First B&W

[Sam W]

Hi all, I'm looking for C&C on my first attempt at B&W photography. The color photo was taken at sunset with the sun on the opposite side of the mill. I used LR to post process to B&W adjusting the various color components to achieve my desired contrast and tonal effects. No vignetting was added as I thought the natural shadows were adequate for that effect. Photo was taking at F18, 1/60, ISO 125 (would have used ISO 100 if I had realized it). I've own a DSLR for about a month now, so I consider myself fairly new to photography. Thanks in advance!

[Mike Buckley]

This is very nice, especially for a first attempt.

You might be aware that there are two fundamental approaches to B&W photography -- employing the full tonal range from deep blacks to bright whites that also displays considerable mid-tone contrast or doing pretty much the opposite. Your very nice rendition is the latter approach. If that's by design, that's fine. If not, adjust your levels and curve to render the image in a style that is closer to the former approach and determine which style you like best with this particular image. However, keep in mind that you might prefer some images created using one style and that you might prefer other images using the other style.

Most important, hopefully you're aware that making monochrome images can very easily become addictive.

[Dave Humphries]

I think that's a good conversion (and slight crop) Sam, well done.

My suggestion would be to apply some, or slightly more, final sharpening (after the downsize to 900px height).

[deetheturk]

Lovely image Sam, great first attempt, looking forward to more of the same!

[Shadowman]

Nicely done however the crop has left only dark tones at the bottom, your edit has eliminated some of the distribution along the edge of the wheel and above.

[Geoff F]

For me, Sam, the original colour version has very subtle tints which look excellent in colour but tend to convert to similar shades of grey so I wonder about adding some extra contrast; or exaggerating the colours before conversion?

[IzzieK]

+1 to Geoff's suggestion...

[bnnrcn]

Very nice conversion as a first attempt Sam Your subject is so good with shadows and textures that if I were you I would try different conversions to see how they work.This would be a good practice for you.

[Manfred M]

Sam - something that was drilled into my head many years ago when I started off in the "wet" B&W darkroom is that every B&W image must have a black point (value of 0) and a white point (value of 255). Back in those days, publishers would not accept images unless they had this technical aspect correct.

Adding a vignette often helped too and it was a matter of course for a lot of photographers to do that while they were exposing their shot on the enlarger.

I've done those things on your image to see if you notice the subtle difference those two things make to the shot.

[Sam W]

This is very nice, especially for a first attempt.

You might be aware that there are two fundamental approaches to B&W photography -- employing the full tonal range from deep blacks to bright whites that also displays considerable mid-tone contrast or doing pretty much the opposite. Your very nice rendition is the latter approach. If that's by design, that's fine. If not, adjust your levels and curve to render the image in a style that is closer to the former approach and determine which style you like best with this particular image. However, keep in mind that you might prefer some images created using one style and that you might prefer other images using the other style.

Most important, hopefully you're aware that making monochrome images can very easily become addictive.

Mike - thanks for making it clear on the fundamental approaches. You are correct on the approach I used (starting from considerable mid-tone contrast then trying to stretch it out to deep blacks and bright whites). I am impressed you could figure that out. The problem I encountered was getting to the bright whites without introducing too much contrast and/or loosing the mid-tone contrast. Perhaps the pre-processed image did not have what it takes to do it and I was attempting to put lipstick on a pig. I'm also just learning what makes a good B&W image and what does not, the latter being easier for me to demonstrate.

Anyway you are correct about the addictive nature of monochrome images. I like the challenge.

[Sam W]

I think that's a good conversion (and slight crop) Sam, well done.

My suggestion would be to apply some, or slightly more, final sharpening (after the downsize to 900px height).

Dave - thanks for the sage advise. Actually, I tried the standard sharpening, low and high native to LR. I chose the low because the softer image appealed to me then...perhaps a week moment. Normally I like them sharper too...I glad to get your perspective.

[Mike Buckley]

As you consider this venture into monochrome, there are also two fundamental approaches about the process you use to achieve the desired appearance. One method is to first post-process the color version to display the characteristics that you believe will be the easiest and best for converting to monochrome. The other method is to convert to monochrome as your very first step and then make changes to the tonal values in the scene. Either method will work fine; simply pick the method that seems to be the best fit with how you think.

(starting from considerable mid-tone contrast then trying to stretch it out to deep blacks and bright whites)

That actually depends on what you consider to be your starting point. I would not characterize your color image as having considerable mid-tone contrast. Just the opposite, it has less than the normal contrast to my way of thinking.

[Sam W]

Lovely image Sam, great first attempt, looking forward to more of the same!

Thanks Kemer, hopefully they will get better :-)

[Sam W]

Nicely done however the crop has left only dark tones at the bottom, your edit has eliminated some of the distribution along the edge of the wheel and above.

Thanks John - nice observation...I agree.

[Sam W]

Thanks Geoff. Based on your suggestion I tried to exaggerate the colors before conversion but I did not have any luck when using Lightroom alone. I think I could do that with another application. I agree that a bit more contrast would make the image more appealing.

[Sam W]

+1 to Geoff's suggestion...

Thanks IzzieK!

[Sam W]

Very nice conversion as a first attempt Sam Your subject is so good with shadows and textures that if I were you I would try different conversions to see how they work.This would be a good practice for you.

Thanks Binnur - I'll keep practicing!

[Sam W]

Sam - something that was drilled into my head many years ago when I started off in the "wet" B&W darkroom is that every B&W image must have a black point (value of 0) and a white point (value of 255). Back in those days, publishers would not accept images unless they had this technical aspect correct.

Adding a vignette often helped too and it was a matter of course for a lot of photographers to do that while they were exposing their shot on the enlarger.

I've done those things on your image to see if you notice the subtle difference those two things make to the shot.


[url=https://flic.kr/p/Ah5ceH[/url]

Manfried - the changes you made significantly improved the overall image. I was somewhat aware of the need to have a both a black and white points (0 - 255) or at least a full range of contrast. I was using the visual clipping indicator in LR in an attempt to achieve this. Getting the black point was easy (seen near the wheel axle). However, as you probably noticed, getting to the white point was difficult for me without creating a heavy contrast and loosing to much of the mid-tones. I'm assuming that you able to establish a white point on the inner rim of the wheel to solve this problem. I do also notice the slight vignette that you added. Thanks for the help and your time!

[Manfred M]

Sam - it's a touch trickier to do in Lightroom than in Photoshop, but in the Develop Module in the basic panel move the "Black" slider to the left until you just see the blacks starting to clip (holding down the <Alt> key while you are moving the slider helps you see when this occurs). Do the same thing with the "White" slider, except go to the right and stop just as the highlights start to clip.

The second thing to look at is the "HSL / Color / B&W" panel. For B&W work, click on B&W and then play with the sliders to tweak the colours in the image. Not all the sliders will impact the image while others will have a dramatic effect (moving the "Blue" slider to the left will darken water and the sky, for instance. You may drive some of the image into clipping, but going back and playing with the Black, White, Highlights and Shadows will bring that back.

If you don't like the effect, double clicking on the little pointer will reset any changes you have made and you can start over. Lightroom edits are parametric and are non-destructive (a nice way of saying you can undo the edits or change you mind any time).

[Mike Buckley]

Sam,

To follow up on your discussion with Manfred and the use of Lightroom: You'll achieve the most control if you use the Tone Curve panel and select the Linear mode within that panel. Then drag the various parts of the curve to suit your needs, placing whatever anchors are required in the curve to construct the curve that again meets your needs. Doing so affects the tone curve of the entire image.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to use the same method of manipulation when adjusting the tone curve of a selected area of the scene. To make that happen, you have to use an Adjustment Brush and the tone curve graph is not available when using the brush. You can make the same adjustments as you would make using a tone curve graphical interface instead using a combination of sliders available when using the brush. The difference is that those sliders provide indirect rather than direct control of the curve. I really do hope that someday Adobe decides to make it possible to adjust the tone curve graphical interface selectively rather than only globally.