Snow Mountain Peaks - SOOC or Processed from Raw

[Brownbear]

There is snow on our local mountains alas none in the city but wonderful to see on the mountains!

I would like to check out how my post processing skills are coming along, and would be appreciative of some feedback, and to know which is preferred the original jpeg or the image I processed from raw. This particular viewpoint is a little awkward but I have some other snowy peaks that I intend to work on (and will share later) but before I do so I thought it might be good for me to receive some input.

It's interesting that the sooc jpeg is quite high key (a type of image I'm fond of), yet I processed the raw file differently to bring out the details and raise the black point. When I looked at the jpeg after processing the raw image it came to my mind that perhaps I'm adding more contrast because I think it's what correct, and that I prefer the jpeg and/or an in between version. ie; perhaps I've pushed the post processing too, far?


f/8 SS 1/80 ISO 100 focal length 300 mm

1. SOOC Jpeg - sharpened for downsizing (.3 radius at 100)



2. Processed from raw = sharpened for downsizing (.3 radius at 100)



Aside... I've been playing with the various WB functions on my camera and for that reason shooting raw and jpeg. For this particular scene taken ~ 1/2 hour before sunset I set the WB off of the white snow for a true white balance. I'm curious as to whether there is any reason/advantage to set one's WB this way, assuming the image is to be processed from raw?

Thank you.

[Shadowman]

Hi Christina,

I think once you perfect your workflow, it won't matter which format you save under as it looks like you are capturing the scene exposed to the right; so unless you really plan to use the image SOOC you'll still need to follow some type of workflow get the final image you are ultimately happy with. One question, when you captured this image did you save as RAW/jpeg fine? Also, if you prefer the highkey look of the jpeg why are you or who are you editing the RAW image for? Of the two images, I prefer the RAW edit as the transformation separates the snow caps from the bland sky and helps give definition to the composition.

[pnodrog]

I am curious as to why you would want a true white balance when working with what was possibly a lovely soft golden light. Good to have the skills to get a true white balance but it may not produce the best aesthetic result.

Certainly the contrast achieved from the RAW file is superior to that of the jpeg image.

I assume we will see the photographs taken from the top peak shortly......

[Wavelength]

Magnificent!!! i think you may trim the bottom part and make it more panoramic

[Manfred M]

Christina - the first question I will ask when looking at any image, and that is to ask if it contains a range of shades that go from black (some of the areas where the trees are casting shadows or areas in crevices in the rocks) and are there white areas (as white as fresh snow?).

If the answer is yes (and I believe it is that the case in this image) and you check your histogram on the SOOC and it has a compressed tonal range, I would suggest that the camera got it wrong. If you set your black point and white point appropriately, without changing the mid-point, I suspect that the two images would look.

Once you have set the black point and white point correctly, play around with the mid-point to get the look that you want.

I would also argue that this is NOT a high key image. There are too many dark areas in the image.

[Mike Buckley]

which is preferred the original jpeg or the image I processed from raw. This particular viewpoint is a little awkward

Your post-processing skills are advanced to the point that I believe you need to decide how you want your images to appear, not how others want them to appear. It's in that context that your viewpoint is awkward for me as well mostly because I can't relate to it for someone who has your advanced skills.

I selectively applied Lightroom CC's Dehaze tool to the SOOC JPEG. It was difficult for me to do because I'm clueless when it comes to using the Adjustment Brush, so I didn't come close to doing a really nuanced job of it. Even so, it might be helpful to know that I only used the Dehaze tool except where some shades became too blue in the process. I then warmed them up a bit, and that's where I had difficulty controlling the Adjustment Brush because it is the first time I have ever used it. The point is that my sole editing processes were to minimize or eliminate the haze.

[NorthernFocus]

Christina, IMO the only thing that is relevant is which version looks like what you remember and/or what you want to present to viewers? Your PP skills are fine. Now your artistic eye and/or style is what needs honing.

You and I have much in common. You seem to be comfortable with your wildlife shots now and are trying to "find yourself" with landscapes. I'm in the same boat

[Stagecoach]

Hi Christina,

Plenty has been said about the PP work so I will not repeat it.

What I will raise is a question, and that is;

Is it possible to produce an appealing image from this scene and that framing?

I don't know the answer but I'm suspecting it's no, unless there is a third element within it, such as something in the foreground or interesting lighting.

Somehow I have that feeling that however you adjust black, mid and white points and undertake slight tweaks to WB you may not be happy with it.

But I would love some of that snow, 35 deg C here today and so humid

Grahame

[JBW]

Definitely number two for the Sleeping Princess (okay from this angle they are the Lions but coming in by boat the perspective changes. I simply lioke the stronger contrast.

[IzzieK]

There are already a lot of good advice here so far so I will not say any more so you do not get too confused. Anyway, I like that you put both images one after the other for comparison. And I also like to tell you that my preference is the first one...it has more appeal to the eyes from here...

[John 2]

Christina, IMO the only thing that is relevant is which version looks like what you remember and/or what you want to present to viewers? Your PP skills are fine. Now your artistic eye and/or style is what needs honing.

You and I have much in common. You seem to be comfortable with your wildlife shots now and are trying to "find yourself" with landscapes. I'm in the same boat

My view also Christina and within reason, I don't think it matters whether you achieve that as an end result in camera or during PP except that visualising what you are aiming for at the time you take the shot may well inform how you record it. It's the final image that matters unless your objective is pure record.

[Brownbear]

Thank you to all. I will reply in depth this afternoon after work.

The primary reason for this post is because I have some other scenes that work better, for which I intend to incorporate the feedback received for post processing, hopefully with the true light/colours... (0-30 minutes before sunset) And I wanted to know if I've started to push my post processing too, much. The jpeg is a little washed out but has that dreamy look i like, so I think my vision is somewhere in between the two.

These peaks are beautiful when covered in snow but awkward to frame (close up (I already have the entire scene) because of the lack of foreground.

Yes, a continuing quest to improve my landscape scenes.

[rpcrowe]

What about trying RAW in auto color mode, using a white balance target such as the WHIBAL Card.

When using RAW, your color balance selection doesn't really matter, except for the JPEG appearing on your LCD,

[John 2]

Thank you to all. I will reply in depth this afternoon after work.

The primary reason for this post is because I have some other scenes that work better, for which I intend to incorporate the feedback received for post processing, hopefully with the true light/colours... (0-30 minutes before sunset) And I wanted to know if I've started to push my post processing too, much. The jpeg is a little washed out but has that dreamy look i like, so I think my vision is somewhere in between the two.

These peaks are beautiful when covered in snow but awkward to frame (close up (I already have the entire scene) because of the lack of foreground.

Yes, a continuing quest to improve my landscape scenes.

Christina, IMHO it's not the framing per se that is most important. As with all composition, one of the principal objectives is to prevent the viewers eye wandering out of the frame. One way is to have a discernible focal point with for preference (but not always) something to take your eye there e.g. lead lines. I prefer the second version because it makes better use of contrast (John's point) and because there is just a hint of warmth beginning to develop on the peaks from the sun. You could develop this more in PP to provide a focal point, add a bit of colour to the sky and a mild vignette. Something like the version below. This is just my vision of the scene. Yours may well be different and so I offer it only as an example.

[bnnrcn]

Hi Christina Your first image looks as if there is a blizzard at the shooting time and your second image (raw and edited)looks like a scene shot in a clear weather when it isn't snowing. So, both images have different moods. After seeing John2's edit, IMO adding warmth to both versions may give better results . If you ask my preference, I would prefer the more contrasty image as it is more to my taste.

[Brownbear]

One question, when you captured this image did you save as RAW/jpeg fine? Also, if you prefer the highkey look of the jpeg why are you or who are you editing the RAW image for?

I saved the raw file as jpeg standard at a high quality.
I'm editing the raw file for me with the goal of finding a style for landscapes that is also appealing to the general populace. Even though I like low contrast images I've come to realize that they do need some contrast so I'm trying to find a middle ground, and/or simply a style that I adore

I am curious as to why you would want a true white balance when working with what was possibly a lovely soft golden light. Good to have the skills to get a true white balance but it may not produce the best aesthetic result.
I assume we will see the photographs taken from the top peak shortly......

I'm experimenting with setting my WB in camera as a learning exercise (hence the jpeg but backed up by a raw file). Originally I hoped to be able to play with the WB settings to recreate the colours I see at the time (that resulted in some very blue/green photos, the warm tones worked out okay) And here I simply wanted to learn how to set the WB manually to see what the colours looked like but backed up by a raw file.

A different peak because I can't get any closer and don't have a long enough lens to zoom in closer on the twin peaks.

Magnificent!!! i think you may trim the bottom part and make it more panoramic

Thank you. I will try a panoramic crop later on my own time and/or perhaps I have to take a series of shots to make a panorama of these peaks. Good idea.

Christina - the first question I will ask when looking at any image, and that is to ask if it contains a range of shades that go from black (some of the areas where the trees are casting shadows or areas in crevices in the rocks) and are there white areas (as white as fresh snow?).

If the answer is yes (and I believe it is that the case in this image) and you check your histogram on the SOOC and it has a compressed tonal range, I would suggest that the camera got it wrong. If you set your black point and white point appropriately, without changing the mid-point, I suspect that the two images would look.

Once you have set the black point and white point correctly, play around with the mid-point to get the look that you want.

I would also argue that this is NOT a high key image. There are too many dark areas in the image.

Great advise. Thank you. High-keyish In my new post to follow I've tried your suggestion.

Your post-processing skills are advanced to the point that I believe you need to decide how you want your images to appear, not how others want them to appear. It's in that context that your viewpoint is awkward for me as well mostly because I can't relate to it for someone who has your advanced skills.

I selectively applied Lightroom CC's Dehaze tool to the SOOC JPEG. It was difficult for me to do because I'm clueless when it comes to using the Adjustment Brush, so I didn't come close to doing a really nuanced job of it. Even so, it might be helpful to know that I only used the Dehaze tool except where some shades became too blue in the process. I then warmed them up a bit, and that's where I had difficulty controlling the Adjustment Brush because it is the first time I have ever used it. The point is that my sole editing processes were to minimize or eliminate the haze.

Mike... I'm working on improving my landscapes and in the case of these snowy mountain scenes while I think they are very pretty, these two peaks always give me a headache and the feedback I receive helps clear my head. Haze! It was freezing cold (numb finger and a frozen face) so there should be no haze but I see that found some. I still have to learn how to use the dehaze tool. The few times I've tried it I didn't like the results. That said I like you edit.

Now your artistic eye and/or style is what needs honing.
You and I have much in common. You seem to be comfortable with your wildlife shots now and are trying to "find yourself" with landscapes. I'm in the same boat

You understand!

Hi Christina,

What I will raise is a question, and that is;

Is it possible to produce an appealing image from this scene and that framing?

I don't know the answer but I'm suspecting it's no, unless there is a third element within it, such as something in the foreground or interesting lighting.

Somehow I have that feeling that however you adjust black, mid and white points and undertake slight tweaks to WB you may not be happy with it.

But I would love some of that snow, 35 deg C here today and so humid

Grahame

The image is a great example of a beautiful scene that is challenging to frame. Agreed... But this is likely my best of the twin peaks alone. I might just add a deer in the snow to the image. The light was nice (auto wb used) but it's never spectacularly vibrant. I miss tropical bugs and birds.

Definitely number two for the Sleeping Princess (okay from this angle they are the Lions but coming in by boat the perspective changes. I simply like the stronger contrast.

Thanks for sharing. Was there a time when one was allowed to paddle a boat on these waters?

And I also like to tell you that my preference is the first one...it has more appeal to the eyes from here...

My husband prefers the 1st one, too. Says it looks like there is more snow in it. Thank you for sharing.

What about trying RAW in auto color mode, using a white balance target such as the WHIBAL Card.

When using RAW, your color balance selection doesn't really matter, except for the JPEG appearing on your LCD,

Thank you, Richard. I usually do use auto wb for raw but I here I was trying to learn something new by setting the wb off of the snow. I've used a card while photographing flowers.

Thank you, to all, as always very helpful and truly appreciated. I'm just going to leave the original image(s) posted as is. And will try another edit/shot of the same scene from yesterday and repost when I can view it with fresh eyes. Moving on to different peaks!

[Brownbear]

Christina, IMHO it's not the framing per se that is most important. As with all composition, one of the principal objectives is to prevent the viewers eye wandering out of the frame. One way is to have a discernible focal point with for preference (but not always) something to take your eye there e.g. lead lines. I prefer the second version because it makes better use of contrast (John's point) and because there is just a hint of warmth beginning to develop on the peaks from the sun. You could develop this more in PP to provide a focal point, add a bit of colour to the sky and a mild vignette. Something like the version below. This is just my vision of the scene. Yours may well be different and so I offer it only as an example.

Hi John,

Thank you for advising on holding the eye as a way to strengthen the composition. Very helpful for me to hear. I can see and I also like how you brought out the light on the peaks, combined with the wee crop. I will give it a try but later.

Thank you kindly.

[Brownbear]

Hi Christina Your first image looks as if there is a blizzard at the shooting time and your second image (raw and edited)looks like a scene shot in a clear weather when it isn't snowing. So, both images have different moods. After seeing John2's edit, IMO adding warmth to both versions may give better results . If you ask my preference, I would prefer the more contrasty image as it is more to my taste.

Hi Binnur,

No blizzard but it sure felt like one. It's a windy spot and super chilly. Thank you for sharing your preference. My final edit will be somewhere in between the two taking into account all the tips shared. As always appreciated.

[Shadowman]

I saved the raw file as jpeg standard at a high quality.
I'm editing the raw file for me with the goal of finding a style for landscapes that is also appealing to the general populace. Even though I like low contrast images I've come to realize that they do need some contrast so I'm trying to find a middle ground, and/or simply a style that I adore

I suppose it's possible to nurture two different styles within the same genre (landscapes), you can definitely do so by just shooting at different times of the day.

[Mike Buckley]

Is it possible to produce an appealing image from this scene and that framing?

You've already made two appealing images. They aren't ever going to be on a cover of a photo magazine but they're definitely appealing.

It's possible that a truly spectacular photo of this scene needs a quality of light that might require you visiting 100 times to find. It's also possible that such light has never accompanied this scene. Sometimes it's important to recognize the limitations of the practicalities and to find a different scene that is more often lit by truly stunning light.