B & W Filters - Question

[Sam W]

I'm a beginner in monochrome/B & W photography. I thought it might be fun to experiment with let's say a red filter to enhance contrast. However, I wonder if equally good contrast enhancements can be achieved during post-processing and I would thereby be just wasting money?

[William W]

1. What camera(s) are you using?

2. What Digital Post Production Programme(s) are you using?

3. If you're shooting negative film, what scanner(s) are you using?

WW

[Manfred M]

Sam - unless you are shooting B&W film, you will definitely be wasting money.

[William W]

^ agree. But I'd still appreciate his answers because -

If he's using a Digital Camera, some have "Contrast Filters" inbuilt: very useful for experimenting and learning.

Depending on the Post Production Program he's using there might be the facility to 'put in' a "B&W Contrast Filter" to the COLOUR SCENE - again: very useful for experimenting and learning.

Both are better learning tools than "equally good contrast enhancements . . . achieved during post-processing (using contrast and levels sliders, etc)

Happy Christmas,

WW

[bnnrcn]

Hi Sam If you are into BnW photography I would suggest you should get Silver Efex Pro2 which is a very well known and capable software for BnW conversions. All those filters are already available in the software and you can apply them easily. So, if I were you I would rather buy a good software rather than buy some filters

You can download the trial version of SEP2 here https://www.google.com/intl/en/nikcollection/

[Sam W]

1. What camera(s) are you using?

2. What Digital Post Production Programme(s) are you using?

3. If you're shooting negative film, what scanner(s) are you using?

WW

Thanks William:
(1) N-D750
(2) LR (I am aware of the B&W presets)
(3) N/A

Thanks
Sam

[DanK]

Thanks William:
(1) N-D750
(2) LR (I am aware of the B&W presets)
(3) N/A

Thanks
Sam

Then in my opinion, there is no reason to buy filters at all. You can accomplish the same things in postprocessing, with much more flexibility.

LR has very powerful B&W conversion capabilities. I never use the presets at all. You can darken or lighten colors selectively using the sliders or targeted adjustment tool in the HSL/Color/B&W box in the develop panel.

I agree with Binnur that SilverEfex is a very powerful and useful tool, but my recommendation is that you learn your way around B&W conversion in Lightroom first. You can install SilverEfex as a LR plugin to do additional edits when the LR edits are not all you want to do.

[Manfred M]

Sam - just to add to what Dan has written and my previous comment.

Your camera is a colour camera. Throwing a red filter in front of the lens is going to give you a red-toned image. If you are shooting with AWB on the camera's processor is going to fight that and I have no idea what the image will end up looking like.

If you shoot B&W jpegs, then the red filter should give you more or less the same impact as when shooting B&W film. As Dan has suggested, you can get the same effect as adding a filter over the lens by using LR functionality (i.e. the eight individual sliders under the Color / HSL / B&W functionality (using B&W, of course) in the Development Module). That saves you the expense of buying a physical filter.

Now if you already own a B&W filter or can borrow one for your lens, go ahead and experiment, as the price would be right.

[William W]

I agree with all above. Lightroom is very powerful and comprehensive.

No need to buy B&W Contrast Filters, but if you can get one cheap or as a giveaway then that could be fun. But if you throw a filter in front of the camera (ref Manfred’s comments regarding the AWB), I think setting the CT Manually would be a good idea.

I had a quick squiz at your User Manual – pls. see pp.165~169 inclusive. As I understand the User Manual, if you set the JPEG to capture Monochrome and employ the camera’s inbuilt “Contrast Filters” you will see directly a facsimile of using a Contrast Filter on B&W Film. I assume you can set the JPEG to capture Monochrome and ALSO capture a raw (NEF) file, using the NEF file if you want to use it later for conversion and fine tuning.

I don’t think many people actually use those “filters” on their cameras and many people don’t capture JPEG anyway. I use Canon DSLRs and I always capture JPEG + (raw). Here is guide I made using the “Contrast Filters” on a Canon DSLR (and the Toning Filters also):



*



WW
All Images © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2015, WMW 1965~1996

[Sam W]

Thanks everyone for the detailed information. I definitely learned something from each person who replied. Thanks William for the N-manual reference. I will program something into one of my camera's users modes to experiment. Also, very cool guide you made. I'm not sure I have an eye for B&W as the green apple looks almost the same using the yellow, orange, red and green filters. Is there a reason you did not us a blue filter in the B&W guide?

[William W]

. . . Is there a reason you did not us a blue filter in the B&W guide? . . .

There is not a Blue “Contrast Filter” there are only four: Yellow; Orange; Red; and Green. The first chart is the set of all the “Contrast Filters” in that particular Canon camera.

The second chart is the set of TONING Filters. These Filters are not for Contrast but to “tone” (convert) the Monochrome BLACK AND WHITE JPEG into a Monochrome: Sepia; Blue; Purple and Green Image.

Monochrome means “one colour/hue” – not necessarily a “Black and White”.

The second set of Toning Filters seek to mimic the Darkroom Procedure “TONING” where the print (after development) was placed in a toning bath and the greys were “toned” to shades of a different colour, most commonly used was Sepia. Some of the other colours were quite dangerous procedures using baths containing cyanide.

That particular camera of mine allows for BOTH Contrast and Toning Filters to be used simultaneously; but I have not made a chart of all those combinations. The second chart is of the TONING Filters applied with NO Contrast Filter.

Toning can be accomplished digitally, in Post Production.

WW

[Sam W]

There is not a Blue “Contrast Filter” there are only four: Yellow; Orange; Red; and Green. The first chart is the set of all the “Contrast Filters” in that particular Canon camera.

The second chart is the set of TONING Filters. These Filters are not for Contrast but to “tone” (convert) the Monochrome BLACK AND WHITE JPEG into a Monochrome: Sepia; Blue; Purple and Green Image.

Monochrome means “one colour/hue” – not necessarily a “Black and White”.

The second set of Toning Filters seek to mimic the Darkroom Procedure “TONING” where the print (after development) was placed in a toning bath and the greys were “toned” to shades of a different colour, most commonly used was Sepia. Some of the other colours were quite dangerous procedures using baths containing cyanide.

That particular camera of mine allows for BOTH Contrast and Toning Filters to be used simultaneously; but I have not made a chart of all those combinations. The second chart is of the TONING Filters applied with NO Contrast Filter.

Toning can be accomplished digitally, in Post Production.

WW

William - thanks for the informative explanation. My question regarding the blue filter was based on Silver Efex having a blue filter in addition to the four you mentioned.

You know you are serious about photography when you use cyanide as part of your workflow.

Thanks for all of your help and time. Best regards, Sam

[DanK]

Sam,

Thinking more about this, I think the most essential thing relevant to filters is to understand the effects on the B&W conversion of darkening and lightening specific color channels. This leads me to emphasize even more my recommendation that you learn LR's functions first. Capture the images as raw files, retaining all the color information. Then take an image that has a lot of variation in color, hit the B&W conversion in the HSL panel, and start fiddling with the resulting conversion. You will see 8 sliders corresponding to different parts of the color range. You can darken or lighten any. Even more informative, use the targeted adjustment tool. You will see a target symbol at the top left of the HSL panel. Click on it, and the cursor becomes the targeted adjustment tool. place that over any part of the image, left click, and drag up (to lighten) or down (to darken). You will see one or more sliders move, depending on the mix of colors in the location you have selected.

This is in essence what filters do, but with far more flexibility. Once you fiddle a bit with this, you will begin to get the hang of it. For example, suppose you want to darken the sky, which is a common thing people did with a filter back in the old days. It's trivially easy. Just put the TAT on the sky and drag down to suit your taste.

LR will also allow you to do a lot with the tonal range, contrast, and clarity of the conversion. Even though SilverEfex adds capabilities and makes some things faster, there is a lot of overlap. For example, SilverEfex offers a bunch of presents to emulate B&W films. Look below the presets as you try them, and you will see that they are adjustments to the tone curve--something you can do in LR as well. This isn't an argument against SilverEfex, which I now use often. I'm just suggesting that to learn what is really going on with conversions, you may do better by focusing on LR's functions first.

Dan

[mknittle]

I have used a #29 deep red filter to darken blue skies and whiten clouds with good results.

[Mike Buckley]

Dan,

Your explanation of Lightroom's targeted adjustment tool shows how powerful and easy it is to use. Not being a Lightroom user, I was unaware of it.

However, I really don't think it matters whether one begins learning how to make conversions using Lightroom first or Silver Efex first. I think that decision has mostly to do with how a person's brain "works." Each program's user interface has capabilities the other program doesn't have. So, it doesn't make sense to me that everyone will come to an understanding of what is going on with conversions more easily using one program initially instead of using the other.

[DanK]

Dan,

Your explanation of Lightroom's targeted adjustment tool shows how powerful and easy it is to use. Not being a Lightroom user, I was unaware of it.

However, I really don't think it matters whether one begins learning how to make conversions using Lightroom first or Silver Efex first. I think that decision has mostly to do with how a person's brain "works." Each program's user interface has capabilities the other program doesn't have. So, it doesn't make sense to me that everyone will come to an understanding of what is going on with conversions more easily using one program initially instead of using the other.

Both have sliders for increasing or decreasing the luminance of color channels, which is the issue Sam raised by his question about filters. However, I believe (I may be wrong) that SilverEfex lacks the targeted adjustment tool, which is I think is useful for learning as well as editing, as it shows you the mix of color channels in any given area. And Sam is already using LR, so it is familiar to him. But in general, I agree that different people learn best with different software, and one could learn this from either one.

[William W]

. . . I think the most essential thing relevant to filters is to understand the effects on the B&W conversion of darkening and lightening specific color channels. This leads me to emphasize even more my recommendation that you learn LR's functions first. Capture the images as raw files, retaining all the color information. Then take an image that has a lot of variation in color, hit the B&W conversion in the HSL panel, and start fiddling with the resulting conversion. . . etc.

This is in essence what filters do, but with far more flexibility. . . etc

To Sam: +1. Playing with these, you will begin to "see" it.

***

I didn't know about the about the TAT functionality (i.e. the example you gave about the sky)
Thank you Dan.

WW

[doomed forever]

I'm a beginner in monochrome/B & W photography. I thought it might be fun to experiment with let's say a red filter to enhance contrast. However, I wonder if equally good contrast enhancements can be achieved during post-processing and I would thereby be just wasting money?

Well, back into analogue days it was a great add on accessoire, same as the yellow & green filter...but not nowadays into digital - you can do this effect for example way good with Nik Color Efex Pro, for instance...i am using that Plugin, which is nowadays into the Google Nik Collection for a bargain price, included. Also very good is Nik Silver Efex Pro, which to mention was the 1st b/w PS plugin only at the time being onto the market worldwide. Still love it. Google develops the Nik Collection even further always.

I do love b/w photography also way much more than color....but some things just don't work into monochrome...sad, but true.

The only filter you can't really mimic originally by software, is the Polarizer Filter...i prefer a good, real one from B&W or Hoya brand here onto my lenses, when i need it.

Besides others, i can't stand LR, i am fine with PS, and my Plugin Suite, or i do use some RAW converter like DarkTable or RAW Therapee, or others. That catalogue-everything feature drives me nuts from LR, also it does run hella slow on my self-build rig, it's old now, but CS6 PS runs way fine & fast, but LR is really a mess here, therefore i can't stand it, also the sluggish behaviour and interface dislike...but a personal preference. My box is currently a older Quadcore, and 16gig is still plenty enough RAM, never had a "out of memory" issue.

[William W]

The only filter you can't really mimic originally by software, is the Polarizer Filter...

. . . it is very difficult for Post Production Software to mimic the effects of Neutral Density Filters.

WW

[Manfred M]

. . . it is very difficult for Post Production Software to mimic the effects of Neutral Density Filters.

WW

Exactly! Certainly true for regular ND, and to a large extent it is also true for a GND, although a gradient can sometimes come close.