively small as in your case, you could probably solve the problem during post-processing by replacing the direct reflection with a nearby area of the apple.

I would want to retain a small specular highlight, to convey the shininess of the surface

That would be unnecessary for me. That's because the area of the apple that does not have a direct reflection already conveys very nicely the shiny surface.

[Manfred M]

While Mike is right about "the family of angles", when photographic spheres and cylinders (fruit is generally spherical), means that you effectively have a 180° reflector and the reflection cannot be avoided.

A few questions for you. What are you using as a light source? Are you diffusing the light at all? How far away from your subject did you place the light source?

I suspect softer, more diffuse and less intense light might work out better for you. That would also make the shadows less defined, so might not be what you are after.

Now for a couple of comments on the shots themselves.

Image 1 - apple - I find the positioning a bit awkward. The right side of the image is bright, but the let side is somewhat darker and the whole thing looks a touch unbalanced. I wonder if either positioning the apple further left or having a white reflector just outside of the frame on the left side of the image might not fix that.

I find that specular highlight is too bright and hence distracting.


Image 2 - Mixed fruit - I like this image a lot more, but I think you might want to cut down the intensity of the light a bit there as well. Again, the specular highlights are getting to the point of distracting the viewer. I wonder if a more diffuse light source (a scrim placed between your light source and the fruit) might not help.



Keep on experimenting. I think you have some interesting ideas here. Playing with the lights and perhaps a bit of refinement in post should add a bit more subtlety to the lighting.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Thanks for that, Mike.

My first attempt at this was with the light behind and to my left of the apple. I liked the angle the shadow cast, towards the corner of the frame. However, my attempt to fill the unlit side of the apple failed, because of the reflection of the reflector, which was right at the front of the apple. As I needed the light to fall where the lens could see it, I couldn't find a way to place the reflector that provided fill but no reflection (by definition). This is going to take some thought. I also thought about what this would look like with no specular highlight. My initial though is that it would compromise the apple's lushness. Then I did a very quick and dirty PS of it and I might be changing my mind. I will get some more apples (my daughter just ate that one, whilst looking at its photograph) and try to figure out how to light them with no highlights.



Funnily enough, I finally ordered Light Science and Magic last week. I have yet to have a look at it (too busy taking photos...) but I will scour that. I have been doing tabletop photography for a while, with toys. However, moving on to a different subject introduces a whole, new set of challenges. But this is why I am doing it, after all. No point pursuing a hobby that has no challenges.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Manfred, thanks for your input.

Light, a small softbox (30x30cm) with diffusion panel and internal baffle (so, as diffused as such things could get), about 40cm from the apple (I wanted a soft but controlled light, so small softbox close to seemed sensible).

I tried with a larger softbox (60x40cm) and I also slung a huge diffuser disc in there. The shadows were softer, but that blasted highlight was still there. I am currently stumped on that one, but will continue to think about how to shrink the highlight.

Yes, the rhs is too bright. Agree. This was obviously where the light was. I burned it down somewhat in PS, but it is still bright. It could be darkened even further. Yup.

I will give all of that some proper thought.

Thanks again for the input.

[chauncey]

No point pursuing a hobby that has no challenges

Well said my friend, aah...the last one doesn't work.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Right, another go at processing it. I reduced the size of the highlight, in order to bring it down a bit, darkened all edges and recropped to a 4x5 format, to make it more snug. It looks more processed now, with the background, but perhaps it needed something like that to make it more interesting.



Post processing. We could fiddle about with it indefinitely, couldn't we? Or perhaps it is just me.

[Mike Buckley]

I immediately sense a greater sense of intimacy and connection between the viewer and the subject in your latest version. Another way of putting it is that in the first version, I feel as if I am looking at a photo of an apple, whereas in the latest version I feel drawn to the apple so much that I want to reach out and hold it.

[DougR]

I'm probably wrong on this but, shouldn't there be something of a catchlight?

Like a portrait without catchlights would dead, lifeless?

DougR

[Mike Buckley]

I'm probably wrong on this but, shouldn't there be something of a catchlight?
Like a portrait without catchlights would dead, lifeless?

That's only a matter of taste. I see high-end food photography with no direct reflection, with some direct reflection and with lots of direct reflection. I usually prefer no direct reflection for the reason explained in my first post. However, I don't object to direct reflections in grapes so long as they aren't obtrusive and I have no idea why. The direct reflection in the latest version of the apple is far more appealing to me than in the first version, though I still would prefer no direct reflection.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Mike, I am with you on the crop. I find a 4x5 crop always more intimate and, in this case, it increases the size of the apple in its setting. Negative space. Something I struggle with endlessly. My natural inclination is to crop very tight. But that can be too literal and not help the overall composition. I am happier with the balance in this one.

Yes, highlights. I am going to try some shots where I attempt to minimise them and see how that goes. If nothing else, it will be a useful exercise that I am sure will come in handy for something.

And thank you all for your invaluable feedback. It has helped me immensely.