Need Advice for a 200 Person Group Shot

[tbird]

I'm currently formulating my plan of action for a group photo I have coming up in a couple of weeks. This is my first time with a group this size and I'd appreciate any advice you all can provide! The group will have about 150-200 people. I think that I'm going to arrange them in 4 rows of 50 or 5 rows of 40. The goal of the photo is to capture a company photo highlighting the individual employees as well as the mountains in the background. I've attached a image of the location where the photo will be held.

I'm shooting with a Canon 5D Mark iii. I want to compress the sense of depth with the mountains in the background, bringing them closer. So I'm thinking about renting a telephoto lens for the event (haven't decided which yet). Additionally, I think that lighting will be tricky in this location with the sun rising directly behind us which will catch the trees and cast a shadow on the group. So I plan to rent some lighting gear as well.

Any advice on lens and lighting, and overall shot would be most appreciated! Thanks!

* I also have a 24-70mm f/4.0L on hand that I can use.

[Polar01]

tbird welcome to CiC, if you could first go back into setting, and put your first name in as well we try to be on a first name basis here, also if you could include your general location that can help us also.
Now to your problem, it is not going to happen. Look at your setting, there is one person, now clone that person 24 times to the left, then to the right can you fit them all within the area you want. Using a telephoto lens to compress the depth will mean a lesser field of view so now you can only get maybe 20 of the fifty.
Now the line, "The goal of the photo is to capture a company photo highlighting the individual employees as well as the mountains in the background." how do you capture individual employees when there are 150-200 of them in the image. I hate to pour a bucket of water on your idea, but I truly believe that you need to really rethink this over.

Cheers: Allan

[William W]

What Allan wrote - AND -

. . . Additionally, I think that lighting will be tricky in this location with the sun rising directly behind us which will catch the trees and cast a shadow on the group. So I plan to rent some lighting gear as well.

You'll need seven truck loads of Flash Heads or a FULL Cine Outdoor Lighting Rig to balance the EV of the Fill Light with the EV of the Sunrise Sky in the Background.

You do need to re-think.

WW

[Donald]

And ..............

unless you're fully confident and experienced in using that seven truckloads of flashheads, I wouldn't even go there. A shoot like this is not the place to start learning how to master the sort of lighting set-up that will be needed.

[Stagecoach]

Hi tbird, welcome to CiC.

I'll not touch on lighting but you do ask about lens.

40 people wide will be approx 20 mtr to fill the frame across (50 wide aprox 25 mtr)

Are there any restrictions on how far you can get from the group, your camera to subject distance?

[William W]

. . . I'll not touch on lighting but you do ask about lens.

40 people wide will be approx 20 mtr to fill the frame across (50 wide aprox 25 mtr)

Are there any restrictions on how far you can get from the group, your camera to subject distance?

I think the subtext is "Don't rush out and rent a telephoto lens just yet!".

WW

[Manfred M]

Let's try to pull everything together here:

1. Positioning 200 people for the shot. There are really two fairly standard approaches in trying to heard the people. You have to do something to concentrate them into a configuration that you can more or less line them up for a shot. Remember 200 people in a shot is like herding cats and getting them into anything that even remotely resembles "order" is going to be challenging. I assume you are trying to show all of their faces.

(a) A single row of 200 people;

(b) Two rows of 100 people; 100 standing and the other 100 sitting on the ground (hopefully there's not a lot of moisture on the ground);

(c) Three rows (assuming you can get 67 chairs). 66 in the front row sitting, 67 behind them on chairs, 67 standing.

(d) Rent and set up 4 or 5 row bleachers....

OR

Get on a building roof or rent a crane with a basket and shoot them all at ground level.

Regardless; these are all going to be wide angle shots (unless you have a really long unobstructed sight line and given the topography / location shown in the location shot, I rather doubt it.


2. Back lighting - The mountains will be back lit too and need totally different exposure. So will the middle ground and of course then you have the previously mentioned issues of overpowering the sunlight back-lighting the 200 subjects. Balancing the daylight and artificial light won't be easy.

As others have said; a truck full of studio lights, radio triggers and of course the expertise to set them up and shoot with them (hint - this either means getting the lights in the shot or shooting wide angle so you are in front of them).

Regardless; setting up a shot like the one you are proposing needs a lot of equipment and a lot of expertise. Of all the highly experienced pro photographers I know, I can't think of any that might be able to pull this off.

[Black Pearl]

Most points have been covered already so I'll just add some personal experience.

I did a commercial shoot for Komatsu years and years ago. They wanted a shot of their factory workforce (probably about 200+ thinking back) standing around their latest digger/backhoe vehicle. I ended up swaying around in the breeze inside a tiny basket at the top reach of a cherry picker with a loudhailer and a Hasselblad. Even with half a dozen managers running around prodding people into place via my (slightly terrified) shouts it was a nightmare job......but the only way I managed was with the cherry picker so you might want to look into the hire of and placement of one first.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi tbird,

Firstly; a warm welcome to the CiC forums from me.

Thanks for the scene setting picture, that has been very helpful to us, you shot it at 24mm on your 5D3 and put a person in for scale, additionally the railings happen to help us mentally scale what more people might look like. We have had the same question asked with few clues and no picture.

Even more excellent advice has appeared above while I have been typing my reply, so I removed all the duplicate material.


How reliable is the weather; what's the wet weather plan?

By the law of averages, you'll have some extra tall people, some fairly short people, perhaps the odd one or two in a wheel chair also. They will need special placement, as might the directors/partners. Think about that ahead of time too.

I suggest, if you don't have a strong voice and the confidence to shout* at every one from the MD/CEO downwards yourself, you find someone that does, to help you manage people, also prepare them before hand, so they don't just amble about aimlessly chatting to their colleagues, make it clear you will need their co-operation in order to save (a lot of) time outside.

* The loud-hailer is a great idea, I've only used one when organising about 50 odd people in the car park when the fire alarm went off - that was hard enough - and I didn't need to get them in a group.


Could you do us a favour please?
Could you click Settings (right at the top),
then Edit Profile (on left)
and put your first name in the Real Name field
and where you are (roughly) in the Location field,
then click the Save Changes button below and to right,
this helps everyone give you more personal and relevant answers - thanks in advance.

All the best, Dave

[davidedric]

Hi folks,

Given that tbird is unlikely to hire and operate the truck load of lighting, are there any options using hdr, or stitching an initial shot without people into the group shot exposed for the people. I know there are limitations, but given that s/he seems to be committed?

Dave

[William W]

. . . are there any options using hdr, or stitching an initial shot without people into the group shot exposed for the people. I know there are limitations, but given that s/he seems to be committed?

I don't think HDRI or massive Post Production Cloning / Stitching are viable options.

I think the first changes which need to be made are the location (free from shadows on the Subject) and the time of day (not backlit).

A reply to the commentaries thus far would be an indication of commitment to the endeavour.

WW

[Polar01]

If I were committed to doing this (afterwards I may have to be committed),I would have to select a time of day so that the shade from the tree to the right is not there. I would be nice to use a chainsaw to get rid of those two trees in the background but that is not going to happen. I would change how the people were placed, I would go with something like back row, 50, next row forward 45, then 40, then 35, then 30 for total of 200.
Now the how do part, something to get me 3 or so feet higher (picnic table) easy part. Equipment: sturdy tripod, good ballhead with a mounting clamp that will take an L-bracket, cable or remote release, 45mm tilt-shift lens.
Physical method: with camera in vertical ordination, set camera to f/2.8, focus about 78 ft into image, this should give you a depth of field from 40ft to 14,000 ft., once focused lock it. Now you will need to take a number of vertical slices for your pan, 3 to 5 should work start at top then shift to middle then to bottom, shift back to top, rotate camera to next position and repeat until you have the number of slices that you need.
Post Production: open all images in ACR (that is what I use), select one image to work on, once that is done, select all this will apply the changes that you do to your selected image to be applied to all the images as you work through your workflow. Once done select the images from the first slice and take them into photomerge, then save the resulting image as a Tiff (will explain later), do this for all the slices. Once that is done take all the slices and run them through photomerge save as tiff. Now open that combined image in ACR it will open as it is a tiff and rework the image if need be, then save as a psd file. Now finish off the image, because the image is larger than need you should be able to crop to the best size so show the people.
Note I have done a similar shot, 9 rows of 3 shots each from a total of 27 images, this was done of Devil's Tower in WY.

Cheers: Allan

[William W]

. . . I have done a similar shot, 9 rows of 3 shots each from a total of 27 images, this was done of Devil's Tower in WY.

Allan,

How many people were in that Group Portrait?

WW

[Polar01]

William stated by the OP that there would be about 150-200 people, 50p+45p+40p+35p+30p=200p (p=people). I thought using a tilt-shift may require 3 to 5 vertical slices of 3 shots each could be more. This requires a lot of planning not just picking up the camera and pushing a button.

Cheers: Allan

[Stagecoach]

I think the subtext is "Don't rush out and rent a telephoto lens just yet!".

WW

That was what I was thinking Bill,

Based on the OPs post "highlighting the individual employees as well as the mountains in the background."" along with consideration of the width of the suggested number of people in a row.

As an idea I did a quick approximation of a 20 wide row.



There is the possible option of considering the shot in portrait mode based on the importance of including the mountains.

[Manfred M]

That was what I was thinking Bill,

Based on the OPs post "highlighting the individual employees as well as the mountains in the background."" along with consideration of the width of the suggested number of people in a row.

As an idea I did a quick approximation of a 20 wide row.


There is the possible option of considering the shot in portrait mode based on the importance of including the mountains.

20 wide x 10 deep = 200. Tough one to pose with that many rows.

[Stagecoach]

20 wide x 10 deep = 200. Tough one to pose with that many rows.

Manfred, 20 wide is not a suggestion, just shown on the example to easily compare, 100, 50, 40 etc, with respect to the mountains.

[William W]

William stated by the OP that there would be about 150-200 people, 50p+45p+40p+35p+30p=200p (p=people). I thought using a tilt-shift may require 3 to 5 vertical slices of 3 shots each could be more. This requires a lot of planning not just picking up the camera and pushing a button.

Cheers: Allan

Allan,

I understand that the OP stated there would be about 200 people.

If the OP chooses to merge many images - then I wasn't commenting on or debating the number slices which might be required.

I agree that this requires a lot of planning.

*

What I was doing was seeking the answer to a simple question:

You wrote that you had made "a similar shot" -

I am asking how many people were in that "similar shot" that you made of Devil's Tower NJ?

WW

[Manfred M]

Allan,

I understand that the OP stated there would be about 200 people.

If the OP chooses to merge many images - then I wasn't commenting on or debating the number slices which might be required.

I agree that this requires a lot of planning.

One example that I am aware of was shot by a member who has not been around for well over a year. Almost 100 people shot as a pano in an interior setting.






The link to the thread is: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes. What and how Lex did the shot is quite an interesting read.

[William W]

^ Thanks Manfred.

That thread has a lot of valuable information in it especially the annotations of what Lex learned from the experience and what he would do next time. Also I note he mentioned that the Pano was not his Plan A. Being inside meant he could easier/better control the Lighting Scenario.

I remember Lex, he was really keen on the Roller Derby Sport and he made some fantastic images.

WW