Too Late for Fall Colors?

[DanK]

Hi Dave - At the moment I'm using LR. I applied a little vibrancy and clarity to the update in the reply to Izzie. I appreciate your comments as always. Best regards - Sam

The first is a really nice vista.

Re Dave's comment: the underlying math and effects are not identical, but the effects of a clarity increase in Lightroom and a local contrast enhancement in photoshop (or anything else that allows you to use unsharp mask sharpening) are quite similar.

I think the image might do well with a bit of additional contrast, which you could apply with the curves tool. However, there is a complication if you use only Lightroom, and images like this are one place it can be noticeable. That is, when you increase contrast in LR, or with the normal blend mode in photoshop, you are also increasing saturation. In photoshop, you can avoid this in a couple of different ways, the simplest of which is to use a luminosity blend mode for the curves adjustment. Lightroom doesn't allow you this, so if increasing contrast makes the image oversaturated, you have to compensate by reducing saturation or vibrance.

I'll use your image to illustrate this. In both of the edits below, I added a local contrast adjustment and vibrance, similar to what you did. I then added contrast with a curves tool. I wasn't trying to get the contrast right, just to add enough that the effect I am referring to would start to show up. The first image applies the curve with a normal blend, which is effectively what you would be doing in LR. The second uses a luminosity blend mode. In this case, the effects aren't large, but they are visible. (For example, look at the grass in the foreground.) I have had some other fall landscapes where the effects have been larger.

In your case, since you are using only LR, I would start by playing with the curves tool to see what amount of additional contrast looks best, and then back off vibrance or saturation a little bit if and only if it seems like the contrast adjustment oversaturated the image.

[Mike Buckley]

when you increase contrast in LR, or with the normal blend mode in photoshop, you are also increasing saturation. In photoshop, you can avoid this in a couple of different ways, the simplest of which is to use a luminosity blend mode for the curves adjustment. Lightroom doesn't allow you this, so if increasing contrast makes the image oversaturated, you have to compensate by reducing saturation or vibrance.

That is such helpful information! I rarely use Lightroom or Photoshop and when I do use them it is never to make that kind of adjustment. So, I tried it for myself using my normal software and Lightroom. In my normal software, the saturation doesn't change whether I'm using a luminance or a normal mode. Yet in Lightroom, the saturation increased exactly as you explained would happen. It's easy to correct it by reducing the saturation afaterward as you mentioned, but it is something very important to watch for.

[bnnrcn]

Very nice set Sam

[Sam W]

What version of Lightroom are you using? (I'm asking relative to Dave's suggestion about the Dehaze tool.)

Version 6 ... I have not seen a Dehaze tool in LR, but I am a fairly new user of it and finding out more all the time.

[Mike Buckley]

Your version has a Dehaze tool that can be applied globally (to the entire image) but it can't be applied selectively (to part of the image). In Lightroom CC, the comparable tool is the bottom slider in the Effects panel so it might be there in Version 6 as well.

[Sam W]

The first is a really nice vista.

Re Dave's comment: the underlying math and effects are not identical, but the effects of a clarity increase in Lightroom and a local contrast enhancement in photoshop (or anything else that allows you to use unsharp mask sharpening) are quite similar.

I think the image might do well with a bit of additional contrast, which you could apply with the curves tool. However, there is a complication if you use only Lightroom, and images like this are one place it can be noticeable. That is, when you increase contrast in LR, or with the normal blend mode in photoshop, you are also increasing saturation. In photoshop, you can avoid this in a couple of different ways, the simplest of which is to use a luminosity blend mode for the curves adjustment. Lightroom doesn't allow you this, so if increasing contrast makes the image oversaturated, you have to compensate by reducing saturation or vibrance.

I'll use your image to illustrate this. In both of the edits below, I added a local contrast adjustment and vibrance, similar to what you did. I then added contrast with a curves tool. I wasn't trying to get the contrast right, just to add enough that the effect I am referring to would start to show up. The first image applies the curve with a normal blend, which is effectively what you would be doing in LR. The second uses a luminosity blend mode. In this case, the effects aren't large, but they are visible. (For example, look at the grass in the foreground.) I have had some other fall landscapes where the effects have been larger.

In your case, since you are using only LR, I would start by playing with the curves tool to see what amount of additional contrast looks best, and then back off vibrance or saturation a little bit if and only if it seems like the contrast adjustment oversaturated the image.

Thanks Dan - Great info to know and I will be using that knowledge going forward. I was reluctant to post the image and now with your comments and others I am glad I did. I am only using Lightroom for PP (hint to Santa). I did not mention it above but in my normal workflow I adjust individual colors HSL in LR and touch the vibrancy last. I very seldom touch the global saturation or contrast. Maybe thats the problem

I like how you demonstrated your points in your two edits. At the risk of starting a great debate, the colors & contrast, while eye catching are too saturated to look in the realm of realism for me. But that is just me. This does not mean that your are edits are not beautiful, just my preference is to not lean too heavy on the saturation. Even in my second edit I was pushing it toward my personal limit on saturation while my first post, boring as it was, is closest to how the trees actually looked as I recall them. Now it could be my monitor is out of whack as my calibration tool (i1Display 2 by Xrite) is not compatible with Windows 10...and the nice folks at Xrite, last I looked, are not maintaining that model any longer. I wonder if they think I'll buy one of their newer units?

Thanks very much for your comments and time. Best regards - Sam

[Sam W]

Very nice set Sam

Thanks Binnur!

[DanK]

Thanks Dan - Great info to know and I will be using that knowledge going forward. I was reluctant to post the image and now with your comments and others I am glad I did. I am only using Lightroom for PP (hint to Santa). I did not mention it above but in my normal workflow I adjust individual colors HSL in LR and touch the vibrancy last. I very seldom touch the global saturation or contrast. Maybe thats the problem

I like how you demonstrated your points in your two edits. At the risk of starting a great debate, the colors & contrast, while eye catching are too saturated to look be in the realm of realism for me. But that is just me. This does not mean that your are edits are not beautiful, just my preference is to not lean too heavy on the saturation. Even in my second edit I was pushing it toward my personal limit on saturation while my first post, boring as it was, is closest to how the trees actually looked as I recall them. Now it could be my monitor is out of whack as my calibration tool (i1Display 2 by Xrite) is not compatible with Windows 10...and the nice folks at Xrite, last I looked, are not maintaining that model any longer. I wonder if they think I'll buy one of their newer units?

Thanks very much for your comments and time. Best regards - Sam

Hi Sam,

I share your dislike of highly saturated images. I would consider at least one of the two images I posted as oversaturated. That was actually part of the reason for my post. For years, I was accidentally oversaturating images because I didn't realize that adding contrast was adding saturation. I often now add contrast only with luminosity.

Because I too dislike a lot of saturation, I almost never increase saturation. When I touch the saturation slider--which is rarely--it is more often than not to decrease saturation. However, I do add a modest amount of vibrance to a lot of images because the Adobe Standard profile seems a little flat to me in terms of colors.

Re contrast: that's where I differ. I end up adjusting tonality in the great majority of my images, but the nature of that adjustment depends on the image. I usually do increase contrast somewhat.

Dan

[IzzieK]

Hi Gordon - ...It would pretty wild to wake up one day and see Kangaroos outside. I'd like to see that. ....

Don't you wish that, Buddy! You will regret it...